Canadians get snubbed

[Guest Peeves]

We were snubbed by Bush, now Obama, time we got new friends (?) as Harper seems to be doing with free trade missions and visits abroad. (?)

*Obama turned down the Keystone XL pipeline from Canada even though an exhaustive multi volume review of the project by the US State Dept.concluded it's potential environmental effect was largely benign." There would be no significant impact to most resources along the pipeline corridor."

Plans for a much needed new bridge between Windsor and Detroit were stymied by aggressive political lobbying.

Recent American tax policies are going after unpaid 'taxes' from lifelong Canadian citizens that were born in the USA and that never had a penny of US earnings.

Obama's recent " Buy American" provisions have raised their ugly head again after Canada fought tooth and nail for an exemption to the same politicking in his 2009 stimulus.

Then there's the hit on Canadians pocket books with a new $ 5.50 border crossing fee for Canadians traveling to the US by plane.

Ok Bush snubbed us too, but that was over Cretien's policies.

I think the USA is more our best neighbor than our best friend ...?

We need those Asian trading partners. Hey there's lots of markets for our oil eh!

BTW, wifey is in the USA buying some cheaper products at the mo.

Nice to have good neighbors even if they seem a bit jingoistic at times.

* Some info from MACKLEAN'S

[Canuckistani]

I don't think there's such a thing as best friends between nations. Each nation has its self interest at heart. We shouldn't whine when we don't like what the US does, just do whatever we can to promote our own self interest. The problem with Canada is we some whiners who are making out like bandits selling to the US, when the national interest may be taking a harder line, which hurts the whiners bottom line. We should do what's best for Canada as a whole. And learn how to use the US political system to our best advantage.

It's probably good we've been snubbed on Keystone. We should be selling our oil at higher prices to the Chinese, instead of a US market that's declined 14%. And better yet would be the govt "facilitating" (subsidies if necessary,but not necessarily subsidies) a pipeline to the east. Reduce us getting whipsawed by world oil prices, and reduce the effect of Dutch disease.

[Guest Peeves]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/parliament39/snub.html

Canada gets snubbed rather often by the USA's Potus past and present. Israel too. (Obama of late.) But there are many other political games played using a usually orchestrated or contrived snub.

Sometimes it's quite artful, other times simply wrong, as the worst personal as a Canadian politically offense taken by me was this one;

Charles de Gaulle: In 1967, the French president broke protocol in Quebec and uttered his famous rallying cry "Vive le Quebec libre!," enflaming separatism and drawing a rebuke from Pearson ("Canadians do not need to be liberated"). "Most of [de Gaulle's] officials disapproved of that and they made that very clear to their Canadian friends."

Bush pissed me off no end with his ommission of thanks to Canada after 911.

excerpt more at link.

After the horror and grief of the 9/11 attacks came a distinctively Canadian after-shock: The jolt of a seeming direct insult to Canada by the president of the United States.

Nine days after the attacks, president George W. Bush addressed both houses of Congress. The president opened with thanks to nations around the world:

“America will never forget the sounds of our national anthem playing at Buckingham Palace, on the streets of Paris and at Berlin’s Brandenburg Gate.” The president singled out South Korea, Egypt, Australia, Africa, Latin America, Pakistan, Israel, India, El Salvador, Iran, Mexico, Japan, and Britain for thanks, commendation or remembrance.

As Canadians watched, many wondered: El Salvador? Egypt? Iran? What about us?

By me, that's a snub!

More than 30,000 stranded American travelers found welcome in Canada after the terror attacks, 7,000 of them in one small city, Gander, N.L. As it was later observed by author Teri A. McIntyre:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/09/09/david-frum-why-bush-didnt-mention-canada-in-his-920-speech/

Still more at the link.

The art of the political snub

CBC News

There is an art to the political snub. Sometimes it's vocal, often it's silent, and it's always controversial.

Witness these recent "snubs."

When Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat died in 2004, most countries sent lower-level delegates to his funeral, fearing that they could offend Israeli or Palestinian leaders by sending in the higher ups. Canada sent Pierre Pettigrew to join the likes of Britain's Jack Straw.

When Prince Charles married Camilla Parker Bowles in 2005, the Queen decided not to attend the civil ceremony, a decision that was widely called a snub that signalled her disapproval of the nuptials.

When governor general Adrienne Clarkson declined to attend a memorial for Alberta's late lieutenant-governor Lois Hole because she was representing Canada abroad, critics labelled her decision as a snub.

