F-35 purchase undecided, Fantino says

[Smallc]

Remember a few months back when I suggested to you that the surface fleet would be reduced from 15 down to 12 to make up any budget shortfalls…….I’ll resubmit my “guesstimate” to now include the reduced surface fleet (to 12) and no AOPS……..Maybe a midlife extension for the Kingston’s………

BTW, I disagree hoping you're right. I'd prefer 15 CSC that could start sooner, and 12 lightly armed OPVs to be bought after 2020 or so. I'm pretty convinced that we'll get the AOPS. The government has promised that any reductions will not be in terms of capability. Expect a smaller civilian force. Also, there's something else to keep in mind. Even if there are cuts, the budget is on track to be balanced around 2014. There probably won't be cuts in the military area for long.

[Smallc]

as for the rest of your presumptuous acceptance of Harper Conservative bellicose commitments, look no further than the F-35 retreat... and... U.S. diplomatic cables:

The AOPS is designed mainly as a base of operations to perform a constabulary role. It will carry small boats and helicopters, and will not in any way be designed for open conflict. It will be far under armed for that.

[Guest Derek L]

clearly the linked article's reference was to Nanasivik (the original post has been edited accordingly).

the arctic research station has received significant critical comment/analysis from scientists/organizations currently relying upon PEARL... essentially, it is much too far south to provide as meaningful and appropriate monitoring/measure.

as for the rest of your presumptuous acceptance of Harper Conservative bellicose commitments, look no further than the F-35 retreat... and... U.S. diplomatic cables:

I agree, and from the viewpoint of DND, they never really wanted (in this fiscal climate) nor believed the political sunshine about an increased presence in the North….The ‘87 white paper also talked about “beefing up” our military capabilities in the Canadian arctic……..And that was when there was a Soviet “threat”……..Adding capabilities when current capabilities are in need of replacement was never deemed realistic…….

[Guest Derek L]

Hmmm, and this is certainly not being mentioned in the Canadian MSM, since of course that would be off message:

Lockheed welcomes Norway backing of F-35 fighter

The paper said Norway aimed to buy 52 F-35 fighter jets, including four training planes, from 2015 through 2023 or 2024, a plan that would see initial funding flow to Lockheed in 2013.

The previous plan called for Norway to buy 48 planes from 2016 through 2020, according to a document prepared for the F-35 program office, with initial funding to begin in 2014.

Norway said stretching the orders over a longer period would give it greater flexibility and help spread out the cost more evenly. It said it was not revising its estimate for procurement cost of the planes, despite changes in orders by the United States and other countries that could drive the price higher.

Assembly of first RAAF JSF starts soon

Australia's first Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) aircraft, the forerunner of as many as 100 advanced combat aircraft, is set to start down the production line in the next few weeks.

Air Vice Marshal Kym Osley, head of defence's new air combat capability program, rejected criticism of the JSF by organisations such as Air Power Australia (APA) on grounds they had not seen all the classified US data on the aircraft's performance.

He said the RAAF remained on track to receive its first two aircraft in 2014.

"Our first aircraft will start to be put together in the next few weeks," he told a parliamentary committee.

Australia is presently committed to buying 14 of the advanced Lockheed Martin F-35 JSF with two arriving in 2014 and the other 12 scheduled for delivery between 2015 and 2017.

A decision on the next tranche of 58 aircraft will likely be made next year. The RAAF is looking to achieve an initial operating capability (IOC) in 2018.

And most importantly:

Top Gun 2 will rock the F-35, Tom Burbage says

The big news from Burbage's speech involves Top Gun 2, the long-not-quite-awaited-but-certainly-delayed sequel of the 1986 fighter jock classic.

Tom Cruise, of course, confirmed back in December that the sequel is coming, but nobody -- not even IMDB (we checked) -- knows the full story.

But Burbage does. Lockheed's Fort Worth, Texas, factory and flight test center will host production crew in the "next month or so" to start filming, Burbage told the NAA luncheon crowd.

Burbage also confirmed that Cruise will not just make a cameo; he will be the star, and he is playing the role of a Lockheed F-35 test pilot!

Enter the (marketing) Dragon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8rZWw9HE7o

[cybercoma]

What's going on?

Not to pull an olp1fan, but Andrew Coyne is blowing up Twitter right now:

(Read bottom up for chronological order. RT @evansolomoncbc, for those unfamiliar with Twitter, is Andrew Coyne copying Evan Solomon's post)

This is epic.

