iPad 3 is out today.

[Boges]

The cult of the Apple Nerd is something I have always found hilarious.

Let's pay up to twice the price for a product that's only marginally better than it's competitor.

In the iPad/iPhone's case many Android tablets/smartphones are offer a better product for less.

Oh and Apple products are made by slave Chinese labour like all other electronics so saying it's of better quality than its competitors is amusing.

I find people that would wait inline for an Apple product that is released every year worthy of my scorn.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Boges

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Oh divine Apple Corporation. Bless us with thy moderate upgrade of technology that has extremly little bearing onthe actual functionality of the product.

It's not called iPad 3.

It's called "The New iPad"

Apple makes more sense when you stop thinking about it as a technology company, and more like a religion.

Let's pay up to twice the price for a product that's only marginally better than it's competitor.

In the iPad/iPhone's case many Android tablets/smartphones are offer a better product for less.

Oh and Apple products are made by slave Chinese labour like all other electronics so saying it's of better quality than its competitors is amusing.

Apple products aren't even better at ANYTHING. The company is just better at marketing to people who don't actually understand technology (the majority of people) or people who want to be regarded as "hip"/"not the man". The irony being is that Apple is the definition of "the man", actively searching for ways to clamp down on how you use technology.

-----

Apple is succeeding in a marketplace that ironically, understands less and less about technology. iDevices sold by gigabytes as the defining difference? lol.

iDevices marketed as upgrades by increasing the megapixel resolution of the camera sensor? lol. It's the lense that matters doofuses(doofii?), you are just creating a larger file size of a crappy photo.

iDevices taht are more restrictive in almost every way.

iDevices made by a corporation that holds a patent to prevent you from taking a picture of anything that might be copyrighted (can prevent pictures from being taken at concerts).

Like an over protective father, the divine Apple corporation knows best.

Edited March 16, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[fellowtraveller]

Oh and Apple products are made by slave Chinese labour like all other electronics so saying it's of better quality than its competitors is amusing.

I had two HTC Android phones. I really liked the Andorid system, but both phones were crap. The first one went through a touchscreen every couple of months. I gave up and through some phone company hijinks ended up with another HTC, a brand new model with dazzling graphics. Unfortunately, it could not make or receive phone calls, which was kind of inconvenient in a cell phone..

I got an Iphone, and it has lasted a year without breaking- in itself a major upgrade

My next phone will be simpler, I don;t need all this stuff. I'll look for a Mortorla on Android perhaps, I have had good luck with Motorola reiability in the past.

[Boges]

I had two HTC Android phones. I really liked the Andorid system, but both phones were crap. The first one went through a touchscreen every couple of months. I gave up and through some phone company hijinks ended up with another HTC, a brand new model with dazzling graphics. Unfortunately, it could not make or receive phone calls, which was kind of inconvenient in a cell phone..

I got an Iphone, and it has lasted a year without breaking- in itself a major upgrade

My next phone will be simpler, I don;t need all this stuff. I'll look for a Mortorla on Android perhaps, I have had good luck with Motorola reiability in the past.

Cell Phones aren't meant to last for more than a few years.

You get a phone at a discounted price by signing a 3-year contract. The phone dies in two years and you need to sign another contract to buy a new phone.

A friend of my wife has an iPhone 3GS. The only person I've ever seen with that phone still.

[msj]

Cell Phones aren't meant to last for more than a few years.

You get a phone at a discounted price by signing a 3-year contract. The phone dies in two years and you need to sign another contract to buy a new phone.

A friend of my wife has an iPhone 3GS. The only person I've ever seen with that phone still.

My wife still has her iPhone 3G (not an S). I have my Blackberry World which is almost 3 years old too.

We're both upgrading to iPhones (4s') because once you try Mac you don't go back.

You anti-apple geeks would hate us - this year we are upgrading to two iPhone 4s', will add the iPad3 to our iPad (which the wife will hand me down) and will replace the wife's Mac.

All in all, probably about $3,500 to Apple.

Boy, we sure are suckers...

[Boges]

All in all, probably about $3,500 to Apple.

Boy, we sure are suckers...

Those Chinese slaves will be thrilled.

[msj]

Those Chinese slaves will be thrilled.

What does it matter?

