waldo Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 Yet, the first Dutch F-35 is flying it's a shame LockMart didn't provide notice... didn't provide a standard 'first of' media release, hey? Is there a burgeoning problem concerning the Dutch participation in JSFail? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 it's a shame LockMart didn't provide notice... didn't provide a standard 'first of' media release, hey? Is there a burgeoning problem concerning the Dutch participation in JSFail? Well the first flight of a Dutch F-35 wouldn't seem to align with said contention Quote
waldo Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 Well the first flight of a Dutch F-35 wouldn't seem to align with said contention how desperate are you? The Dutch prepaid the bill... for a pre-production plane that can't do diddly! Why don't you dazzle us and tell us exactly what role the Dutch have in that plane at this stage? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 how desperate are you? The Dutch prepaid the bill... for a pre-production plane that can't do diddly! Why don't you dazzle us and tell us exactly what role the Dutch have in that plane at this stage? The training of the initial cadre of Dutch and partner nation's F-35 pilots……………So you’re sticking with another Dutch Government flogging this F-35 in the Buy & Sell come post September election? And you call me desperate, yet you inferred that the Dutch would pull out of the F-35 program, clearly that’s yet to have happened……..As I said, let me know when that changes Quote
waldo Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 And you call me desperate, yet you inferred that the Dutch would pull out of the F-35 program, clearly that’s yet to have happened……..As I said, let me know when that changes no - I've done nothing of the kind. I most certainly have offered comment on the status of voting within the Dutch Parliament... and the implications of a new government. Beyond that all I've done is continue to, apparently, "ruffle your (own chickenhawk) feathers", with repeated "tick-tock, tick-tock" references. It seems it has you quite unglued, hey? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 no - I've done nothing of the kind. I most certainly have offered comment on the status of voting within the Dutch Parliament... and the implications of a new government. Beyond that all I've done is continue to, apparently, "ruffle your (own chickenhawk) feathers", with repeated "tick-tock, tick-tock" references. It seems it has you quite unglued, hey? I'm unglued? The first Dutch F-35, despite your assertions from one month ago, is flying………..Pure Gold: Best of Waldo (in reference to Dutch F-35s Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:35 PM***bump*** (note: I initially failed to highlight the JSFail partner level attachments... the soon to bail Netherlands being a level 2 partner, only behind the UK in terms of initial/previous commitment - oh my!) Yet they’re maintaining their level 2 commitment to joint training of the partner’s pilots...... Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:45 PMtick tock, tick tock. the prevailing info I read states the current ruling government will be thrown out; replaced by a coalition. Could that change? Maybe. The U.S. Government/LockMart could also bring additional pressure to bear - you know, like the desperation moves made for Japan & Norway... ya, like that. even if the existing Dutch government were to prevail, the long-standing Defense Minister is on record, in recent days, as stating the intended F-35 procurement number will be much less than the original number; a number which was to simply be a straight replacement, one for one, of their current F-16s. That initial number of ~85 was whittled down to ~40... and with the Defense Minister's comments, what further reduction would result? Again, that presumes on the existing government retaining power... which is stated as most unlikely. Tick tock, tick tock. In a mater of ten minutes, over a month ago, you started laying the groundwork for your very own JSFailed prediction……..Let’s bookmark this page and return a month from now, after the election results are in, and the Dutch F-35’s are wearing RNLAF roundels...... Quote
waldo Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 I'm unglued? yes - yes, you are! You were provided with article links and quotes that detailed the majority vote of Dutch Parliamentarians that voted in favour of not continuing with JSFail... a vote taken with the full understanding of the significant costs to withdraw. You were advised that there is a strong likelihood the current ruling government will be defeated... the government that initiated Dutch participation in JSFail. A new government, either majority or coalition, one that, presumably, carries through the aforementioned vote against JSFail, would not continue Dutch participation in JSFail... unless, possibly, as I also stated, some form of incentives/pressures act to swing that vote/intention around... say from the U.S./LockMart. You know, we've seen that now... a few times now, with Norway, with Japan... you seem quite emboldened... why so? I continue to read polling predictions that have the current government unseated. In any case, recent Dutch governments have been coalition based where, traditionally, it can take up to 2-3 months for the coalitions to ultimately firm up. I'd suggest you put your chest-thumping on delay mode as it may take a while. Tick tock... tick tock! Quote
