NDP Horvath's “tax the rich” proposal.

Fletch 27 · May 2, 2012

I couldnt care less! You are correct!

Stay on point here will you? We are talking about the waste and fraud in the Ontario Liberal Government.. Sheesh..

You're wealthy, and yet you don't use a free spell checker, so there must be other reason for the your/you're lapse. Like - you don't care how your writing comes across...

Michael Hardner · May 2, 2012

Stay on point here will you? We are talking about the waste and fraud in the Ontario Liberal Government.. Sheesh..

Yes, and I pointed out that saying that the $250K jobs will be leaving begs some questions, and that tech jobs don't make that unless they're executives. You responded that you make about that much, in tech I assume, and I asked what you do for a living.

What's the answer ?

Fletch 27 · May 2, 2012

Im a technical representative for a number of large semiconductor lines.. (a "Semiconductor" to the "layperson".. is what's also known as a "microchip".. to the layperson of coarse...) Im not an exec,, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn.

And my decision to move out of Ontario is based 100% on the idiotic actions of Dalton and Horvath in the past few weeks.. Ontario is headed into the dumpster faster than anticipated.. Im taking my $104K (I cant believe i forked over that much in tax for such a crappy miss-managed province)..in taxes with me. I will gladly hand it over to another province other than Ontario..

Yes, and I pointed out that saying that the $250K jobs will be leaving begs some questions, and that tech jobs don't make that unless they're executives. You responded that you make about that much, in tech I assume, and I asked what you do for a living.

What's the answer ?

Edited May 2, 2012 by Fletch 27

bleeding heart · May 2, 2012

Im a technical representative for a number of large semiconductor lines.. (a "Semiconductor" to the "layperson".. Is what's also know as a "microchip".. to the layperson of coarse...) Im not an exec,, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn.

And my decision to move out of Ontario is based 100% on the idiotic actions of Dalton and Horvath in the past few weeks.. Ontario is headed into the dumpster faster than anticipated.. Im taking my $104K (I cant believe i forked over that much in tax for such a crappy miss-managed province)..in taxes with me. I will gladly hand it over to another province other than Ontario..

And I'm sure Ontario will consider you sorely missed.....

Fletch 27 · May 2, 2012

Awww shucks, Ontario really shouldnt... I wont miss it at all!

And I'm sure Ontario will consider you sorely missed.....

bleeding heart · May 2, 2012

Awww shucks, Ontario really shouldnt... I wont miss it at all!

So, it's a win-win, for both you and the "suckers."

Michael Hardner · May 2, 2012

Im a technical representative for a number of large semiconductor lines.. (a "Semiconductor" to the "layperson".. is what's also known as a "microchip".. to the layperson of coarse...) Im not an exec,, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn.

IOW you are a sales person.

And my decision to move out of Ontario is based 100% on the idiotic actions of Dalton and Horvath in the past few weeks.. Ontario is headed into the dumpster faster than anticipated.. Im taking my $104K (I cant believe i forked over that much in tax for such a crappy miss-managed province)..in taxes with me. I will gladly hand it over to another province other than Ontario..

Did you resign ? Did you transfer ? In any case, the "work" is not going anywhere. There will still be a territory behind you when you go, and dozens of sales types lined up to take the big paycheque.

Good luck selling spurs and outhouse doors out west, by the way...

Topaz · May 2, 2012

Could growing flowers like they do in Holland and now if Germany, make in Canada or Nprth America. I would think it would cut the cost here but here's some slide pictures of now Germany growing tulips, notice the wind turbines in the background. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/photos/tulips-bloom-in-germany-slideshow/#crsl=%252Fphotos%252Ftulips-bloom-in-germany-slideshow%252Ftulip-fields-blossom-near-magdeburg-20120422-081631-770.html

May 2, 2012

Awww shucks, Ontario really shouldnt... I wont miss it at all!

I'll miss you, you see the problem, many don't. They think programs coming from government are funded by Santa, not the tax payers, most of whom don't have cushy high paying public service unionized jobs.

Bonam · May 2, 2012

IOW you are a sales person.

Not that I know anything about Fletch here, but a "technical representative" for a semiconductor company is a lot more than a salesperson. They have to have a deep understanding of the electronics involved, the applications, and how to design novel uses of their circuits. As an engineer at a startup, I've spoken with "salespeople" at semiconductor companies on multiple occassions, and they are worthless and don't know anything useful. I've also spoken to their engineers charged with dealing with customers (i.e. technical representatives) and these people can often be vastly knowledgeable and helpful.

