Transgender Discrimination in Canada

[TimG]

Complete nonsense. I think you need to show how exactly a transgendered competitor takes away from the integrity of this T&A fest. Otherwise, its just the same old noise you're famous for.

Read my post: whether you like it or not the transgender process induces a 'yuck' response in many of the hetrosexual males who are the audiance for such things. Allowing transgender competitors DOES take away from the intergrity of the T&A fest from the perspective of the only people that matter: the audiance that actually watches these things. The opinion of people who would never watch a beauty contest if their life depended on it is not particularily relevant. Edited March 29, 2012 by TimG

[Shady]

Complete nonsense. I think you need to show how exactly a transgendered competitor takes away from the integrity of this T&A fest. Otherwise, its just the same old noise you're famous for.

Because they're transgendered and not naturally female. That's a fundamental change in the nature of the contest. How can you not see that?

[TimG]

Sorry, but it's about allowing transgendered people to compete, not announcing their transgendered status to the world. After all, they would be competing as women.

And how exactly is something like that going to stay secret? Allowing them to complete IS the same as announcing their transgendered status.

[Shady]

As you pointed out, since other forms of physical enhancement are allowed, the "women born" policy is wholly arbitrary, discriminatory and yes, bigoted.

So if they disallowed any sugery for the naturally born women as well, you'd cease your opposition? Anyways, it's true that women can have cosmetic surgery, but that surgery is based on the same female born composition. Where a transgendered individual brings biological differences that female born individuals do not.

[Black Dog]

And how exactly is something like that going to stay secret? Allowing them to complete IS the same as announcing their transgendered status.

It stays secret because they shouldn't ask the fucking question in the first place.

Dur.

[Black Dog]

Because they're transgendered and not naturally female. That's a fundamental change in the nature of the contest. How can you not see that?

Nope. They are women in every respect that matters for the purposes of the contest.

[Shady]

Nope. They are women in every respect that matters for the purposes of the contest.

That's not true.

[Black Dog]

So if they disallowed any sugery for the naturally born women as well, you'd cease your opposition? Anyways, it's true that women can have cosmetic surgery, but that surgery is based on the same female born composition. Where a transgendered individual brings biological differences that female born individuals do not.

Biological differences that are wholly irrelevant to the contest unless high jump and weightlifting are now part of the contest.

[Shady]

Biological differences that are wholly irrelevant to the contest unless high jump and weightlifting are now part of the contest.

That's not true. That may be your opinion however.

[TimG]

It stays secret because they shouldn't ask the fucking question in the first place.

Have you ever heard of something called Google? It is this really amazing search engine that can find answers to questions that people did not want to ask. It really makes no difference if they asked or not because the fact that a competitor is transgendered would become public knowledge and that would undermine the value of the business.

[Black Dog]

That's not true.

Prove otherwise.

[TimG]

Nope. They are women in every respect that matters for the purposes of the contest.

Do you watch beauty contests? If not your *opinion* on what matters and what does not matter is completely irrelevant. If the audiance cares it matters. Edited March 29, 2012 by TimG

[Black Dog]

Have you ever heard of something called Google? It is this really amazing search engine that can find answers to questions that people did not want to ask. It really makes no difference if they asked or not because the fact that a competitor is transgendered would become public knowledge and that would undermine the value of the business.

So they should discriminate because some sad shit might go around googling every contestant to see which one might be transgendered? That's the stupidest thing I've heard since stopstaaron's last post here.

[TimG]

So they should discriminate because some sad shit might go around googling every contestant to see which one might be transgendered? That's the stupidest thing I've heard since stopstaaron's last post here.

Businesses have to deal with reality. And the reality is someone would do that and it would damage the reputation of the contest in the eyes of the target audiance. As said above: your opinion means nothing because you are not the target audiance. Edited March 29, 2012 by TimG

[Shady]

Prove otherwise.

Now you're just denying science. Are you unaware that men have a naturally lower body fat percentage than women do? Do you think that might be an advantage in a beauty contest in which fitness and physical appearance is paramount? A transgendered individual will also never have to worry about getting their period during or around the time of a contest. So no worry about pain and cramping, and no worry of water retention, etc. Do you think that might be an advantage as well? Christ, read a science book once in your life.

[Shady]

The percentage of essential body fat for women is greater than that for men, due to the demands of childbearing and other hormonal functions. The percentage of essential fat is 3%–5% in men, and 8–12% in women

Link

In most women, various physical changes are brought about by natural fluctuations in hormone levels during the menstrual cycle, and by muscle contractions (menstrual cramping) involving the uterus that can precede or accompany menstruation. Women may notice water retention, changes in sex drive, fatigue, breast tenderness, or nausea.

Many women experience painful uterine cramps during menstruation.

Some women experience emotional disturbances associated with menstruation. These range from the irritability, to tiredness, or "weepiness" (i.e. easily-provoked tearfulness). A similar range of emotional effects and mood swings is associated with pregnancy.

Link

[Black Dog]

Now you're just denying science. Are you unaware that men have a naturally lower body fat percentage than women do? Do you think that might be an advantage in a beauty contest in which fitness and physical appearance is paramount? A transgendered individual will also never have to worry about getting their period during or around the time of a contest. So no worry about pain and cramping, and no worry of water retention, etc. Do you think that might be an advantage as well? Christ, read a science book once in your life.

Oh my god, this is hilarious. I'm getting told about science by someone who doesn't understand that the muscle mass difference between men and women is entirely due to their relative production of testosterone.

[stopstaaron]

It stays secret because they shouldn't ask the fucking question in the first place.

Dur.

How would it stay secret when she was posting blogs about being transgender in 2010?

[Black Dog]

How would it stay secret when she was posting blogs about being transgender in 2010?

That's her choice to make that information public, obviously. The pageant shouldn't be making that choice for them by asking.

[Black Dog]

Do you watch beauty contests? If not your *opinion* on what matters and what does not matter is completely irrelevant. If the audiance cares it matters.

So if the organizers felt the audience would be uncomfortable with, say, black contestants, you'd be okay with discriminating against them too?

[stopstaaron]

That's her choice to make that information public, obviously. The pageant shouldn't be making that choice for them by asking.

I'm not sure who you think you are but the owner of the pageant can do whatever the hell they want. This is a privately owned pageant. The owner is actually American billionaire Donald Trump. Voice your concerns to him. Call him a bigot for all I care. Your opinion means nothing here. Why don't you go set up a protest. You'd get more done that way.

[stopstaaron]

So if the organizers felt the audience would be uncomfortable with, say, black contestants, you'd be okay with discriminating against them too?

Now you're going off the deep end into absurdity land by turning this into an issue of race when in reality it is an issue of gender. The issue is this person was born a male and surgically and chemically altered themselves into what looks like a female. You cannot start comparing that to discrimination of races.

[Black Dog]

I'm not sure who you think you are but the owner of the pageant can do whatever the hell they want. This is a privately owned pageant. The owner is actually American billionaire Donald Trump.

So a privately owned business can do whatever it wants? If they decided that no gay or black contestants were allowed you'd be okay on that basis, then?

Voice your concerns to him. Call him a bigot for all I care. Your opinion means nothing here. Why don't you go set up a protest. You'd get more done that way.

What's the point of this exactly?

[Black Dog]

Now you're going off the deep end into absurdity land by turning this into an issue of race when in reality it is an issue of gender.

So what?

The issue is this person was born a male and surgically and chemically altered themselves into what looks like a female.

And?

You cannot start comparing that to discrimination of races.

We're talking about the same principles here.

[stopstaaron]

We're talking about the same principles here.

No. We. Are. Not.