If I buy Android crap, Blackberry garbage, or MS junk they all get their pittance.

At least I get well designed products that do what I want them to do.

[Boges]

What does it matter?

If I buy Android crap, Blackberry garbage, or MS junk they all get their pittance.

At least I get well designed products that do what I want them to do.

Nice biased adjectives to describe Apple's competitors.

They all do what they were designed to do as well but you're not paying for a logo and a snobbish culture.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Boges

[Boges]

BTW I've never said that Apple produces crap. I work on Apple computers and I think their OS is better than Windows.

But it's not that much better. You can get a PC that performs better than a mac for half the price.

As for tablets, you can also get a tablet that does what most people use iPads for, for less than half what you pay for an iPad.

If you have the money, God bless. But many people out there buy the koolaid and buy Apple thinking they are light years ahead of their competitors.

MCC is right. Apple dumbs down it's technology to the lowest common denominator.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Boges

[msj]

Where have I been snobbish?

It's not like I have directly insulted the users of the products by stating " Apple dumbs down it's technology to the lowest common denominator." That seems rather ad hominem to me.

No, for my use, and from my experience, the competitors products are garbage. Your experience may differ based on your use.

I, too, used to be an anti-Apple zealot.

However, based on experience I have found that my former attitude to be based on ignorance rather than experience so my attitude has adjusted.

I still use PC's for work.

Prior to 2007, the last time I used an Apple product was something like 1981 or 1982 so it's not that long ago that I was an anti-Apple geek.

As for the money - it's just money and I would rather spend a few hundred extra on something that works right the first time than waste my time on something that doesn't work well even after investing a bunch of time.

My time is worth something and dealing with garbage products that don't work well is no longer tolerable for me.

If that makes me a snob then so be it.

[Boges]

Saying PC, Android, Blackberry etc stuff is crap is really subjective. They can complete the same tasks as apple products and in some cases they perform much better.

In all honesty most things people use are third-party. That's why the Apple App Store has made apple so successful. They have the most apps and games available for people to use and that's why more people get them.

I don't own a smart phone so I won't comment. The iPhone actually looks really good.

My beefs are with the iPad and Macs. People pretty much use iPads to surf the web, play games and watch videos. No way that's worth $500. The fact that people line up for what still amounts to an oversized iPod (this one with Siri) is hilarious.

Regarding macs. I use a mac at work, it's very user friendly but for the most part the practicality of any PC are the programs you use.

Most programs are found on PCs or Macs are cross platform. Other than the keyboard configuration I find very little difference between the iMac I use at work and the Toshiba laptop I use at home.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Boges

[msj]

Saying PC, Android, Blackberry etc stuff is crap is really subjective. They can complete the same tasks as apple products and in some cases they perform much better.

Of course it is subjective.

I have made it clear that it is my opinion based on my experience with Apple products versus certain competitors.

In all honesty most things people use are third-party. That's why the Apple App Store has made apple so successful. They have the most apps and games available for people to use and that's why more people get them.

I don't own a smart phone so I won't comment. The iPhone actually looks really good.

My brother-in-law has gone through Android to Apple to Windows phones in the past 18 months.

He preferred the iPhone the most and would like to go back to it even though the Windows phone is pretty good and very useful to him (since he is a Microsoft MVP on the Excel platform).

Between his words and my own experience I don't think the iPhone is all that unreasonable.

My beefs are with the iPad and Macs. People pretty much use iPads to surf the web, play games and watch videos. No way that's worth $500. The fact that people line up for what still amounts to an oversized iPod (this one with Siri) is hilarious.

Well, I have used tablets to various degrees and I know I prefer to bring a tablet when I travel rather than my laptop if only for the convenience.

So, now we are looking at spending $500-600 for an Apple or $300 for crap (imo).

The difference of $200-300 is nothing to me so why not get the best in the first place?

Regarding macs. I use a mac at work, it's very user friendly but for the most part the practicality of any PC are the programs you use.

Most programs are found on PCs or Macs are cross platform. Other than the keyboard configuration I find very little difference between the iMac I use at work and the Toshiba laptop I use at home.

My wife uses the Mac although I will inherit her old Mac when we do the upgrade.

She does various graphic design and webdesign stuff at home and from her experience Mac seems to be better than PC for this.