There's usually only a handful of individuals at any given company that have a combination of the two skillsets of being deeply knowledgeable about the technical/engineering aspects of a company's product line as well as able to competently interact with customers. And, these individuals can bring huge value to their company. For example, at my company, we often do innovative designs, putting circuit components to uses outside of what is generally discussed in their datasheets, and being able to talk to a competent technical representative of the manufacturer can sometimes be the #1 consideration in what company's products we choose to work with.

So no, if Fletch is what he claims to be, he can't be replaced by a run of the mill salesperson.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Bonam

Michael Hardner · May 3, 2012

So no, if Fletch is what he claims to be, he can't be replaced by a run of the mill salesperson.

How many semiconductor companies are there in Canada ?

You make some good points, but I stand on my point that most people have to sit and take the tax hike.

Bonam · May 3, 2012

How many semiconductor companies are there in Canada ?

You make some good points, but I stand on my point that most people have to sit and take the tax hike.

I tend to disagree. Almost anyone, whether poor, middle class, or wealthy, can just take off and go elsewhere. It is mostly emotional and family ties that restrict mobility, not economic ones. If anything, it is (economically) easiest for the wealthy to move. During times of economic growth, someone with a valuable skillset can find a job in another province in a matter of a few weeks of casual job searching. This may be more difficult during recessions, but relying on global economic malaise to keep people in your province seems like a losing strategy.

Now, I'm not against progressive taxation or anything, but I can certainly see how a combination of perceived government incompetence and wastefulness and increasing taxes could drive some number of mobile wealthy individuals to migrate to other jurisdictions.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Bonam

Martin Chriton · May 3, 2012

Im a technical representative for a number of large semiconductor lines.. (a "Semiconductor" to the "layperson".. is what's also known as a "microchip".. to the layperson of coarse...) Im not an exec,, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn.

Interesting, I also work for a semi-conductor company.

How many semiconductor companies are there in Canada ?

There a number with offices:

ATI - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Technologies (ATI was acquired by AMD but ATI office still in Canada)

Sandvine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandvine

Altera (not based in Canada but has offices) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altera

You make some good points, but I stand on my point that most people have to sit and take the tax hike.

In the short term raising taxes probably makes little impact as you say. However, over time it will continue to motivate people to move outside the country when they graduate or move for their next job.

In the long term, Canada should try and do more than just natural resources.

Some misc facts from my perspective:

1. If taxes were lowered in line with what I'm paying now in the US -- Canada would be getting 6-figures of taxes from me a year -- whereas now Canada gets *zero*. (I'm free to work remotely without even switching jobs -- I could move back today if I wanted).

2. When I graduated from Waterloo (comp eng) all the top students I knew moved out of the Country. For various reasons or others, but taxes were a big negative everyone always talked about.

3. The people that founded startups did so in the US.

4. Many folks in the tech industry make more than 250k if they're good. I've made more than that for a few years now (and I'm only 27). I have friends at Apple and Google that also make more than 250k.

5. For #2, everyone that left Canada kept their subsidized eduction but never had to pay anything back. Another reason to raise tuition and make loans easier -- at least Canada would be getting something and taxes would be (marginally) lower for those who remain. I graduated with money in the bank through a combination of internships and cheap tuition.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Martin Chriton

Michael Hardner · May 3, 2012

... relying on global economic malaise to keep people in your province seems like a losing strategy.

I agree. However, there is a set of carrots and sticks that are commonly used to push taxes down that need to be examined. Taxes can't be cut without services being cut, or there will be a structural deficit.

Now, I'm not against progressive taxation or anything, but I can certainly see how a combination of perceived government incompetence and wastefulness and increasing taxes could drive some number of mobile wealthy individuals to migrate to other jurisdictions.

You're persuading me. Let's see... how can we objectively look at statistics summarizing types of careers that earn $250K in salaries to investigate this question further ?

Michael Hardner · May 3, 2012

In the short term raising taxes probably makes little impact as you say. However, over time it will continue to motivate people to move outside the country when they graduate or move for their next job.

In the long term, Canada should try and do more than just natural resources.

Some misc facts from my perspective:

1. If taxes were lowered in line with what I'm paying now in the US -- Canada would be getting 6-figures of taxes from me a year -- whereas now Canada gets *zero*. (I'm free to work remotely without even switching jobs -- I could move back today if I wanted).

2. When I graduated from Waterloo (comp eng) all the top students I knew moved out of the Country. For various reasons or others, but taxes were a big negative everyone always talked about.

3. The people that founded startups did so in the US.

4. Many folks in the tech industry make more than 250k if they're good. I've made more than that for a few years now (and I'm only 27). I have friends at Apple and Google that also make more than 250k.

