Boges Posted March 13, 2012 Report Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Tens of Thousands of jobs are on the line if they cut off this funding. I understand that this money could go to reducing the debt. But not if you put an entire industry of people out of work! Think of all the people you're putting on EI and who, if can't find suitable replacement employment wont be paying taxes. This issue proves that this government is really out of touch with the realities of the average person living in Ontario. Ontario horse racing industry calls province’s proposal to end slots-at-racetracks program ‘irresponsible.’Members of Ontario's horse racing industry fear the loss of the slots-at-racetracks program could irreparably damage Woodbine's purse structure. Members of Ontario's horse racing industry fear the loss of the slots-at-racetracks program could irreparably damage Woodbine's purse structure. In what looms as a devastating blow to horse racing in Ontario, the provincial government has proposed that the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation end the 14-year slots-at-racetracks program on March 13, 2013. The OLG’s gambling expansion is set to include a reconfiguring of the location of slot machines (they currently exist at 17 Ontario racetracks), a proposed Toronto casino — Woodbine has been floated as a potential site — and wider availability of lottery sales and online gaming. The aim, according to the OLG, is to increase revenues by $1 billion a year and create 2,300 new jobs, plus an additional 4,000 by 2017-2018. “I find it irresponsible,” said Sue Leslie, president of the Ontario Horse Racing Industry Association. “Why, why would you end a successful revenue-sharing program with one partner on the hope that you will find a better partner? The ministry is saying this new plan is going to net 2,300 new jobs, but you will be losing 60,000 jobs in the horse racing industry.” “When I heard that, I wanted to cry,” said Sherry McLean, who has worked as a thoroughbred manager at famed Gardiner Farms in Caledon East for almost three decades. “We finally have built up a very lucrative, successful provincial racing program at Woodbine, so much so that many states in the U.S. have been trying to emulate us. Finally, we have been able to make a decent living in this business and now this announcement comes?” http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1145009--ontario-horse-racing-industry-calls-province-s-plan-to-end-slots-at-racetracks-program-irresponsible Edited March 13, 2012 by Boges Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted March 13, 2012 Report Posted March 13, 2012 Tens of Thousands of jobs are on the line if they cut off this funding. I understand that this money could go to reducing the debt. But not if you put an entire industry of people out of work! Think of all the people you're putting on EI and who, if can't find suitable replacement employment wont be paying taxes. I agree. Let's lay off teachers and toss them onto EI instead! On the spectrum of importance to society, horse racing is near the bottom. If it creates jobs, it should be done because of demand for the industry, not subsidy. Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
Boges Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) I agree. Let's lay off teachers and toss them onto EI instead! On the spectrum of importance to society, horse racing is near the bottom. If it creates jobs, it should be done because of demand for the industry, not subsidy. Who's saying Lay off teachers? The deal isn't a subsidy, it's a 10% of the slot revenue at the racetracks making purse money lucrative enough for people to invest in the industry by purchasing racehorses. That goes to paying trainers, their staff, blacksmiths, vets, people who produce feed and bedding, training centre owners etc. You know private sector jobs. A lot of spin-off employment. Now a subsidy is when the government pays to people who produce TV shows/movies no one watches and building windmills that produce very little electricity. Edited March 13, 2012 by Boges Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 13, 2012 Report Posted March 13, 2012 Horse racing has been dying for a long time in Ontario... The only thing keeping many tracks open anymore are the slots... Basically,the only people who go regularily to the track for the ponies are (degenerate) gamblers... And you call it whatever you want,but it's slot machines at racetracks that are subsidizing the horse racing industry... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Horse racing has been dying for a long time in Ontario... The only thing keeping many tracks open anymore are the slots... Basically,the only people who go regularily to the track for the ponies are (degenerate) gamblers... And you call it whatever you want,but it's slot machines at racetracks that are subsidizing the horse racing industry... Well it's not what it was, but a lot of things aren't what they were. Do you think the province is better served pocketing 100% of that slot money. 