Tory MP tells high schoolers they should carry guns

[Wilber]

To me it's kind of like saying the more vehicles we put on the road, the fewer traffic accidents we can expect to have. Doesn't compute.

[stopstaaron]

Are most people trained to be shot at and have no way to defend themselves?

More people with guns is not the answer to the USAs gun problems

[Guest Derek L]

To me it's kind of like saying the more vehicles we put on the road, the fewer traffic accidents we can expect to have. Doesn't compute.

But is that the case? Wouldn’t a more apt description be, the more unskilled or poorly instructed drivers we allow on the road, the greater the probability of accidents?

If you put yourself in the place of the students or staff, would you rather be armed or unarmed?

[Guest Manny]

Are most people trained to be shot at and have no way to defend themselves?

No, but we would all need that training, if every jodie bob had a gun. Otherwise, it's not a problem. It happens less frequently than people getting hit by cars, and although that too is a tragedy, it doesn't mean we all need to surround ourselves in armoured vehicles to protect from being hit. The whole notion of needing a weapon to defend ourselves is overblown. As is the notion that we live in dangerous times. Crime is not on the rise. Statistics show that violent crime is in decline. But this is just more of the conservative mantra that we need guns to protect ourselves and we need more jails. It seems to me that this is the politics of fear.

Funny thing is, the more guns we release into society, the more violent crime there's gonna be, and the more jails we'll need.

[Guest Derek L]

More people with guns is not the answer to the USAs gun problems

Why?

[stopstaaron]

But is that the case? Wouldn’t a more apt description be, the more unskilled or poorly instructed drivers we allow on the road, the greater the probability of accidents?

youll be arming "unskilled & poorly instructed people"

[stopstaaron]

If you put yourself in the place of the students or staff, would you rather be armed or unarmed?

I'd be just as worried about the person behind me or beside me who are packing heat than I would be the shooter

[stopstaaron]

Why?

Because I don't trust people know how to handle guns in situations where there is panic and confusion

What if I shoot the shooter then someone shoots me because they think I am the shooter?

[bush_cheney2004]

More people with guns is not the answer to the USAs gun problems

The USA doesn't have gun problems. The guns work as designed.

[Wilber]

But is that the case? Wouldn’t a more apt description be, the more unskilled or poorly instructed drivers we allow on the road, the greater the probability of accidents?

If you put yourself in the place of the students or staff, would you rather be armed or unarmed?

Don't put any vehicles on the road and there will be no accidents. Whether I was armed or not, I would not want to be surrounded by people who are armed, most of them strangers who I know nothing about.

[Guest Derek L]

No, but we would all need that training, if every jodie bob had a gun. Otherwise, it's not a problem. It happens less frequently than people getting hit by cars, and although that too is a tragedy, it doesn't mean we all need to surround ourselves in armoured vehicles to protect from being hit. The whole notion of needing a weapon to defend ourselves is overblown. As is the notion that we live in dangerous times. Crime is not on the rise. Statistics show that violent crime is in decline. But this is just more of the conservative mantra that we need guns to protect ourselves and we need more jails. It seems to me that this is the politics of fear.

Do you know how much the average RCMP/municipal police officer receive in firearm’s training? For the RCMP, it’s several weeks at Depot, then enough annually to maintain proficiency (usually several weekends a year)

There’s no reason private citizens couldn’t pay for similar instruction out of their own pocket and be required to have similar annual testing to acquire and maintain a concealed carry permit in Canada.

Funny thing is, the more guns we release into society, the more violent crime there's gonna be, and the more jails we'll need.

Bullshit......In Switzerland, there’s either/or a fully automatic rifle or semi auto pistol in near every home as a requirement of national conscription & military service……….The amount of guns in society is a mitigating factor, since “guns don’t kill people”……..

[cybercoma]

Or, if a student or staff member in the classroom had a concealed carry permit(difficult to obtain in California) and a handgun on their person, this tragedy could have been significantly reduced.

Obviously having concealed carry laws and not requiring a permit to buy handguns in California didn't help in this case.

[Guest Derek L]

Don't put any vehicles on the road and there will be no accidents. Whether I was armed or not, I would not want to be surrounded by people who are armed, most of them strangers who I know nothing about.

Do you not drive on public roads? I assume yes, do you know everything about your fellow motorists?

