Canada Needs an East-West Energy Grid

[maplesyrup]

Energy minister plugs national power grid

Trudeau had it right when he said Canada needs to diversify its trading partners. We need to work together as Canadians to protect our society. The more we can do together the better off we will be.

[August1991]

Trudeau had it right when he said Canada needs to diversify its trading partners.

Who should we sell power to? Greenland?

From the Toronto Star article:

Canada should consider building a multi-billion-dollar, coast-to-coast electricity transmission grid to give the country a more secure source of clean electricity, says Ontario Energy Minister Dwight Duncan.

Duncan is clueless, both technically and politically. Our energy grid splits at Manitoba/Ontario for demographics and then makes a huge gap for Quebec's hydro-based system which the US/Ontario sensibly exclude from their grid.

Rather, Canada needs a federally-operated national transportation grid. (This idea is sellable.)

The Feds should build/do maintenance on a four lane "Trans-Canada" interpreted as any route between "major" population centres. Let the Feds help out cities by paying for the expressways. (Put them underground.)

I think federal encroachment into highways is Constitutional. Watch Quebec's nationalists argue!

Last point. Make them all toll highways using the technology of the 407 in Toronto. That is: free in off-peak hours but pricey at 5 pm on a Thursday. Split revenues with the cities/provinces.

The US Interstate is a 1950s marvel. Toronto's 407 is 2000s cutting edge. (Give Bob Rae credit.)

[kimmy]

An east-west grid should also dampen power price increases in Ontario, Duncan said. Currently, when Ontario needs to import power, it must import the bulk of it from the U.S. at the prevailing price. Strong east-west connections would given Ontario a choice of suppliers when importing power and presumably a wider price selection.

translation:

We've been cheaping out on infrastructure for years, and it has come back to bite us in the ass, bigtime.

"My own inclination is as Canadians, we need to work together," he said.

translation:

"Please sell us cheap energy."

-kimmy

[kimmy]

Another reference to an "East-West power grid" in today's news.

Ontario has a "legitimate grievance" on immigration, McCallum conceeded, adding Prime Minister Paul Martin is prepared to give the province more money for that and other specific issues such as an East-West power grid.

CTV article on Ontario/Ottawa deal

Hokay. So. What's the idea here, anyway?

I don't know that us prairie-folk have any particular excess electrical capacity. And in particular I don't know that there's any exceptional "green" electrical generating capacity on the prairies. There are wind-farms, and east of Edmonton there's even a new project that quite literally turns bullshit into electricity, but these sources of green electricity are a drop in the bucket compared to the power needs of the region, let alone what Ontario needs. We're as dependent as fossil fuel as Ontario.

Our neighbors in BC, on the other hand, do have loads of green electricity to export. But why would they want to send it east when they're making a killing sending it south?

What's the thinking behind the talk of an east-west power grid?

-k

[Argus]

Energy minister plugs national power grid

Trudeau had it right when he said Canada needs to diversify its trading partners. We need to work together as Canadians to protect our society. The more we can do together the better off we will be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where do you think we're going to buy power from other than the US? Unless you want to run your "east-west" power grid all the way across the Atlantic.

[fellowtraveller]

Yeah, let's listen to some 30 year old ramblings from a PM who had no head at all for business, then invest a few dozen billion selling electricity to Japan. Maybe we could store it in batteries first and spare the ocean floor.?

[August1991]

What's the thinking behind the talk of an east-west power grid?

Well, we've got East-West pipelines for natural gas and oil. And the construction of an East-West railway is considered by some to be part of Canada's National Dream. The federal government maintains the East-West Trans-Canada Highway (and some Canadian families make it a point to drive to either end in the summer with kids in the back seat).

I guess this logic has been applied to an electricity grid. Maybe we should be happy that no one has yet suggested that we have an East West seaway system.

Yeah, let's listen to some 30 year old ramblings from a PM who had no head at all for business...

Trudeau's father was a self-made millionaire and Trudeau inherited his fortune. To Trudeau's credit, he didn't dissipate the inheritance. By all accounts, he was a shrewd investor with his own money.

[Bakunin]

i totally disagree with this idea.

It just smell too much protectionism... If we build an east-west line, the next thing we will know is that provinces generating electricity will be forced to sell it for a price lower than the free market...

Stephane dion, the environment and propagandist minister of the libranos, already said that he want that line to force the polluting province to close their polluting powerplant in exchange of electricity from the less poluting province.

[bigdude]

You would disagree with any progressive ideas that would make Canada work well!

[August1991]

You would disagree with any progressive ideas that would make Canada work well!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is now "progressive" to install wires to transmit "Canadian" electricity at great expense?

[Bakunin]

You would disagree with any progressive ideas that would make Canada work well!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think its the opposite , i disagree with ideas that could make this country relationship issues even worst.

[Pateris]

Currently, Alberta and BC have excess power generation capacity, and Alberta is building MORE. Almost all of the new power generation is coal fired, because that is the CHEAPEST source of new electrical power generation available.

So we can sell nice coal-fired electrical power to the Americans as soon as we finish building the power lines to Nevada. Why do we need this national power grid again?

[kimmy]

I guess this logic has been applied to an electricity grid.  Maybe we should be happy that no one has yet suggested that we have an East West seaway system.

You would disagree with any progressive ideas that would make Canada work well!

I think its the opposite , i disagree with ideas that could make this country relationship issues even worst.

Indeed. I wonder if what Mr McGuinty envisions is a new NEP-- a National Electricity Plan...

Although, I doubt the federal government would dare suggest anything that would mess with Quebec's lucrative power export biz. Paul Martin has shown testicles the size of raisins (metaphorically speaking ) when it comes to dealing with the provinces.

What I suspect would be more likely would be our friends in Manitoba slap together a bunch of coal-burning generating stations to take advantage of this east-west energy grid.

-k

[fellowtraveller]

Trudeau's father was a self-made millionaire and Trudeau inherited his fortune. To Trudeau's credit, he didn't dissipate the inheritance. By all accounts, he was a shrewd investor with his own money.

Imagine how well off we would have been had he been even a fraction as careful with our money.

[fellowtraveller]

What I suspect would be more likely would be our friends in Manitoba slap together a bunch of coal-burning generating stations to take advantage of this east-west energy grid.

I would encourage 'our friends' in Manitoba to undertake absolutely anything to reduce their chronic reliance on the federal teat. Good times in the socialist paradise, at our expense. The have-not provinces are now essentially Manitoba and the Maritimes.

Go figure.

[kimmy]

What I suspect would be more likely would be our friends in Manitoba slap together a bunch of coal-burning generating stations to take advantage of this east-west energy grid.

I would encourage 'our friends' in Manitoba to undertake absolutely anything to reduce their chronic reliance on the federal teat. Good times in the socialist paradise, at our expense. The have-not provinces are now essentially Manitoba and the Maritimes.

Go figure.

For sure. I just don't think it would exactly be "progressive." Moving all this coal-burning activity from Ontario to Manitoba would be progress for Ontario, I suppose (in a "Not-in-my-back-yard" sort of way, at least) but for Manitoba, it kind of looks more like the 1870s version of progress than the 2000 version of progress. ("Ok, so maybe we ARE content to be the hewers of wood and drawers of water ...and suppliers of watts... for Central Canada.")

-k