She uses both Mac and PC at her work and finds the difference to be vast - essentially only use the PC for testing purposes to then fix all the bugs related to IE 6, 7, 8, and 9.

[Moonlight Graham]

The cult of the Apple Nerd is something I have always found hilarious.

Let's pay up to twice the price for a product that's only marginally better than it's competitor.

...

I find people that would wait inline for an Apple product that is released every year worthy of my scorn.

I've never bought an Apple product. Ever. Not out of spite or anything, just because i've never found use for any of their products personally compared to their price. I may buy an iPod someday, who knows.

As you elude, Apple sell probably the most overpriced electronic products on the market.

Their computers are insanely overrated. You pay at least 30% more for inferior hardware/speed. Same with those Sony laptops. Ridiculous. Frankly, iPods are extremely over-priced compared to even a Sony MP3 player of greater storage capacity.

I find the whole iPad craze stupid. They are almost useless and overpriced out the ass, unless you REALLY love to read e-books on the go or something, but even then there are cheaper alternatives. Maybe their one meaningful use is if you want to play iPhone games/apps on a bigger screen. Just buy a netbook and get 3x the power and functionality. *Rant over.

[msj]

I've never bought an Apple product. Ever. Not out of spite or anything, just because i've never found use for any of their products personally compared to their price. I may buy an iPod someday, who knows.

I find the whole iPad craze stupid. They are almost useless and overpriced out the ass, unless you REALLY love to read e-books on the go or something, but even then there are cheaper alternatives. Maybe their one meaningful use is if you want to play iPhone games/apps on a bigger screen. Just buy a netbook and get 3x the power and functionality. *Rant over.

I find it funny how people comment on something that they have no real experience with.

I too was like this until I actually tried the products.

They work well. They satisfy a need that I never knew I really had.

You don't know until you try and until then you can't really comment because you do not have any experience for which to base your opinion on.

[fellowtraveller]

Cell Phones aren't meant to last for more than a few years.

You get a phone at a discounted price by signing a 3-year contract. The phone dies in two years and you need to sign another contract to buy a new phone.

A friend of my wife has an iPhone 3GS. The only person I've ever seen with that phone still.

Not my experience at all. The first HTC was discarded because I had the phone half the time, and loaners half the time snce it was always broken. No way would it have lasted a few years. The second HTC was useless from the first minute, it dropped about 50% of calls and would take many attempts to make a call. Looked great though. I went through 5 in four weeks and they took them all back.

I don't pay anything for phones, I'm a platinum level customer and they do what they need to do to keep my business.

My wie has a Koodo Android, no contract. It cost $35. No contract.

[Moonlight Graham]

I find it funny how people comment on something that they have no real experience with.

I too was like this until I actually tried the products.

They work well. They satisfy a need that I never knew I really had.

You don't know until you try and until then you can't really comment because you do not have any experience for which to base your opinion on.

a. I never denied the quality and durability of Apple products. They are well-made products. My argument is that they are overpriced, and they are, undeniably, based on the hardware/components they are build with.

b. you are assuming that because i've never bought an Apple product that i've never USED an Apple product. I've used them at work, at school, and have had basically all over my friends own Apple products.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[MiddleClassCentrist]

a. I never denied the quality and durability of Apple products. They are well-made products. My argument is that they are overpriced, and they are, undeniably, based on the hardware/components they are build with.

b. you are assuming that because i've never bought an Apple product that i've never USED an Apple product. I've used them at work, at school, and have had basically all over my friends own Apple products.

I bought Apple garbage.

It was called the iBook. Biggest pile of junk ever made.

They had class action lawsuits against the shoddy construction of it. It costed $115 to replace the power adapter... A power adapter that was rated 1/5 for being so crappy on Apple's own website. Meanwhile, an generic windows adapter only costed $25. The battery and keyboard also needed to be replaced.

Macs are no better than any other piece of technology. The religion of Apple indoctrinates you to believe otherwise.

I've used both, and I see exactly why Microsoft had to invest heavily into Apple to keep them afloat. They produced garbage at a premium price.

Now, as the average consumer understands less and less about how techology actually works and more about how it is "marketed to be awesome", Apple is rising.