5. For #2, everyone that left Canada kept their subsidized eduction but never had to pay anything back. Another reason to raise tuition and make loans easier -- at least Canada would be getting something and taxes would be (marginally) lower for those who remain. I graduated with money in the bank through a combination of internships and cheap tuition.

A few questions - are we talking about $250K salary ? Are we talking about owning a company that makes that much ? I worked as a recruiter/headhunter and we only had executive positions that earned that much in salary.

It's important to differentiate between salary and corporate tax here.

Rick · May 3, 2012

Im a technical representative for a number of large semiconductor lines.. (a "Semiconductor" to the "layperson".. is what's also known as a "microchip".. to the layperson of coarse...) Im not an exec,, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn.

And my decision to move out of Ontario is based 100% on the idiotic actions of Dalton and Horvath in the past few weeks.. Ontario is headed into the dumpster faster than anticipated.. Im taking my $104K (I cant believe i forked over that much in tax for such a crappy miss-managed province)..in taxes with me. I will gladly hand it over to another province other than Ontario..

Good riddens to you then.

One less right winger living and breathing the air here is always a good thing

Now be a good sport and take Dalton with you...please?

mentalfloss · May 3, 2012

Im a technical representative for a number of large semiconductor lines.. (a "Semiconductor" to the "layperson".. is what's also known as a "microchip".. to the layperson of coarse...) Im not an exec,, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn.

We know what a semiconductor is, but I'm surprised you will decide to move over such a small increase. I guess your family really isn't worth the 2%. :lol:

jacee · May 3, 2012

We know what a semiconductor is, but I'm surprised you will decide to move over such a small increase. I guess your family really isn't worth the 2%.

But the new tax doesn't kick in until $500k, so I'm not suure that's even the issue for Fletch.

mentalfloss · May 3, 2012

But the new tax doesn't kick in until $500k, so I'm not suure that's even the issue for Fletch.

Ah yes, I forgot! :lol:

Fletch 27 · May 3, 2012

Oh No Jaycee,, The $500K is NOT an issue at all!!!! Please, read along slowly here... its the WASTE and FRAUD that is so pervasive in the Dalton regime.. Let me say this again,,, Im fine with taxes! 100% for them! I do enjoy my benefits of being a Canadian.. But i will NOT sit and watch my tax dollars go to waste...

My taxes going towards All-Day day care simply to add more teachers to his Voting pool? Nooo way in hell..

But the new tax doesn't kick in until $500k, so I'm not suure that's even the issue for Fletch.

Fletch 27 · May 3, 2012

Ummmmm no.. I will still work with all my customers in Toronto and Waterloo area but now I will fly in once every 2 weeks and support them face to face if required or via web-ex...

And yes, thats "salary".. and within our company, (smaller company of about 15 people) all make that or around that.. The guy that started the whole thing rolling was the guy located in Ottawa.. He moved out of Ontario 2-3 months ago due to the waste in the provincial Gov.. Im number 3 to be leaving to work "remotely" and im sure that i wount be the last.. So if we all make around 250K, thats about $310k tax dollars that wont be wasted here in Ontario..

And there is a limited amount of true semi-conductor companies in Ontario (Fabless Semi guys as only Gennum in Burlington has a true "fab"). So, there is Vixs, AMD, Intellon, TC-Applied, Not many...

I cant really consider Sandvine a semi company as they do traffic management pie-boxes and peer to peer elemens.. Great company however..

Ooo! And my house has an offer on it! Im so happy today!

IOW you are a sales person.

Did you resign ? Did you transfer ? In any case, the "work" is not going anywhere. There will still be a territory behind you when you go, and dozens of sales types lined up to take the big paycheque.

Good luck selling spurs and outhouse doors out west, by the way...

Michael Hardner · May 3, 2012

Ummmmm no.. I will still work with all my customers in Toronto and Waterloo area but now I will fly in once every 2 weeks and support them face to face if required or via web-ex...

Great situation. And almost nobody will flee the province in this way, as in work-from-home from another province.

Ooo! And my house has an offer on it! Im so happy today!

Great news. Sorry to see you go.

Michael Hardner · May 3, 2012

But the new tax doesn't kick in until $500k, so I'm not suure that's even the issue for Fletch.

Good point ! But he's generally worked up about the waste and apathy, as we all should be.

CPCFTW · May 3, 2012

Fletch is a great example of why Ontario is falling apart while other lower tax provinces are booming. Enjoy getting out of Dalton's hellhole Fletch, I wish I could go with you!

madmax · May 3, 2012

Im taking my $104K (I cant believe i forked over that much in tax for such a crappy miss-managed province)..in taxes with me. I will gladly hand it over to another province other than Ontario..

If you paid $104k in taxes, you paid 3X the amount of the 87Million Dollar company I worked for....