[Guest Derek L]

Obviously having concealed carry laws and not requiring a permit to buy handguns in California didn't help in this case.

How so? Did the killer have a concealed carry permit? Was his gun obtained legally?

[cybercoma]

Why is that?

I'll ignore the bat comment, since stopstaaron was referring to your comment about staff or students having a concealed handgun. The problem is that even those in the general public that go to their gun range and train on targets do not train in high-stress situations. Police train how to use their weapons under stressful conditions because it's not the same as standing at a range shooting at a piece of paper. Physiologically, your fine motor skills (required for getting the gun out of the holster and disengaging the safeties, as well as aiming) are flushed down the toilet as your heart rate triples or quadruples and the blood retreats from the surface of your skin. With people around you panicking and the stress of trying not to get shot yourself, very few people, especially those who haven't trained in high-stress conditions, could successfully use their weapon for defense in such a situation.

[cybercoma]

Most people aren’t trained? Concealed Carry permits are issued, depending on the State, either through the State Police or county Sherriff’s department, and again, depending on the State, there’s a prerequisite safety course required.

A safety course is not the same thing as training how to fire in a high-stress situation. Not even close.

[Wilber]

Do you not drive on public roads? I assume yes, do you know everything about your fellow motorists?

Yes I do, it is a risk I chose to take because I need a vehicle and my use for it has nothing to do with self defense. Sorry but I don't want to assume your risk. I don't want to have to pack a weapon to defend myself just because people like you want everyone to be packing them. It's that simple.

[cybercoma]

But is that the case? Wouldn’t a more apt description be, the more unskilled or poorly instructed drivers we allow on the road, the greater the probability of accidents?

If you put yourself in the place of the students or staff, would you rather be armed or unarmed?

Obviously, since you would never admit otherwise, you don't think so, but most people would not be at all comfortable going to a high school or working in a high school where all of the kids showed up day-to-day with guns on them.

[Guest Derek L]

I'll ignore the bat comment, since stopstaaron was referring to your comment about staff or students having a concealed handgun. The problem is that even those in the general public that go to their gun range and train on targets do not train in high-stress situations. Police train how to use their weapons under stressful conditions because it's not the same as standing at a range shooting at a piece of paper. Physiologically, your fine motor skills (required for getting the gun out of the holster and disengaging the safeties, as well as aiming) are flushed down the toilet as your heart rate triples or quadruples and the blood retreats from the surface of your skin. With people around you panicking and the stress of trying not to get shot yourself, very few people, especially those who haven't trained in high-stress conditions, could successfully use their weapon for defense in such a situation.

Again, that’s a BS straw man………In Canada, through your local gun club, you can compete in police shooting ( I use to), with real live police officers……..And if we allowed concealed carry in Canada, as I’ve stated numerous times, we could require to hold such a permit, mandatory involvement for citizens (paid out of pocket) in such programs………..

[Guest Derek L]

A safety course is not the same thing as training how to fire in a high-stress situation. Not even close.

You have such experience?

[Guest Derek L]

Yes I do, it is a risk I chose to take because I need a vehicle and my use for it has nothing to do with self defense. Sorry but I don't want to assume your risk. I don't want to have to pack a weapon to defend myself just because people like you want everyone to be packing them. It's that simple.

I've never said I wanted everyone packing......quite the opposite, many shouldn't even be allowed paint ball guns.

[Guest Derek L]

Obviously, since you would never admit otherwise, you don't think so, but most people would not be at all comfortable going to a high school or working in a high school where all of the kids showed up day-to-day with guns on them.

In Canada , high school students (12-18) can’t legally purchase or posses restricted firearms.

[cybercoma]

I'd be just as worried about the person behind me or beside me who are packing heat than I would be the shooter

Imagine a shooter walking into a classroom and 30 some odd students reacting by pulling out guns and shooting simultaneously. What a nightmare situation.

[Guest Derek L]

Imagine a shooter walking into a classroom and 30 some odd students reacting by pulling out guns and shooting simultaneously. What a nightmare situation.

Much better than 7 dead and three wounded......

[cybercoma]

How so? Did the killer have a concealed carry permit? Was his gun obtained legally?

People can get guns without permits and procure a concealed carry permit in California. They have the laws gun advocates here are pushing for and still no one stepped up and stopped this shooter.