Some people are slowly realizing that Apple is a restrictive 1984-esque company and are turning to the more open Android systems.

If you have to jailbreak your iDevice to make it do everything you want it to, you are admitting that Apple releases an inferior product.

Edited March 17, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[msj]

a. I never denied the quality and durability of Apple products. They are well-made products. My argument is that they are overpriced, and they are, undeniably, based on the hardware/components they are build with.

b. you are assuming that because i've never bought an Apple product that i've never USED an Apple product. I've used them at work, at school, and have had basically all over my friends own Apple products.

Fair enough.

However, I doubt you have spent much time with an iPad while travelling.

[msj]

I bought Apple garbage.

It was called the iBook. Biggest pile of junk ever made.

Agreed, which is why it didn't last long.

Macs are no better than any other piece of technology. The religion of Apple indoctrinates you to believe otherwise.

Agreed on the parts. But in terms of the O/S dead wrong.

I bought myself a new PC laptop with Win7 less than a year after my wife bought her shiny new Mac.

I rebooted my machine more in the first week than she rebooted her Mac in the first 8 or 9 months.

I'd pay more to save that kind of time.

I've used both, and I see exactly why Microsoft had to invest heavily into Apple to keep them afloat. They produced garbage at a premium price.

Now, as the average consumer understands less and less about how techology actually works and more about how it is "marketed to be awesome", Apple is rising.

Ah, yes, Apple's market cap is how many times MS'?

But it's all those dumb people's fault.

The thing about technology is us dumb people just want it to work the first time we boot it up rather than spend our lives rebooting Windows.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

The thing about technology is us dumb people just want it to work the first time we boot it up rather than spend our lives rebooting Windows.

Odd... The mac I owned crashed more frequently than my windows machine ever has.

Macs freeze too. Mac owners are just ashamed to admit it.

Edited March 17, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[msj]

Odd... The mac I owned crashed more frequently than my windows machine ever has.

Macs freeze too. Mac owners are just ashamed to admit it.

They do occasionally.

But I'm willing to pay the additional price for an OS that works 99% more effectively.

[Bonam]

Mac OS working "more effectively" is a matter of your opinion. When I had to work on a mac and use OSX for a while, holy crap, I could not get anything done.

I'd literally rather go back to Win 95 and have a blue screen of death every 30 minutes than use a mac OS. But that's just me, I prefer having control and customization over my OS. I want to set up my computer to be the way I want it, rather than the computer forcing me to use it in the way some apple engineer designed it for the lowliest idiot customer he thought they might have.

Anyway, I have win7 64 ultimate on my most current computer, and it hasn't crashed in months either. The only time I reboot it is for the occasional major driver upgrade / system update, which is maybe once every few weeks, the rest of the time it's just hibernate.

As for ipads, I honestly still can't quite see what is the fascination with that device. It is just the wrong form factor to be of any use to me. It is too big to practically fit into a pocket, which means you need to carry it around in a case/pack/etc. That means you may as well be carrying a full-featured ultraportable laptop, some of which are only very slightly larger and heavier. And they have infinitely more functionality.

A better idea for form factor would be to take a smart phone and scale it up to 5-5.5 inches from 4 inches and give it 720p resolution. A 5-5.5 inch screen is enough to be a convenient reader, better for games and videos, plus you could pack in more battery and more processing power. But the most important thing: it would still practically fit in your pocket. A 5.5 inch screen giant smartphone is probably right at the very upper limit of a pocket item. Samsung has the right idea with the Note, but it needs to be better to take off.

Anything beyond that, and it may as well be a laptop in my opinion. The 6-10 inch screen size range just does not seem useful.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Bonam

[msj]

Mac OS working "more effectively" is a matter of your opinion. When I had to work on a mac and use OSX for a while, holy crap, I could not get anything done.

How many times do I have to say it is my opinion.

We are on a discussion board, of course it is my opinion.

And you guys imply that I'm the dumb one?

I mean, honestly?

What doncha know about this being a forum?

Am I discussing stuff with a bunch of American Woman clones? Everything we say is our opinion unless we are quoting a statement or a fact.