Guest Derek L Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 yes - yes, you are! You were provided with article links and quotes that detailed the majority vote of Dutch Parliamentarians that voted in favour of not continuing with JSFail... a vote taken with the full understanding of the significant costs to withdraw. You were advised that there is a strong likelihood the current ruling government will be defeated... the government that initiated Dutch participation in JSFail. A new government, either majority or coalition, one that, presumably, carries through the aforementioned vote against JSFail, would not continue Dutch participation in JSFail... unless, possibly, as I also stated, some form of incentives/pressures act to swing that vote/intention around... say from the U.S./LockMart. You know, we've seen that now... a few times now, with Norway, with Japan... you seem quite emboldened... why so? I continue to read polling predictions that have the current government unseated. In any case, recent Dutch governments have been coalition based where, traditionally, it can take up to 2-3 months for the coalitions to ultimately firm up. I'd suggest you put your chest-thumping on delay mode as it may take a while. Tick tock... tick tock! Are you now just making things up? Dutch participation within the JSF program began under their equivalent of the NDP or better put, Social Democrats in the 90s..... And your second point qualifying remark demonstrates, even sans the tin-foil (I’m sure Assange will pass on further info from the Ecuadorian embassy) that you won’t even commit to your own opinion……. Total Commitment: Regardless of who wins the Dutch election, the RNLAF will replace their F-16’s with the F-35. (Bookmark it, and revert back if required) Quote
waldo Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 And your second point qualifying remark demonstrates, even sans the tin-foil (I’m sure Assange will pass on further info from the Ecuadorian embassy) that you won’t even commit to your own opinion…….Total Commitment: Regardless of who wins the Dutch election, the RNLAF will replace their F-16’s with the F-35. (Bookmark it, and revert back if required) notwithstanding your boring sycophancy, and your incessant need for chest-thumping, my stated opinion, as it was, was a precise accounting of fact based upon movement/status/voting within the Dutch Parliament... an ultimate voting outcome that was only delayed by the oncoming election. You apparently know the fledgling status of the current government... that it isn't expected to retain it's own 'most number of seats', and that it's previous coalition partner(s) no longer offer it support (hence the election - duh!). Any protracted outcome of the vote to stop Dutch participation in JSFail will rely upon, obviously, the election results and formative coalition groupings... something I've clearly alluded to, something that I've referenced directly, now several times. I've offered my, uhhh... commitment, as you say, in the form of a timing countdown that clearly has you unnerved! Tick tock, tick tock! Quote
Wild Bill Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Look out!!!! It’s a conspiracy!!!!!!! Oh dear, Derek! You had to use the 'C' word! Now I can't help but start to wonder. If I were running a country that finds its rivals are building a plane much more advanced than anything I had at the moment, perhaps even more advanced than anything I have "coming down the pipe", would it not make sense to do whatever I could to slow down or perhaps even prevent the rival's plane from ever being deployed? Like I said, I can't help but wonder. There has never been a shortage of "useful idiots" on the left... Edited August 17, 2012 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Guest Derek L Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 Oh dear, Derek! You had to use the 'C' word! Now I can't help but start to wonder. If I were running a country that finds its rivals are building a plane much more advanced than anything I had at the moment, perhaps even more advanced than anything I have "coming down the pipe", would it not make sense to do whatever I could to slow down or perhaps even prevent the rival's plane from ever being deployed? Like I said, I can't help but wonder. There has never been a shortage of "useful idiots" on the left... I doubt said “useful idiots” are being spoon-fed by nation states, but Lockheed’s competitors that would have stood to gain if the F-35 had of been binned…………..And if Boeing had of won the JSF competition, we’d hear the same attacks launched by Lockheed. Quote
