Transgender Discrimination in Canada

[bush_cheney2004]

Nah. He won't win. And next time he enters this pageant he wob't get past the qualifying round

Trump might just put the fix in on this one, attracting much needed media attention to a dying franchise.

[Black Dog]

Name calling, the last refuge of a failed argument.

What's the failed argument? She may be genetically male, but identifies as female and has transitioned physically as much as possible. That's good enough for me.

[Guest American Woman]

One can change their outside appearance. But they can't change their DNA.

This is actually the first argument that makes sense to me.

[stopstaaron]

And I suppose you're proof that if you're born an jerk, you stay one.

I think you're being insanely too politically correct here.

[Bonam]

What's the failed argument? She may be genetically male, but identifies as female and has transitioned physically as much as possible. That's good enough for me.

Whether you're male or female depends on your DNA. Mutilating your body and dowsing yourself in artificial hormones won't change that.

[stopstaaron]

According to black dog if I consider myself to be Bowser, then I am Bowser! and anyone who disagrees is a jerk or a Mario!!

Edited April 4, 2012 by stopstaaron

[Guest American Woman]

So the DNA argument got me curious:

Transsexual gene link identified

DNA analysis from 112 male-to-female transsexual volunteers showed they were more likely to have a longer version of the androgen receptor gene.

The genetic difference may cause weaker testosterone signals, the team reported in Biological Psychiatry.

Increasingly, biological factors are being implicated in gender identity.

So DNA apparently is not as simple as "male" or "female."

[Black Dog]

I think you're being insanely too politically correct here.

What does that even mean?

According to black dog if I consider myself to be Bowser, then I am Bowser! and anyone who disagrees is a jerk or a bigot!!

No, but I can see why you'd interpret it that way given your propensity for one-dimensional thinking.

[Black Dog]

So the DNA argument got me curious:

Transsexual gene link identified

DNA analysis from 112 male-to-female transsexual volunteers showed they were more likely to have a longer version of the androgen receptor gene.

The genetic difference may cause weaker testosterone signals, the team reported in Biological Psychiatry.

Increasingly, biological factors are being implicated in gender identity.

So DNA apparently is not as simple as "male" or "female."

Well how about that. Looks like even genetics is undermining the binary.

[stopstaaron]

What does that even mean?

It means you're forcing an issue where there shouldn't be any all in the name of insanity

[Black Dog]

It means you're forcing an issue where there shouldn't be any all in the name of insanity

So transgenderism is mental illness now?

[stopstaaron]

So transgenderism is mental illness now?

No, I think maybe something isn't really right with their brains, same as homosexuals... that's the way they were born to think and feel this way, but I don't consider that mental illness

I also think adults who are attracted to kids have some wiring wrong in the brain...some fight their whole lives to not be attracted but they just can't help it and eventually they act on it

we don;t choose who we are or who we are attracted to, but if it harms anyone that person must be punished

its sad that sometimes the brain is wired the wrong way

as for this dude, he lied on his application, that is enough for me to consider him disqualified

[Black Dog]

No, I think maybe something isn't really right with their brains, same as homosexuals... that's the way they were born to think and feel this way, but I don't consider that mental illness

So why use the word "insanity?"

I also think adults who are attracted to kids have some wiring wrong in the brain...some fight their whole lives to not be attracted but they just can't help it and eventually they act on it

we don;t choose who we are or who we are attracted to, but if it harms anyone that person must be punished

its sad that sometimes the brain is wired the wrong way

So what's the "right" way? Dad at work, Mom in the kitchen, 2.5 kids, the whole heteronormative bit?

The "wrong way" GTFO.

[stopstaaron]

So why use the word "insanity?"

So what's the "right" way? Dad at work, Mom in the kitchen, 2.5 kids, the whole heteronormative bit?

The "wrong way" GTFO.

Excuse me but you're being ridiculous here. All I said was sometimes people aren't born the way they should have been but that I don't consider them to be mentally ill.

I think everyone is born with the intention that someday they will be given the chance to pro create... now, somehow during the process something can go wrong and make that not a reality. Some straight women and men can't make babies. Gay people who are capable of pro creating be aren't attracted to the opposite sex. The brain and the human body is a very complicated thing. It's a well known fact that people do not choose who they are attracted to so why are you still telling me to GTFO? do you disagree?

Are you claiming that sometimes people are born with the sole intent on molesting children? People aren't who they are because that is the way they are supposed to be, they are that way because something in the brain misfired

Edited April 4, 2012 by stopstaaron

[Black Dog]

Excuse me but you're being ridiculous here. All I said was sometimes people aren't born the way they should have been but that I don't consider them to be mentally ill.

Sorry did you write this or not:

It means you're forcing an issue where there shouldn't be any all in the name of insanity

If you didn't mean transgenderism, what did you mean?

I think everyone is born with the intention that someday they will be given the chance to pro create... now, somehow during the process something can go wrong and make that not a reality. Some straight women and men can't make babies. Gay people who are capable of pro creating be aren't attracted to the opposite sex. The brain and the human body is a very complicated thing. It's a well known fact that people do not choose who they are attracted to so why are you still telling me to GTFO? do you disagree?

