bleeding heart Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 True, but they're stationing their new nuclear sub on their east coast, not their west, so it sure isn't being bought because of Pakistan. I'm not the one suggesting a single-issue military policy. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
waldo Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 Russian government agrees to increase spending by 60 % link China defense budget is reported to increase by 7.5 % this year but by 2015 it is reported to almost double to 238 billion US. Shit, Canada does not even make the top 30 nations on Global Militarization index in fact it is not even listed. Canada's spending at the peak was 22.5 billion, and now is decreasing.... One has to at least ask the question who is going to attack China, Russia, no one, but yet their defense budget are sky rocketing why is that...why do these nations need such a huge military are they that afraid of the US, is the US threatening to strike...no, then why? given your genuine and respected input, I hesitate to suggest naivety on your part. Just the 2010 military spending... which effectively has been the state for years on end... where the U.S. military spending outstrips the combined spending of all nations - all nations! Note: Canada was #14 in military expenditures..... Quote
Argus Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 given your genuine and respected input, I hesitate to suggest naivety on your part. Just the 2010 military spending... which effectively has been the state for years on end... where the U.S. military spending outstrips the combined spending of all nations - all nations! Note: Canada was #14 in military expenditures..... The comparisons are awfully misleading. The bulk of the costs to the United States military, as well as Canada and other western militaries consist of salaries. We pay our military people enormous salaries and benefits in comparison to what most non-democratic or third-world nations pay theirs. We also pay those who work with the military, ie, civilian support people, clerks, repair people, truck drivers, medical people, etc. far and away more than the governments in China or Russia or India pay theirs. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 Just the 2010 military spending... which effectively has been the state for years on end... where the U.S. military spending outstrips the combined spending of all nations - all nations!The comparisons are awfully misleading. The bulk of the costs to the United States military, as well as Canada and other western militaries consist of salaries. ya, ya... the overpaid military grunts! Found a 2011 defense spending graphic... so you're saying the 2011 ~$600 billion difference in spending the U.S. holds over China is due to..... salaries! Quote
Wild Bill Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 ya, ya... the overpaid military grunts! Found a 2011 defense spending graphic... so you're saying the 2011 ~$600 billion difference in spending the U.S. holds over China is due to..... salaries! Dunno about the Yanks Waldo but as far as Canada is concerned, couldn't "catch up" be a factor? After all, we had several decades of neglect, to the point where Sea Kings fell out of the air and killed pilots. We also had stories of truck rims collapsing due to age and rust! If this is true, is it fair to place us #14 if it is not for new materiel but just long overdue tires and stuff? I wonder if old bullets work reliably. Could our guys find themselves in trouble due to old ammo? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Guest Derek L Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 ya, ya... the overpaid military grunts! Found a 2011 defense spending graphic... so you're saying the 2011 ~$600 billion difference in spending the U.S. holds over China is due to..... salaries! It clearly isn't: Here's the DoD breakdown: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_budget_detail_fy13bs12011n_3031_051#usgs302 Can you provide a breakdown of Chinese defence spending so we can better contrast the two? I’m having problems finding one.......... Quote
Guest Derek L Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 The comparisons are awfully misleading. The bulk of the costs to the United States military, as well as Canada and other western militaries consist of salaries. We pay our military people enormous salaries and benefits in comparison to what most non-democratic or third-world nations pay theirs. We also pay those who work with the military, ie, civilian support people, clerks, repair people, truck drivers, medical people, etc. far and away more than the governments in China or Russia or India pay theirs. One also has to factor in the Chinese military purchases arms from Chinese state owned companies……How does that reflect in the bookkeeping? Quote
Peter F Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 Some pretty odd arguments here. 1. Military spending = Threat (except for USofA) OR 2. Military spending = meaningless (except for everyone but USofA) Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
DogOnPorch Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 Erm...Not certain the Chinese are pinko's anymore... Carry on... Other than the special economic zones, how has Red China changed into something other than Red China? Revolution when I wasn't lookin'? They still do their Mao jackets up one latch at a time and the Politburo still meets in the Hall of People. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 You are such a baby. I showed you that stuff comes from China (I did not say how) and is in military hardware. You purchase more Chinese products than you actually think. Looks like my Dell laptop is made in .... dun dun duuuuuuun .. China. Hate on Clarke all you want, but it was the GAO which investigated and found the fake Chinese electronic components. I'm not disputing Red China's criminal activities in regards to spying. They're a pack of thieves. But, just because a former State Dept staffer with a private vested interests in security claims that the DOD COULD be overrun with infected cloned Chinese chips does not an F-35 electronics package make. You purchase more Chinese products than you actually think. Due to Chinese criminality, perhaps. But, unlike yourself and others, I look for that 'Made in China' stamp. Keep shopping Walmart! Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
waldo Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 Some pretty odd arguments here. 1. Military spending = Threat (except for USofA) OR 2. Military spending = meaningless (except for everyone but USofA) yes, the MLW war-hawks are twisting themselves inside-out! Quote
waldo Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 But, unlike yourself and others, I look for that 'Made in China' stamp. Keep shopping Walmart! illumination... it could be a powerful thing for you! Give it a try sometime, hey? Made in China takes on whole new meaning The Asian economic powerhouse’s ascent up the manufacturing value chain portends not only an evolutionary shift for the Chinese economy, but also serves as a massive threat to an already battered manufacturing sector in the West. High-end production remained the last bastion of manufacturing prowess for Europe and North America while Asia dominated as a low-cost producer. Now, factories in China like Celestica’s Suzhou facility are proving that China is ready to close the technology gap and produce sophisticated goods at a lower cost. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 illumination... it could be a powerful thing for you! Give it a try sometime, hey? Made in China takes on whole new meaning In a our society, you're free to support and do business with Communist China no matter the mobile execution vans as per the Nazis. If you can sleep at night selling off the tar sands to them, who cares? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
