waldo Posted May 4, 2012 Report Posted May 4, 2012 Wind farms aren't the only thing blowing hot air huh! clearly... read your posts! Quote
socialist Posted May 25, 2012 Report Posted May 25, 2012 clearly... read your posts! you can't argue with deniers. the greedy capitalist western pis need to pay through their teeth to compensate africa for the damage done by the wests haphazard use of fossil fuels which is warmin the earth at an alarming rate. the pig capitalists dont care about the environment. they disgust me. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
socialist Posted May 25, 2012 Report Posted May 25, 2012 thank goodness al gore had the balls to produce a movie exposing what greedy pig capitalists are doing to our environment. global warming caused by human activity is a FACT. it should be a crime to think otherwise. how come some people don't give a rats ass about having a clean planet. maybe these greedy pigs should start studying social justice so we can all have equal goods and rights. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
GostHacked Posted May 26, 2012 Report Posted May 26, 2012 thank goodness al gore had the balls to produce a movie exposing what greedy pig capitalists are doing to our environment. global warming caused by human activity is a FACT. it should be a crime to think otherwise. how come some people don't give a rats ass about having a clean planet. maybe these greedy pigs should start studying social justice so we can all have equal goods and rights. Clean planet yes I agree. But you are buying into the CO2 portion of that problem, then you are not going to get to the root cause of the pollution and miss all the other pollution that has an immediate and large impact on the environment. Corporations can keep polluting as long as they keep paying, simple as that. You as the end user are being targeted from every angle on how to be green. So much that the power company will control your appliances for you (smart grids, smart meters) ... does nothing to alleviate the problem. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted May 26, 2012 Report Posted May 26, 2012 the pig capitalists dont care about the environment. Hi Socialist - please be careful not to insult people... 'pig capitalists' may be a type of capitalist, or a general insult on capitalists, not sure... In any case, we strive to make this board about the argument, not about the people. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Argus Posted May 26, 2012 Report Posted May 26, 2012 thank goodness al gore had the balls to produce a movie exposing what greedy pig capitalists are doing to our environment. global warming caused by human activity is a FACT. it should be a crime to think otherwise. how come some people don't give a rats ass about having a clean planet. maybe these greedy pigs should start studying social justice so we can all have equal goods and rights. Maybe the more credulous among us, who believe whatever fictitious arguments are put forth in hack movies, should examine the record and learn about all the factual errors (lies) in those movies before they start praising them. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted May 26, 2012 Report Posted May 26, 2012 Maybe the more credulous among us, who believe whatever fictitious arguments are put forth in hack movies, should examine the record and learn about all the factual errors (lies) in those movies before they start praising them. I think that's definitely a good idea. We should also count the mistakes. The handful from that movie won't compare to the ones submitted by British tabloids, Fox news, and the galaxy of bloggers and YouTube artistes who retransmit the same mistakes over and over and over again.... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Wild Bill Posted May 26, 2012 Report Posted May 26, 2012 you can't argue with deniers. the greedy capitalist western pis need to pay through their teeth to compensate africa for the damage done by the wests haphazard use of fossil fuels which is warmin the earth at an alarming rate. the pig capitalists dont care about the environment. they disgust me. Compensate Africa? Would it not be more efficient to simply pile up the donations and set fire to them? It would save a lot of time, considering that Africa has always just blown the money on corruption and arms. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
socialist Posted May 27, 2012 Report Posted May 27, 2012 Compensate Africa? Would it not be more efficient to simply pile up the donations and set fire to them? It would save a lot of time, considering that Africa has always just blown the money on corruption and arms. western greed and carless use of fossil fuels is why africans cant plant crops. there is corruption everywhere not just africa. why should the wests pollution keep people poor. huh? Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
dre Posted May 27, 2012 Report Posted May 27, 2012 western greed and carless use of fossil fuels is why africans cant plant crops. there is corruption everywhere not just africa. why should the wests pollution keep people poor. huh? Actually our fake free trade with gigantic agricultural subsidies have more to do with that than pollution. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Guest Peeves Posted May 29, 2012 Report Posted May 29, 2012 western greed and carless use of fossil fuels is why africans cant plant crops. there is corruption everywhere not just africa. why should the wests pollution keep people poor. huh? Good point.The East's oil production too. East and West bad. South and North good. Glad we cleared that up. Quote