I'd literally rather go back to Win 95 and have a blue screen of death every 30 minutes than use a mac OS. But that's just me, I prefer having control and customization over my OS. I want to set up my computer to be the way I want it, rather than the computer forcing me to use it in the way some apple engineer designed it for the lowliest idiot customer he thought they might have.

Sure, I use a PC for work purposes (although only because I have to because tax and audit software are not "lowliest" enough or makes one too "smart" to use a Mac).

Oh, and I had to reboot my Win7 machine again tonight.

Why? Because I closed the lid for an hour while eating dinner.

Doesn't like to hibernate apparently.

But, just so we are clear, this is my experience.

Anyway, I have win7 64 ultimate on my most current computer, and it hasn't crashed in months either. The only time I reboot it is for the occasional major driver upgrade / system update, which is maybe once every few weeks, the rest of the time it's just hibernate.

Good for you.

Sounds as good as Leopard.

As for ipads, I honestly still can't quite see what is the fascination with that device. It is just the wrong form factor to be of any use to me.

Well, good for you.

I won't imply you're dumb because you don't find it practical. I won't even call you a snob.

To each their own.

It is too big to practically fit into a pocket, which means you need to carry it around in a case/pack/etc. That means you may as well be carrying a full-featured ultraportable laptop, some of which are only very slightly larger and heavier. And they have infinitely more functionality.

It's called a man purse or a murse.

You know, like Iago in Othello - put thy money in thy purse. Quite a funny scene.

Anyway, to each their own.

I've tried the Playbook and liked the Xoom in the showroom but the iPad works very well for what it does for both my wife and myself.

A better idea for form factor would be to take a smart phone and scale it up to 5-5.5 inches from 4 inches and give it 720p resolution. A 5-5.5 inch screen is enough to be a convenient reader, better for games and videos, plus you could pack in more battery and more processing power. But the most important thing: it would still practically fit in your pocket. A 5.5 inch screen giant smartphone is probably right at the very upper limit of a pocket item. Samsung has the right idea with the Note, but it needs to be better to take off.

Anything beyond that, and it may as well be a laptop in my opinion. The 6-10 inch screen size range just does not seem useful.

Yes, Samsung does have that phone and I checked it out over the intertubes.

Doubt I would like it (in my opinion).

I also don't need to put big things in my pocket for any other apparent reason, either.

[Bonam]

How many times do I have to say it is my opinion.

We are on a discussion board, of course it is my opinion.

And you guys imply that I'm the dumb one?

I mean, honestly?

What doncha know about this being a forum?

Am I discussing stuff with a bunch of American Woman clones? Everything we say is our opinion unless we are quoting a statement or a fact.

When you make a statement like "this is more effective", that is a very specific and declarative statement. Obviously any statement anyone ever makes is, by definition, only their opinion. Nonetheless, some statements are worded so as to come across as if the speaker is stating an accepted fact. If I say "The Earth is 150 million km from the Sun", yeah, this is a forum, and that's my opinion, but I intend to convey the sense that I am stating a known fact. That's how your unqualified "it's more effective" statement came across to me.

Why? Because I closed the lid for an hour while eating dinner.

Doesn't like to hibernate apparently.

You should probably go into power management settings and check the behavior you've set for when the lid is closed. I didn't like the default preset interaction between hibernation and closing the lid either. Fortunately, it being a windows PC, there was a wide range of built in options, as well as third party tools, to customize the power management to my exact liking.

I also don't need to put big things in my pocket for any other apparent reason, either.

Size matters.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Bonam

[msj]

When you make a statement like "this is more effective", that is a very specific and declarative statement. Obviously any statement anyone ever makes is, by definition, only their opinion. Nonetheless, some statements are worded so as to come across as if the speaker is stating an accepted fact. If I say "The Earth is 150 million km from the Sun", yeah, this is a forum, and that's my opinion, but I intend to convey the sense that I am stating a known fact. That's how your unqualified "it's more effective" statement came across to me.

Fair enough

You should probably go into power management settings and check the behavior you've set for when the lid is closed. I didn't like the default preset interaction between hibernation and closing the lid either. Fortunately, it being a windows PC, there was a wide range of built in options, as well as third party tools, to customize the power management to my exact liking.

Yeah, because I'm just a dumb, snobby Mac user who hasn't thought of that.

Edited March 17, 2012 by msj