100% of the revenue created by horse racing isn't from the slots but it helps. And it's not just Horse Racing, it feeds the Agricultural industry. It's actually the second largest agricultural sector in the province. http://value4money.ca/horse-racing-economics/ - A total $1.5 billion in wages and salaries in Ontario are sustained annually by total expenditures of the Ontario horse racing and breeding industry. This total is 50% larger than the $1 billion in 2000.- The effective average direct wage is $47,145 (racetrack operations) and $55,035 at the racing phase (backstretches and farms). These wages are not much different from some of the highest industrial wages in Ontario and compares closely to the Tourism industry at $55,000. - Direct and indirect investment stimulates local economies with demand for products and services in rural Ontario provided by veterinarians, blacksmiths, hay and grain supplies, transportation workers and harness and saddle makers. I'll concede many unprofitable tracks need to close though. I anticipate the government will have to view this from a track to track analysis of the possible return. Edited March 13, 2012 by Boges Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 I'll concede many unprofitable tracks need to close though. I anticipate the government will have to view this from a track to track analysis of the possible return. Boges, we all know the McGuinty Liberals simply aren't smart enough to do that! The slots are shared revenue. People go to the track and fill time on the slots. They don't go there for the slots and fill time on the horses! It's therefore shared revenue. The slots are getting a free location! Regardless, there are far more jobs associated with the horses than McGuinty will develop with his changes. He's bragging about creating less than 3,000 jobs while killing 60,000! He is obviously an idiot! This should trigger an election! Except that the average citizen isn't paying any attention, unless its his own job on the line. Better to wait until people get fleeced with new higher license fees...that's gonna touch EVERYBODY! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Boges Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Posted March 14, 2012 Except that the average citizen isn't paying any attention, unless its his own job on the line. Better to wait until people get fleeced with new higher license fees...that's gonna touch EVERYBODY! Well today they said they were closing the slots at Windsor, Fort Erie and Sarnia and it was top news on the Toronto talk radio stations and newspapers. Those aren't great racetracks and for the most part the slots do carry the joint. (As opposed to tracks like Flamborough, Woodbine, Georgian, Ottawa and Mohawk) and the negative feedback has to be being felt. The hilarious thing about it is they said they are only making $100 million at the Windsor slots as opposed to $800,000 when times were better. Who closes anything that has a $100 million profit? The blowback from this is going to be strong. Quote
Topaz Posted March 14, 2012 Report Posted March 14, 2012 What I've heard on the radio news is that we could be in for another election in Ontario, if McGuinty doesn't raise the corporate taxes and only gave them to businesses that create jobs. If he doesn't have this in the upcoming budget, the NDP leader will bring down the government. Quote
Boges Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Posted March 15, 2012 More evidence McDalton doesn't give to flying effs about what's good for Ontario. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1146319--ontarians-oppose-olg-plan-for-more-casinos-poll-finds?bn=1 The cash-strapped Liberal government’s gamble on expanding casinos and slots is proving to be a losing bet with Ontarians, a new poll suggests. More than two-thirds of people surveyed — 69 per cent — oppose the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation’s proposal to increase gambling in the province by opening new facilities in cities like Toronto and Ottawa. Only 24 per cent approved of the sweeping scheme unveiled Monday, according to the poll conducted by Forum Research and provided to the Star. “People don’t want a casino in their neighbourhood,” Forum president Lorne Bozinoff said Wednesday. “Gaming is the type of thing that people really don’t want around in a lot of areas — be it the slots or the casinos.” Bozinoff said OLG’s plan — which could add more than $1 billion annually to a province struggling with a $16 billion budget deficit this year — appears to be taking its toll on the minority Liberals. The poll also found that the Progressive Conservatives, led by Tim Hudak, sit at 40 per cent, ahead of Premier Dalton McGuinty’s Liberals at 28 per cent. Andrea Horwath’s New Democrats are at 23 per cent while the Green Party of Mike Schreiner is at 8 per cent. Quote
mentalfloss Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 I agree. Let's lay off teachers and toss them onto EI instead! On the spectrum of importance to society, horse racing is near the bottom. If it creates jobs, it should be done because of demand for the industry, not subsidy. Agreed. I think most people tend to simply look at jobs lost here and jobs lost there, when it is just as important to look at the type of job and what that job actually contributes to society. Quote