waldo Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 In a our society, you're free to support and do business with Communist China no matter the mobile execution vans as per the Nazis. If you can sleep at night selling off the tar sands to them, who cares? as he's in the news in recent days, in homage to one of your fellow gun/military loons, Ted Nugent... you gots the Cat Scratch Red Menace Fever... you gots it bad, real bad! Quote
Argus Posted April 18, 2012 Report Posted April 18, 2012 ya, ya... the overpaid military grunts! Found a 2011 defense spending graphic... so you're saying the 2011 ~$600 billion difference in spending the U.S. holds over China is due to..... salaries! You know, Waldo, your habit of mocking, braying laughter at everyone always brings to my mind this fat guy I know on my hockey team. He's an obnoxiously loud, rude, ignorant guy who sulks every time he loses and then wonders why no one wants to go out to bars with him. The basic pay of a US private is about $1900 month. The basic pay of a Chinese private is about $170. Multiply by 3 million for the number of US soldiers, sailors, airmen, coast guardsmen, reservists/national guardsmen on duty and civilian employees. Then add in the extremely expensive benefits they earn in the US. Top that up with the costs of all the contractors the US will hire to do all sorts of work for them, at US pay rates, and it goes a long way to explaining why the US budget is not an accurate depiction of the size or abilities of different world militaries. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
waldo Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 You know, Waldo, your habit of mocking, braying laughter at everyone always brings to my mind this fat guy I know on my hockey team. He's an obnoxiously loud, rude, ignorant guy who sulks every time he loses and then wonders why no one wants to go out to bars with him. not everyone Argus; you're just special! Let's do lunch, hey? The basic pay of a US private is about $1900 month. The basic pay of a Chinese private is about $170. Multiply by 3 million for the number of US soldiers, sailors, airmen, coast guardsmen, reservists/national guardsmen on duty and civilian employees. Then add in the extremely expensive benefits they earn in the US. Top that up with the costs of all the contractors the US will hire to do all sorts of work for them, at US pay rates, and it goes a long way to explaining why the US budget is not an accurate depiction of the size or abilities of different world militaries. MLW member 'Derek L' already did the leg work to show your silly attempt to distract over salaries... has no legs! Next... Quote
Argus Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) It clearly isn't: Here's the DoD breakdown: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_budget_detail_fy13bs12011n_3031_051#usgs302 Can you provide a breakdown of Chinese defence spending so we can better contrast the two? I’m having problems finding one.......... Actually, if you look at that you'll see most of the bigger numbers are related to personnel, especially pensions and health care for veterans. The biggest non-personnel costs are operations and maintenance. The cost of O&M for the army, navy and air force combined is about $114b. Meanwhile the cost for veterans is $165b. Add in the salary and benefits of 3 million employees. On top of that it's simply enormously cheaper to operate any sort of entity in China than in the United States. Everything you do and everything you buy and everyone you hire will be enormously cheaper. The difference in health care costs alone would be staggering. Edited April 19, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 MLW member 'Derek L' already did the leg work to show your silly attempt to distract over salaries... has no legs! Next... You'd look like less of an ass if you actually tried to read the cites people posted, and perhaps put a little more thought into your posts than which smiley to use. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest Derek L Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 not everyone Argus; you're just special! Let's do lunch, hey? MLW member 'Derek L' already did the leg work to show your silly attempt to distract over salaries... has no legs! Next... But we’re still waiting for you to provide us the Chinese information to help better contrast the two issues…. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 But we’re still waiting for you to provide us the Chinese information to help better contrast the two issues…. Let's see...according to my watch it is the Late Cenozoic era. How long do youz gots? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
cybercoma Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 Due to Chinese criminality, perhaps. But, unlike yourself and others, I look for that 'Made in China' stamp. Keep shopping Walmart!Not due to criminality, due to your own ignorance about how things are produced. Something can be assembled in one country, but have components Made in China. You would never know about those components because they only have to put the name of the country where it was assembled. You can look all you want for that Made in China tag, just because it's not there doesn't mean that the product was not assembled by components that were indeed Made in China. You can't escape it. It's impossible. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 Actually, if you look at that you'll see most of the bigger numbers are related to personnel, especially pensions and health care for veterans. The biggest non-personnel costs are operations and maintenance. The cost of O&M for the army, navy and air force combined is about $114b. Meanwhile the cost for veterans is $165b. Add in the salary and benefits of 3 million employees. On top of that it's simply enormously cheaper to operate any sort of entity in China than in the United States. Everything you do and everything you buy and everyone you hire will be enormously cheaper. The difference in health care costs alone would be staggering. I understand that. And when you add veterans benefits, healthcare etc the numbers add up rather quick, and the ratio of personal costs in most Western militaries is the same…….When most European nations stopped National Service/Conscription they found this out rather fast………. Still waiting for the numbers from Waldo to help better contrast the situation with the conscripted PLA…. Quote
waldo Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 But we’re still waiting for you to provide us the Chinese information to help better contrast the two issues…. c'mon, MLW member 'Argus' is completely distorting your link! (smiley added for emphasis, hey Argus!) Quote
waldo Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 But we’re still waiting for you to provide us the Chinese information to help better contrast the two issues…. it was your initiative... and now you want help with it? Quote
waldo Posted April 19, 2012 Report Posted April 19, 2012 Let's see...according to my watch it is the Late Cenozoic era. How long do youz gots? don't you have a Sopwith Camel video to post... or sumthin? Quote
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