waldo Posted August 17, 2012 Report Posted August 17, 2012 Like I said, I can't help but wonder. There has never been a shortage of "useful idiots" on the left... excellent! We need to see the true MLW member, 'Wild Bill', come out a bit more often. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted September 14, 2012 Report Posted September 14, 2012 notwithstanding your boring sycophancy, and your incessant need for chest-thumping, my stated opinion, as it was, was a precise accounting of fact based upon movement/status/voting within the Dutch Parliament... an ultimate voting outcome that was only delayed by the oncoming election. You apparently know the fledgling status of the current government... that it isn't expected to retain it's own 'most number of seats', and that it's previous coalition partner(s) no longer offer it support (hence the election - duh!). Any protracted outcome of the vote to stop Dutch participation in JSFail will rely upon, obviously, the election results and formative coalition groupings... something I've clearly alluded to, something that I've referenced directly, now several times. I've offered my, uhhh... commitment, as you say, in the form of a timing countdown that clearly has you unnerved! Tick tock, tick tock! Tick...........Tock!!! The Dutch have offered their Prime Minister (not his coalition) a second mandate. In this sense, Mark Rutte joins a small group of centre-right politicians who have survived and won back-to-back elections in the crisis era: Frederik Reinfeld in Sweden; Donald Tusk in Poland; and Andrus Ansip in Estonia.At first glance, the Dutch result seems telling: Wilder’s extreme right and the far-left Socialist Party, which stagnated at around 10% after predictions that it could compete for the top spot, wanted the elections to be a referendum on Europe. Both parties voted against any of the eurozone rescue measures and are fiercely critical of the kind of deeper integration envisaged by EU leaders. But the hope of capitalizing on widespread disillusion, if not anger, with the European project turned out to be misguided. The Dutch electorate rejected populism and opted for reliability instead. And in other news: Pentagon officials likely to OK F-35 test plan on Friday: sources The test evaluation master plan, already approved by U.S. Navy and Air Force officials, maps out a schedule for testing that must be completed before the military can start using the new radar-evading fighter for military operations, said the sources, who were not authorized to speak publicly.Senior defense officials who served on the Defense Acquisition Board are expected to approve the document at a meeting scheduled for Friday, they said. The meeting is not intended to address any other significant program milestones. I shall provide the appropriate link once DoD/LockMart issue a press release……… Quote
waldo Posted September 14, 2012 Report Posted September 14, 2012 Tick...........Tock!!! huh! Wilders was a fringe player... his party wasn't expected to gain more seats than the traditional parties. If you'd like I'll take some time and explain coalition government to you. As I mentioned it will take several months to define the coalition and a policy map direction... most certainly, the anticipated coalition is expected to include at least 3 parties. The Liberals hold only a single seat lead on the Labour party... a third party is needed to ensure smooth passage of legislation through the Dutch Senate. Do you think the Liberal VVD will continue to push for the F-35... up against the Labour and whatever 3rd party ends up being a part of the coalition (both of which voted against continuing the program)? The articles I read speak to huge problems ahead for the new coalition; problems that reflect back on a decade of unstable coalition governments - the F-35 isn't even on the radar of what Dutch citizens want addressed. Do you think it realistic that the single seat minority Liberal VVD party will risk it's lead in a new coalition... and aggressively push/lobby for the F-35... taking a chance in toppling the coalition government? And in other news: Pentagon officials likely to OK F-35 test plan on Friday: sources I shall provide the appropriate link once DoD/LockMart issue a press release……… it's a shame your googly let you down! Sept 10 - More problems raised at Pentagon F-35 fighter review Senior Pentagon officials voiced frustration about the pace of Lockheed Martin Corp's development of the $396 billion F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program at a high-level review on Friday, according to several sources familiar with the program. Officials did not approve a comprehensive plan for operational testing of the F-35 program as had been expected. Quote
pete t teepee Posted September 15, 2012 Report Posted September 15, 2012 excellent! We need to see the true MLW member, 'Wild Bill', come out a bit more often. lmao I see I'm not the only comic relief lol Quote Oppenheimer was able to change more than the course of a war. He changed the entire course of human history. Is it wrong to hold on to that kind of hope? V: I have not come for what you hoped to do. I've come for what you did.