I'm saying your categorical dismissal as transgendered peeps as disordered and "wrong" is just the same old bullshit we've heard for ages as justification for depriving other groups (gays, blacks) of equal treatment and basic respect 9for example, your smug insistence on referring to the person in this case as "he"). You claim not to be a bigot yet here you are, treading a path blazed for you by bigots.

Are you claiming that sometimes people are born with the sole intent on molesting children? People aren't who they are because that is the way they are supposed to be, they are that way because something in the brain misfired.

I don't take issue with the idea that this stuff may have biological causes so much as I do the implication that there is a "correct" way to be.

[Guest Manny]

Well the good news is if it's genetic, there might be therapy or a cure for it someday.

[stopstaaron]

Sorry did you write this or not:

If you didn't mean transgenderism, what did you mean?

When I said politically correct insanity I was referring to you, you would argue that a donkey should be in a pageant meant for bears just because you want to be on the opposite side of the argument.

I'm saying your categorical dismissal as transgendered peeps as disordered and "wrong" is just the same old bullshit we've heard for ages as justification for depriving other groups (gays, blacks) of equal treatment and basic respect 9for example, your smug insistence on referring to the person in this case as "he"). You claim not to be a bigot yet here you are, treading a path blazed for you by bigots.

So you are saying they were born this way on purpose and that biological differences did not cause this... that is what it looks like... as for depriving other groups.. I think there is a difference between denying people the right to marry and denying the rights for black people that white people have ... and denying the right to take part in a beauty pageant that they lied to get into in the first place... get a clue please before you start calling people bigots, there is something clearly wrong with your brain that you must call people a bigot all the time, grow up dude

The very fact that you compared this to people discriminating against gay people & black people is utterly ridiculous, not every friggin discrimination is on the same level of that and this clearly IS NOT

I don't take issue with the idea that this stuff may have biological causes so much as I do the implication that there is a "correct" way to be.

Apparently you did

[stopstaaron]

Well the good news is if it's genetic, there might be therapy or a cure for it someday.

There will never be a cure, the brain is too complicated.

[Black Dog]

When I said politically correct insanity I was referring to you, you would argue that a donkey should be in a pageant meant for bears just because you want to be on the opposite side of the argument.

Sure whatever.

So you are saying they were born this way on purpose and that biological differences did not cause this... that is what it looks like...

Not to anyone who know how to read it doesn't.

as for depriving other groups.. I think there is a difference between denying people the right to marry and denying the rights for black people that white people have ... and denying the right to take part in a beauty pageant that they lied to get into in the first place...

It's a difference of degree not kind.

get a clue please before you start calling people bigots, there is something clearly wrong with your brain that you must call people a bigot all the time, grow up dude

I consider your attitude towards the individual in question in this thread to be very intolerant and worthy of the label.

The very fact that you compared this to people discriminating against gay people & black people is utterly ridiculous, not every friggin discrimination is on the same level of that and this clearly IS NOT

Again, not the same level, but of the same ilk.

Apparently you did

Where? Cite?

[stopstaaron]

Black Dog, you don't have to pander to transgendered people to consider yourself a left winger. I am a left winger and I don't pander. It's not a prerequisite. Just informing you!

[Black Dog]

Black Dog, you don't have to pander to transgendered people to consider yourself a left winger. I am a left winger and I don't pander. It's not a prerequisite. Just informing you!

This line wasn't funny the first time you posted it.

[stopstaaron]

This line wasn't funny the first time you posted it.

2/3rds of the posters on the CBC article were not agreeing with you

and they are left wingers too

just sayin'

but hey, apparently they are bigots too

You just can't help but use the word "bigot", I think "bigot" should not be used on MLW

Maybe we should see what Michael says about it

[Guest American Woman]

2/3rds of the posters on the CBC article were not agreeing with you

and they are left wingers too

just sayin'

but hey, apparently they are bigots too

You are doing more than disagreeing; you keep referring to a human being as "it." If you think she's still a male, if you cannot see her as a female, that's one thing - but to refer to her as "it" does speak for itself - and what it says goes beyond "a difference of opinion."

[stopstaaron]

You are doing more than disagreeing; you keep referring to a human being as "it." If you think she's still a male, if you cannot see her as a female, that's one thing - but to refer to her as "it" does speak for itself - and what it says goes beyond "a difference of opinion."

Haven't referred to him as an it for like a week now, really get a clue AW

since page 3

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=20599&view=findpost&p=778113

This is now on page 20

Edited April 4, 2012 by stopstaaron

[Guest American Woman]

Haven't referred to him as an it for like a week now, really get a clue AW

Get a clue yourself. You think that erases what you've said before? You're not important enough for me o take note of when/if you stopped referring to her that way. I recall all of the posts where you did, and that speaks for itself.

BTW, I found this defense of referring to her as "it" ironic:

"It" is a person, just like you. Are you an "It"? There was a Cousin Itt many years ago....before your time.

I really don't care what I'm called.

Evidently you do care, since you are objecting to being called a bigot.