Wild Bill Posted May 29, 2012 Report Posted May 29, 2012 western greed and carless use of fossil fuels is why africans cant plant crops. there is corruption everywhere not just africa. why should the wests pollution keep people poor. huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah! Tell that to the Tutsi in Rwanda! Next you will tell me that Toronto Mayor Rob Ford was responsible for that massacre... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
waldo Posted May 30, 2012 Report Posted May 30, 2012 Yeah, yeah, yeah! Tell that to the Tutsi in Rwanda!Next you will tell me that Toronto Mayor Rob Ford was responsible for that massacre... yours is a desperate... callous... reply. Your Rwanda/Ford reach has nothing to do with the heightened famine/devastation in Eastern Africa. As MLW member 'dre' highlights, there are a multitude of causes - your belittling the impacts to presume to avoid even acknowledging a partial influence of climate change induced drought is should be beneath you. The long-standing 6-7 year drought cycle has now been replaced with a yearly, bi-yearly cycle... meteorological data confirm the significant post-1960 mean annual temperature increases, confirm the frequency of hot days, confirm the post-1980 rainfall decreases. The shyte-load of related East African famine causes... sits upon a climate change induced drought foundation... regardless of your Rwanda/Ford distracting nonsense! Quote
Wild Bill Posted May 31, 2012 Report Posted May 31, 2012 yours is a desperate... callous... reply. Your Rwanda/Ford reach has nothing to do with the heightened famine/devastation in Eastern Africa. As MLW member 'dre' highlights, there are a multitude of causes - your belittling the impacts to presume to avoid even acknowledging a partial influence of climate change induced drought is should be beneath you. The long-standing 6-7 year drought cycle has now been replaced with a yearly, bi-yearly cycle... meteorological data confirm the significant post-1960 mean annual temperature increases, confirm the frequency of hot days, confirm the post-1980 rainfall decreases. The shyte-load of related East African famine causes... sits upon a climate change induced drought foundation... regardless of your Rwanda/Ford distracting nonsense! Waldo, it is common knowledge that too many African governments have used foreign aid to buy guns, which have ended up in the slaughter of millions. To focus on never-ending academic climate change arguments instead of the deaths of so many innocents seems far more callous to me. The Rwanda massacres should never have been allowed to happen. What ever happened to "Never Again!"? I guess we all have our own priorities. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
waldo Posted May 31, 2012 Report Posted May 31, 2012 WB - in related Rwanda genocide discussion, I've been vocal in expressing where I personally lay principal fault; which, again, has nothing to do with the focal point of where East African drought/famine is centered - in the 'Horn of Africa' countries of Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Sudan... extending into Uganda & Kenya. as for your expressed prioritization, dismissing climate change as a contributing factor is not factual. Quote
Wild Bill Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) WB - in related Rwanda genocide discussion, I've been vocal in expressing where I personally lay principal fault; which, again, has nothing to do with the focal point of where East African drought/famine is centered - in the 'Horn of Africa' countries of Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Sudan... extending into Uganda & Kenya. as for your expressed prioritization, dismissing climate change as a contributing factor is not factual. Please show me where in my post I even referred to climate change at all! I simply was commenting on the futility of giving more aid money to a continent rife with corrupt, militaristic governments. A despot is a despot, rain or shine. Giving them more money is hardly a positive solution. Edited June 1, 2012 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
waldo Posted June 1, 2012 Report Posted June 1, 2012 Please show me where in my post I even referred to climate change at all! WB, your reply was to someone emphasizing the impact of climate change on drought/famine... if your intent wasn't to dispute climate change as a factor (principal or secondary)... I humbly offer my apology. Quote
Wild Bill Posted June 2, 2012 Report Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) WB, your reply was to someone emphasizing the impact of climate change on drought/famine... if your intent wasn't to dispute climate change as a factor (principal or secondary)... I humbly offer my apology. No need to be humble, Waldo! In the heat of debate things often get confused. Socialist seemed to be saying that the West had destroyed the climate in Africa with their rampant capitalism and therefore should give them compensation. I was pointing out that giving them anything is a waste of time for ANY goal! Socialist seems to blame capitalism for everything including rainy days. Anyone who has studied the history of Africa can clearly see that it is not that simple. It's a historical fact that many African tribal chiefs sold their own people into slavery. I'm not trying to say that historically there never were abuses from western countries, or that climate change has not caused droughts in Africa. Still, those are separate issues. One can agree the climate is changing yet have a difference of opinion if it is caused solely or mainly by industrialization. To deny the power of Mother Nature herself has always seemed arrogant in the extreme to me! Africans have caused some of their own problems, as with deforestation changing local climates. I feel Socialist is just harping on one note, to the point perhaps of becoming unrealistic. This is not a useful approach to solve any problems. Edited June 2, 2012 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Jack