Wild Bill Posted September 15, 2012 Report Posted September 15, 2012 lmao I see I'm not the only comic relief lol Contrary to popular belief, Waldo DOES have a sense of humour! He just doesn't let it out very often. He reminds me very much of Harlan Ellison, and that's a compliment! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
waldo Posted September 22, 2012 Report Posted September 22, 2012 huh! Wilders was a fringe player... his party wasn't expected to gain more seats than the traditional parties. If you'd like I'll take some time and explain coalition government to you. As I mentioned it will take several months to define the coalition and a policy map direction... most certainly, the anticipated coalition is expected to include at least 3 parties. The Liberals hold only a single seat lead on the Labour party... a third party is needed to ensure smooth passage of legislation through the Dutch Senate. Do you think the Liberal VVD will continue to push for the F-35... up against the Labour and whatever 3rd party ends up being a part of the coalition (both of which voted against continuing the program)? The articles I read speak to huge problems ahead for the new coalition; problems that reflect back on a decade of unstable coalition governments - the F-35 isn't even on the radar of what Dutch citizens want addressed. Do you think it realistic that the single seat minority Liberal VVD party will risk it's lead in a new coalition... and aggressively push/lobby for the F-35... taking a chance in toppling the coalition government? it's a shame your googly let you down! Sept 10 - More problems raised at Pentagon F-35 fighter review Senior Pentagon officials voiced frustration about the pace of Lockheed Martin Corp's development of the $396 billion F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program at a high-level review on Friday, according to several sources familiar with the program. Officials did not approve a comprehensive plan for operational testing of the F-35 program as had been expected. hey now... I see the #1 LockMart fanboy is still around... talking up the JSFail - but, apparently, most selectively, not in this thread! in possibly other recent 'to be avoided news' critical of LockMart: Incoming F-35 acquisition chief blasts Lockheed Martin Pentagon stands by tough Joint Strike Fighter talk Quote
Guest Derek L Posted September 22, 2012 Report Posted September 22, 2012 [/indent] hey now... I see the #1 LockMart fanboy is still around... talking up the JSFail - but, apparently, most selectively, not in this thread! in possibly other recent 'to be avoided news' critical of LockMart: Incoming F-35 acquisition chief blasts Lockheed Martin Pentagon stands by tough Joint Strike Fighter talk So since General Bogdan has promised to “fix the JSF program”, I trust then you can get onboard? Quote
waldo Posted September 24, 2012 Report Posted September 24, 2012 So since General Bogdan has promised to fix the JSF program, I trust then you can get onboard? fix it? Are you finally willing to acknowledge... admit... there are problems/issues/concerns? hey now, what's this - no viable alternatives, hey? Don't bother to hype F-35 vapourware... Indian air force to buy French fighters The Indian air force is to finalize a contract to purchase 126 French Dassault Rafale jet fighters this year, in one of 2012's largest armaments purchases. The contract for the 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft is worth $20 billion Competition for the 126 MRCA IAF fighter aircraft contract was fierce. Besides Dassault, the Eurofighter Typhoon was short-listed, while other competitors included the Russian MiG 35, Swedish Saab Gripen and the American Boeing F/A-18 E/F and the Lockheed Martin F-16 combat jets. Quote
waldo Posted September 24, 2012 Report Posted September 24, 2012 F22s! Go Rmoney, go! Romney told a Virginia Beach, Va., television station he would not include the military in the spending cuts he is proposing to cut down the U.S. deficit. “Rather than completing nine ships per year, I’d move that up to 15. I’d also add F-22s to our Air Force fleet. And I’d add about 100,000 active duty personnel to our military team,” Romney said in the interview. “I think the idea of shrinking our military to try and get closer to balancing our budget is the wrong place to look.” There are also questions about whether further F-22 buys would affect the acquisition schedule for the F-35 Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 24, 2012 Report Posted September 24, 2012 F22s! Go Rmoney, go! "Romney told a Virginia Beach, Va., television station he would not include the military in the spending cuts he is proposing to cut down the U.S. deficit." Waldo, after seeing a news clip about tensions between Japan and China over some islands in undersea oil territory relating how Obama called for more American military presence in Asian waters, only to be told that he no longer has sufficient assests, I would expect the next American president to simply outsource their military to China, as they have done with their manufacturing industry! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