And here's one snub for the ages. In 1994, Russia's Boris Yeltsin didn't bother to leave a plane to greet Ireland's leader Albert Reynolds after it landed. Reynolds, who was waiting for Yeltsin on the tarmac, cancelled a lavish reception and ended up settling for a meeting with the deputy Russian prime minister, who told him that Yeltsin was too tired and too ill to see him.

So is snub the right word to describe these actions or, in many cases, inactions? A dictionary definition says to snub is to "treat with disdain or contempt, especially by ignoring" and, alternately, "to check or reject or reject with a sharp rebuke or remark."

Posturing, or not?

So is it all bluster and posturing

[Guest Peeves]

I don't think there's such a thing as best friends between nations. Each nation has its self interest at heart. We shouldn't whine when we don't like what the US does, just do whatever we can to promote our own self interest. The problem with Canada is we some whiners who are making out like bandits selling to the US, when the national interest may be taking a harder line, which hurts the whiners bottom line. We should do what's best for Canada as a whole. And learn how to use the US political system to our best advantage.

It's probably good we've been snubbed on Keystone. We should be selling our oil at higher prices to the Chinese, instead of a US market that's declined 14%. And better yet would be the govt "facilitating" (subsidies if necessary,but not necessarily subsidies) a pipeline to the east. Reduce us getting whipsawed by world oil prices, and reduce the effect of Dutch disease.

I pretty much agree. However, a complaint isn't necessarily a whine.

BTW Keystone will happen, just after the political posturing for the election. Just too many jobs at stake and common sense business to go away.

[Canuckistani]

I pretty much agree. However, a complaint isn't necessarily a whine.

BTW Keystone will happen, just after the political posturing for the election. Just too many jobs at stake and common sense business to go away.

I agree with both points. Maybe change whine to hand wringing - ie not very helpful.

But we shouldn't make Keystone the focus and then sit back and think we're golden. The IEPP report that found some Dutch disease in Canada said the way to deal with it is for govt to use some of the extra tax income from resource sales to support Canadian Manufacturing (not subsidize). But maybe a real good use of some of that money would be to build that eastern pipeline.

[bush_cheney2004]

We were snubbed by Bush, now Obama, time we got new friends (?) as Harper seems to be doing with free trade missions and visits abroad. (?)

As described so well above, nation states do not have friends...they only have interests. "Anthropomorphizing" the relationship between Canada and the United States is quite silly. Canada is also not the "51st state" or "closest ally". I can assure you that what may feel like a "snub" on your end is mostly purposeful indifference from the USA.

[Guest Peeves]

As described so well above, nation states do not have friends...they only have interests. "Anthropomorphizing" the relationship between Canada and the United States is quite silly. Canada is also not the "51st state" or "closest ally". I can assure you that what may feel like a "snub" on your end is mostly purposeful indifference from the USA.

Israel's oldest and best friend is the USA.

That was then>>>?

srael is our best friend, says Bush

May 16, 2008

US President George Bush pledged America’s constant support as “Israel’s oldest and best friend in the world” on Wednesday during his keynote address to Shimon Peres’s President’s Conference in Jerusalem.

[Guest American Woman]

Israel is our best friend, says Bush

Actually, it appears as if he didn't say that.

US President George Bush pledged America’s constant support as “Israel’s oldest and best friend in the world” on Wednesday during his keynote address to Shimon Peres’s President’s Conference in Jerusalem.

Sounds as if he's saying that the U.S. is Israel's best friend, not that Israel is the U.S.'s best friend.

Canadian Foreign Minister John Baird said the same thing about Canada: "Israel has no greater friend than Canada." "I think the U.S. is a good friend, too. I like to think we are better. A stronger friend."

[Signals.Cpl]

As mentioned above, the US is looking after its own national interest, and we should be looking out for our own national interest.

[dre]

ROFLMAO. Oh oh, another "best friends" thread

[Guest American Woman]

As mentioned above, the US is looking after its own national interest, and we should be looking out for our own national interest.

As I've no doubt you are.

Edited May 22, 2012 by American Woman

[Signals.Cpl]

As I've no doubt you are.

Well most people don't see Canada as having National interest. For example, seeing as how we depend on the US economically and militarily it is a well established national interest to avoid antagonizing the US on purpose, disagreeing for legitimate reasons yes, but when its a national sport, and politicians engage in it I don't think many people know what Canada's national interests are.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Sounds as if he's saying that the U.S. is Israel's best friend, not that Israel is the U.S.'s best friend.