mentalfloss Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 More evidence McDalton doesn't give to flying effs about what's good for Ontario. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1146319--ontarians-oppose-olg-plan-for-more-casinos-poll-finds?bn=1 Well, we could raise corporate taxes by 10% and save $1 Billion/year that way. Quote
Boges Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Agreed. I think most people tend to simply look at jobs lost here and jobs lost there, when it is just as important to look at the type of job and what that job actually contributes to society. So the Agricultural Industry in this province is useless to you. You may think of Horse racing as just a sport but the sport benefits many people in rural Ontario. It's not like rich racehorse owners and track owners pocket the money. They've done a lot of good with the money they get from OLG. But since we're talking about how people contribute to society. How do people that work at kiosks at Service Ontario really contribute to society? How do token collectors at the TTC contribute to society? How do TV shows/Movies that get massively subsidized by the government that few people watch contribute to society? Or how about teenagers and 20 somethings who take out loans to go to university to get an already heavily subsidized degree in any number of liberal arts programs that have next to ziltch applications in getting a job that pays a living wage in today's society. Anyway here's a column from the Star that highlights why what the Liberals are doing is so so wrong. http://www.thestar.com/sports/horseracing/article/1146004--perkins-olg-changes-show-there-s-more-honesty-at-racetracks-than-at-queen-s-park?bn=1 What did Ontario do for its 75 per cent of the take? Next to nothing. It allowed for the installation of slots machines at racetracks, where there already was a willing gambling-ready clientele. The racetracks shouldered the costs. Still do. In return for customers lost because it is far less challenging to pull a handle than to learn how to handicap, the tracks took 20 per cent of the profits. (Municipalities took the other 5.)With er cits 20 pent, Ontario racing transformed itself, right down to the breeding sheds. The harness racing became the best in North America; both New York and Pennsylvania studied the Ontario business model for their own slots-at-racetracks program. Thoroughbreds blossomed with higher purses and betting revenues solidified, throwing good money into the tax coffers. (The total from both breeds was $261 million last year and how does that nut compare to unemployment benefits and/or retraining costs for up to 60,000?) Edited March 15, 2012 by Boges Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 More evidence McDalton doesn't give to flying effs about what's good for Ontario. Boges, I don't question that McGuinty and his team care about Ontario. I truly believe they have big hearts! Unfortunately, they have small brains! I think they just sit around the premier's office and blue sky various ideas, without a clue as to the current situation and without any sense of the need to investigate before making any decisions. They seem to think in politically correct and trendy thought icons, with anyone who has any hands on experience barred from the decision making process. I truly don't believe that McGuinty's team had any indepth knowledge of the Ontario racetrack industry at all! I think they got excited about being able to hold a photo op for 2400 new jobs while being completely ignorant of the 60,000 they are going to wipe out! No, they do have big hearts but with such small brains they tend to be very shallow thinkers! Whatever happened to all those jobs with the solar cell and wind turbine industry? Shouldn't people be leaving the oilsands and coming home to Ontario by now? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Boges Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Posted March 15, 2012 Whatever happened to all those jobs with the solar cell and wind turbine industry? Shouldn't people be leaving the oilsands and coming home to Ontario by now? Ironically the policies of this government will probably force many people to leave Ontario and do just that: Go to work on the oilsands. Quote
Topaz Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Ironically the policies of this government will probably force many people to leave Ontario and do just that: Go to work on the oilsands. All those jobs are for short term except the security that's hired. Quote
Topaz Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Anyone know how many people are on EI now? I think there will have to be another increase in EI premiums, because of all the people who are on it now and the thousands that are going to lose their jobs in the Ottawa, and the private sector. Quote
Topaz Posted March 15, 2012 Report Posted March 15, 2012 Here's some info. on the EI. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/120217/dq120217b-eng.htm Quote
Boges Posted March 16, 2012 Author Report Posted March 16, 2012 All those jobs are for short term except the security that's hired. That's why Alberta has an unemployment of 5% of course. Some jobs maybe seasonal but they more than pay for a normal salary and then people can take different seasonal jobs at slow times of the year. It actually sounds rather appealing. Quote
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