waldo Posted September 24, 2012 Report Posted September 24, 2012 Waldo, after seeing a news clip about tensions between Japan and China over some islands in undersea oil territory relating how Obama called for more American military presence in Asian waters, only to be told that he no longer has sufficient assests, I would expect the next American president to simply outsource their military to China, as they have done with their manufacturing industry! I'd be interested in you supplying the content/context of your described "news clip"... but hey, what would your King Canute do? Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 24, 2012 Report Posted September 24, 2012 I'd be interested in you supplying the content/context of your described "news clip"... but hey, what would your King Canute do? It was only a day or two ago, on a PBS 'Asian News Hour'. I'll see if I can dig up more of the same. I was being facetious towards the Americans, mainly. China is flexing its muscles against Japan. The USA is treaty bound to protect Japan. Yet when Obama calls for more naval power presence in Asian waters his admirals come back and tell him that they just don't have the available assets anymore! No doubt they were not so impolitic as to mention that it was politicians like Obama who cut those assets! It is a reality check for Uncle Sam. Actions have consequences and if you do not have the wit to see them in advance then you deserve what you get. You know I'm a great one for enjoying such situations! China is going to just up and take those islands because no one has the strength to oppose them. There will be moaning and whining at the UN and perhaps some here on MLW will call for Canada to save the day with our "soft power". It won't matter. China is taking those islands for the oil reserves because it can! America will not stop them because it can't! Ass, grass or gas. Nobody rides for free. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
waldo Posted September 24, 2012 Report Posted September 24, 2012 It was only a day or two ago, on a PBS 'Asian News Hour'. I'll see if I can dig up more of the same.I was being facetious towards the Americans, mainly. China is flexing its muscles against Japan. The USA is treaty bound to protect Japan. Yet when Obama calls for more naval power presence in Asian waters his admirals come back and tell him that they just don't have the available assets anymore! No doubt they were not so impolitic as to mention that it was politicians like Obama who cut those assets! I note/acknowledge your impreciseness. My understanding of the much vaunted "U.S. military deployment pivot to Asia", was it aligned with a 2020 timeline... shifting the current 50-50 Atlantic-Pacific split to one bringing a revised (by 2020) 60-40 split in favour of the Pacific. "Politicians... like Obama", hey? Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 24, 2012 Report Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) I note/acknowledge your impreciseness. My understanding of the much vaunted "U.S. military deployment pivot to Asia", was it aligned with a 2020 timeline... shifting the current 50-50 Atlantic-Pacific split to one bringing a revised (by 2020) 60-40 split in favour of the Pacific. "Politicians... like Obama", hey? You're right, Waldo! I remember the suggested split and the 2020 timeline. What I am finding frustrating is that although I distinctly remember hearing the reporter telling us how Obama's admirals told him they did not possess sufficient assets I can't google up a link to support this! What's more, the tone of the report had more to do with America's inability to honour its treaty obligation to Japan, which specifically lists the disputed islands. 2020 will be much too late to have any influence. As always today, things are "come as you are" engagements, all over in a few months or even weeks. The report of insufficient assets was fluffed out with the usual talk about America waging too many theatres at once, like Afghanistan, Iraq, and other areas. I admit I am not a close follower of America's power level but I always thought that there is a huge pile of mothballed ships and other materiel available. The real problem is calling up manpower. I would think that if an American president truly thought it were necessary he could re-activate assets and call up manpower relatively quickly. Perhaps it's a money thing? Anyhow, maybe its too recent for me to find on the Net, or its just my own googling skills. I'll keep trying whenever the mood strikes me. It couldn't be a cover-up conspiracy, could it? :lol: Edited September 24, 2012 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
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