Holy moly: @evansolomoncbc is doing a terrific job here.

It won't be. This is HUGE.

I'm guessing it's the Tories who are now leaking this info, as I suspect they did re AG report. Hoping it's old news by time AG lands.

This is just devastating. Whole basis for govt's defense of sole-source contract was that this was only jet that could meet SOR.

Requirements rigged to exclude all competition, but F-35 still doesn't meet them: Williams.

So not only did they refuse to release either SOR or cost info, it now seems jet never met requirements, and is now well over claimed costs.

RT ‏@evansolomoncbc @acoyne Yes, this is the first time we are seeing it--more details to come

Former DND procurement chief Alan Williams: F-35 process was "hijacked and rigged."

SOR = Statement of Requirements, for those wondering. [update: A follower later corrects him Statement of Operational Requirements]

Is this the first time we've seen the SOR? Wasn't the government refusing to release it before?

Whoa. @evansolomoncbc with SOR for F-35s -- says docs show F-35 doesn't meet them.

Edited March 26, 2012 by cybercoma

[stopstaaron]

The shit hit the fan did it?

[cybercoma]

The shit hit the fan did it?

Did it ever!

[Guest Derek L]

What's going on?

Not to pull an olp1fan, but Andrew Coyne is blowing up Twitter right now:

(Read bottom up for chronological order. RT @evansolomoncbc, for those unfamiliar with Twitter, is Andrew Coyne copying Evan Solomon's post)

This is epic.

Holy moly: @evansolomoncbc is doing a terrific job here.

It won't be. This is HUGE.

I'm guessing it's the Tories who are now leaking this info, as I suspect they did re AG report. Hoping it's old news by time AG lands.

This is just devastating. Whole basis for govt's defense of sole-source contract was that this was only jet that could meet SOR.

Requirements rigged to exclude all competition, but F-35 still doesn't meet them: Williams.

So not only did they refuse to release either SOR or cost info, it now seems jet never met requirements, and is now well over claimed costs.

RT ‏@evansolomoncbc @acoyne Yes, this is the first time we are seeing it--more details to come

Former DND procurement chief Alan Williams: F-35 process was "hijacked and rigged."

SOR = Statement of Requirements, for those wondering.

Is this the first time we've seen the SOR? Wasn't the government refusing to release it before?

Whoa. @evansolomoncbc with SOR for F-35s -- says docs show F-35 doesn't meet them.

An earth shattering development!!!!!

Under the New Fighter Aircraft program, the Trudeau Government has selected McDonnell Douglas’s yet unproven F/A-18 Hornet………General Dynamics and Grumman clearly have the superior products with the in-service F-16 and F-14.…….Meanwhile PQ leader René Lévesque is calling the decision not to select the F-16, with the option to build the engines in Pratt & Whitney’s Quebec plant, an affront to the Quebec people.........PET is clearly in the pocket of President Carter.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Derek L

[stopstaaron]

Did it ever!

I've been following Acoyne on twitter for a year. I haven't seen him this excited. I've never seen him use the word epic either.

Edited March 26, 2012 by stopstaaron

[Guest Derek L]

I've been following Acoyne on twitter for a year. I haven't seen him this excited. I've never seen him use the word epic either.

Meanwhile, back in the real world in today's F-35 news:

F-35 Completes First Night Refueling

And

BAE Opens Latest Phase of F-35 Manufacturing Facility in the UK

Edited March 26, 2012 by Derek L

[stopstaaron]

Meanwhile, back in the real world in today's F-35 news:

F-35 Completes First Night Refueling

And

BAE Opens Latest Phase of F-35 Manufacturing Facility in the UK

Nah, this pretty much kills the whole deal.. if they did not meet the requirements

[cybercoma]

No. The real world is that the F-35 doesn't meet the operational requirements set by the DND. That's the real world. The Conservatives rigged the process so that there would be no competition and the jet, and according to their own documents, doesn't meet the requirements. They're screwed. They side-stepped the rules and due-process to buy a plane that's not even suitable for the DND's mandatory SOR.

Edited March 26, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Derek L]

Nah, this pretty much kills the whole deal.. if they did not meet the requirements

What requirements do the F-35 LRIPs not meet? Contrasted with full production aircraft...