Weber Posted June 3, 2012 Report Posted June 3, 2012 WB - in related Rwanda genocide discussion, I've been vocal in expressing where I personally lay principal fault; which, again, has nothing to do with the focal point of where East African drought/famine is centered - in the 'Horn of Africa' countries of Somalia, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Sudan... extending into Uganda & Kenya. as for your expressed prioritization, dismissing climate change as a contributing factor is not factual. Having been on the continent more than a few times,climate change might be a factor...That climate change is most likely exacerbated by the advancing Sahara Southward... It is also historically instructive to note that famine isn't an uncommon thing in that region,and in 1985,was a generally "man made" famine... I point to the exploits of one Col. Mengistu in Ethiopia and the historical nature of "man made" famine as the chosen mass motivator of Marxists... See: The Holomodor and Chairman Mao's "Great Leap Forward".... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
waldo Posted June 3, 2012 Report Posted June 3, 2012 Having been on the continent more than a few times,climate change might be a factor...That climate change is most likely exacerbated by the advancing Sahara Southward...It is also historically instructive to note that famine isn't an uncommon thing in that region,and in 1985,was a generally "man made" famine... the exacerbarator... or the exacerbaratee? In any case I earlier referenced the key change in what had been the more typical drought/famine cycle: a shift from a 6-7 year happening to a, now, regular yearly or bi-yearly event. have you heard of the 'Great Green Wall'? Appears to be making inroads in Senegal... the chances for success across 11 other countries??? Quote
dre Posted June 4, 2012 Report Posted June 4, 2012 Please show me where in my post I even referred to climate change at all! I simply was commenting on the futility of giving more aid money to a continent rife with corrupt, militaristic governments. A despot is a despot, rain or shine. Giving them more money is hardly a positive solution. Why are we doing that with China then? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Wild Bill Posted June 5, 2012 Report Posted June 5, 2012 Why are we doing that with China then? I dunno, Dre! Greed, I guess. I have never liked the idea of dealing with China. I just can't get that picture of that brave young man in front of the tank in Tiamanmen Square out of my head... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Jack Weber Posted June 22, 2012 Report Posted June 22, 2012 the exacerbarator... or the exacerbaratee? In any case I earlier referenced the key change in what had been the more typical drought/famine cycle: a shift from a 6-7 year happening to a, now, regular yearly or bi-yearly event. have you heard of the 'Great Green Wall'? Appears to be making inroads in Senegal... the chances for success across 11 other countries??? Interesting... I'm not surprised that this is working in Senegal.Although arid it's not exactly dessertified and,in fact,gets a fair amount of precipitation based on it's geographical location.Count me as a sceptic on the total success of a project like this because of the vast difference in Senegal and....say...Niger... Nevermind the fact that Niger is landlocked but many of the inhabitants (like the Tuareg tribe) are nomadic.I'm not certain they're sticking around in any one place too long to plant trees,even though,it's probably a good idea!Add in the political unrest in places like Mali,Guinea,Northern Nigeria,Chad,Sudan,Ethiopia,Eritrea,and Somalia PLUS the massive difference in ethnicity across that vast of a region....And it becomes a daunting task! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Pliny Posted July 14, 2012 Report Posted July 14, 2012 A great environmental improvement from oil. Not as efficient producing power but just as environmentally destructive. Where do we go from here, waldo? Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
waldo Posted July 14, 2012 Report Posted July 14, 2012 A great environmental improvement from oil. Not as efficient producing power but just as environmentally destructive. Where do we go from here, waldo? from here... first, we acknowledge your hyper-hyperbole; we then proceed to show the fallacy of your narrative... - from the National Academies (National Research Council - 2007): Environmental Impacts of Wind-Energy Projects Collisions with buildings kill 97 to 976 million birds annually; collisions with high-tension lines kill at least 130 million birds, perhaps more than one billion; collisions with communications towers kill between 4 and 5 million based on “conservative estimates,” but could be as high as 50 million; cars may kill 80 million birds per year; and collisions with wind turbines killed an estimated at 20,000 to 37,000 birds per year in 2003, with all but 9,200 of those deaths occurring in California. Toxic chemicals, including pesticides, kill more than 72 million birds each year, while domestic cats are estimated to kill hundreds of millions of songbirds and other species each year. Erickson et al. (2005) estimate that total cumulative bird mortality in the United States “may easily approach 1 billion birds per year.” Clearly, bird deaths caused by wind turbines are a minute fraction of the total anthropogenic bird deaths—less than 0.003% in 2003 based on the estimates of Erickson et al. (2005). then we close out by challenging you to carry your false narrative further; most particularly, to have you continue to play on it by drawing our a comparison between wind-related bird deaths and the threat of climate change to bird species. Quote
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