Right...an important distinction often lost in these recurring Canada's "best friend" or "best neighbour" threads.

[Moonlight Graham]

Canada and the US should go to war again. It would celebrate the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 in style! With ceremonial burning down of the White House and ceremonial indians running around cutting people's heads of. [/sarcasm]

[Guest Peeves]

Actually, it appears as if he didn't say that.

Sounds as if he's saying that the U.S. is Israel's best friend, not that Israel is the U.S.'s best friend.

Canadian Foreign Minister John Baird said the same thing about Canada: "Israel has no greater friend than Canada." "I think the U.S. is a good friend, too. I like to think we are better. A stronger friend."

You are right. I read it that way too.

[Guest Peeves]

Canada and the US should go to war again. It would celebrate the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 in style! With ceremonial burning down of the White House and ceremonial indians running around cutting people's heads of. [/sarcasm]

Indians cut off heads? I thought it was just scalps? Vlad the impaler cut off heads. Islamists cut off heads. Jews give them a trim.

Uh..Why are we talking heads?

I happen to think that the USA is Canada's best non Commonwealth friend. Quebec might be next...

[jbg]

BTW, wifey is in the USA buying some cheaper products at the mo.

Nice to have good neighbors even if they seem a bit jingoistic at times.

I hope you don't think I support his policies in this regard.

[jbg]

Canada and the US should go to war again. It would celebrate the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 in style! With ceremonial burning down of the White House and ceremonial indians running around cutting people's heads of. [/sarcasm]

Please do.

I'd rather have Harper than O'Bummer </sarcasm>

[bleeding heart]

We were snubbed by Bush, now Obama,

We were not snubbed either time. BC2004 suggested "purposeful indifference," which is not the same thing, and I believe he's probably correct.

Other times, Canada is undoubtedly met with non-purposeful indifference (which is to say: indifference). No big deal. Countries do as they must (well...let's say countries do as they will, rather.) With the case of Canada/US relations, it is rarely or never a serious problem, except as certain economic interests might get disputed, knocked about, or what have you. But I don't see that the US behaves worse in this regard than anyone else.

There's no such thing as a genuinely "honest broker" when we're talking about nation-states.

At any rate, it's not as if the Keystone issue places Canada unequivocally in the right and the US indisputably in the wrong.

Edited May 26, 2012 by bleeding heart

[dre]

We were not snubbed either time. BC2004 suggested "purposeful indifference," which is not the same thing, and I believe he's probably correct.

Other times, Canada is undoubtedly met with non-purposeful indifference (which is to say: indifference). No big deal. Countries do as they must (well...let's say countries do as they will, rather.) With the case of Canada/US relations, it is rarely or never a serious problem, except as certain economic interests might get disputed, knocked about, or what have you. But I don't see that the US behaves worse in this regard than anyone else.

There's no such thing as a genuinely "honest broker" when we're talking about nation-states.

At any rate, it's not as if the Keystone issue places Canada unequivocally in the right and the US indisputably in the wrong.

Keystone is a stupid idea anyways. The only sensible pipeline plan Iv heard is to build one to Ontaria where we have refining capacity but currently supply it with crude imported from Venezuela.

[Guest Peeves]

Keystone is a stupid idea anyways. The only sensible pipeline plan Iv heard is to build one to Ontaria where we have refining capacity but currently supply it with crude imported from Venezuela.

"Stupid idea" ? Never let the facts deter you from a position requiring the observation & argument clincher, (it's),"a stupid idea anyways."

[Guest Peeves]

I hope you don't think I support his policies in this regard.

I don't think he has policies, leastwise none he won't change if it'll get him votes...Sorta MCGuintyish that way.

[dre]

"Stupid idea" ? Never let the facts deter you from a position requiring the observation & argument clincher, (it's),"a stupid idea anyways."

I explained why its stupid. The proposal to build a pipeline to ontaria only costs about 20% more and gets the oil to where we need it and have refining capacity, and where we are currently have to import oil from Venezuela. And if there was still excess oil then we can ship it from there as well.

[Guest Peeves]

I explained why its stupid. The proposal to build a pipeline to ontaria only costs about 20% more and gets the oil to where we need it and have refining capacity, and where we are currently have to import oil from Venezuela. And if there was still excess oil then we can ship it from there as well.

Oh! Ok, I thought you had no reason.