[Guest Derek L]

No. The real world is that the F-35 doesn't meet the operational requirements set by the DND. That's the real world. The Conservatives rigged the process so that there would be no competition and the jet, and according to their own documents, doesn't meet the requirements. They're screwed. They side-stepped the rules and due-process to buy a plane that's not even suitable for the DND's mandatory SOR.

What requirements isn't it meeting?

[cybercoma]

What requirements do the F-35 LRIPs not meet? Contrasted with full production aircraft...

According to Evan Solomon there's 28 requirements that it fails to meet, as well as problems with the stealth, while the hornet and a slew of other jets he just listed off can meet all of those requirements immediately.

[Guest Derek L]

According to Evan Solomon there's 28 requirements that it fails to meet, as well as problems with the stealth, while the hornet and a slew of other jets he just listed off can meet all of those requirements immediately.

The Hornet can meet the Stealth requirement?

I'll spot you these ones:

14 December 2011 - 08:37 PM

Doubt it……..but I’m waiting for the media and in turn some posters here, to “report” on the “new’ problems associated with the JSF………(Even though I posted a few pages back, these problems are with prototypes and pre-production aircraft, that consequently, production is slowing on)………

“Brace yourself”, for news on relating to the “failure to integrate the (recycled from F-18) tail hook on the “C” version”, A fuel dump that doesn’t completely empty the tanks and problems with the pilots helmet integrated weapons cueing software.

Better late than never I suppose.

[stopstaaron]

According to Evan Solomon there's 28 requirements that it fails to meet, as well as problems with the stealth, while the hornet and a slew of other jets he just listed off can meet all of those requirements immediately.

This is worse than the Airbus scandal

[cybercoma]

So the military apparently writes the requirements that they have for equipment, then the government goes and looks for the equipment that meets these requirements. There's an open-tender and the government makes its selection with an open-review process.

Evidently, the SOR was written only weeks before the Conservatives made the announcement about the F-35s with no open-tender or review-process and the F-35s fail to meet the requirements that the DND set out for the jets that they need.

That's the problem in a nutshell. In other words, the Conservatives, the party of transparency and openness, bypassed the transparent part of the process, acted unilaterally and dropped the ball. Now they're caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

For a party that's supposed to hate profligate government spending and cash handouts, Harper is an utter failure.

[Guest Derek L]

So the military apparently writes the requirements that they have for equipment, then the government goes and looks for the equipment that meets these requirements. There's an open-tender and the government makes its selection with an open-review process.

Evidently, the SOR was written only weeks before the Conservatives made the announcement about the F-35s with no open-tender or review-process and the F-35s fail to meet the requirements that the DND set out for the jets that they need.

That's the problem in a nutshell. In other words, the Conservatives, the party of transparency and openness, bypassed the transparent part of the process, acted unilaterally and dropped the ball. Now they're caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

For a party that's supposed to hate profligate government spending and cash handouts, Harper is an utter failure.

Fail to meet? The development isn’t complete yet……..And your “source’s” “epic” revelation is rather old news……I posted it here, nearly four months prior, to the story being “busted wide open”…….

Chris Alexander did make a good point on P&P though………Perhaps they should cut out the media mongers, the political parties talking heads, “think tank thinkers”, and company reps and interview pilots , namely RCAF ones, that are involved in the program or will be effected by it’s outcome.

[cybercoma]

So Evan Solomon is lying when he says the DND's SOR report has until now been undisclosed?

Edited March 26, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Derek L]

So Evan Solomon is lying when he says the DND's SOR report has until now been undisclosed?

I never said that.

[stopstaaron]

I never said that.

Its what you suggested

[cybercoma]

your “source’s” “epic” revelation is rather old news……

So Evan Solomon is lying when he says the DND's SOR report has until now been undisclosed?

I never said that.

You could have fooled me.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nah, this pretty much kills the whole deal.. if they did not meet the requirements

There is no deal....Canada has as many F-35's under contract as The People's Republic of China.

Canada has entered into the requisite political self flagellation that is customary for all military procurements.

[Guest Derek L]

You could have fooled me.

What is the “epic revelation”? I’m certain I just watched the same episode of P&P as you, and on it, they discussed “new issues” with the F-35 in terms of meeting DND’s requirements……. As I outlined, these “issues” aren’t new……….Or is your outrage fuelled by the “revelation” that DND writes the technical requirements for military purchases?