olpfan1 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Posted March 6, 2012 Letters by ndp & lpc calling for inquiries are also considered complaints Quote
j44 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Posted March 6, 2012 What's that agenda? Accountability? I have no doubt they want to hold them accountable but it's not like they don't have an axe to grind. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 6, 2012 Report Posted March 6, 2012 Prove with evidence and facts that the Liberals lost one seat due to robo calling. How many people have actually said they didn't vote because of it ! First, if a lot of people did not get out and vote, and if they were voting Liberal, then those robocalls are a direct reason as to why those seats were taken from the Liberals. The proof, I guess is still yet to be found. Quote
waldo Posted March 6, 2012 Report Posted March 6, 2012 programmed robo calls from those two sites. "programmed robo calls"??? Wow - the ultimate spin! Are you prepared to step-up and claim the website admissions have been script-driven hacked? That's essentially what you're saying when you label them as "programmed robo calls". Is that what you're prepared to claim and substantiate? Notwithstanding you can't seem to make up your mind on complaint vs. contact even in your own usage description... surely unintentional, right? Quote
waldo Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Dean Del Maestro: If we did it, we would know it.... And we don't (know it)...So...We didn't (do it)... just when you thought the Harper Conservatives "point man" couldn't be topped... he outdoes himself! Today in Question Period, the "point man" demanded, once again, that the Liberals release their phone records to prove they weren't behind the misleading phone calls; in later discussion with reporters, the "point man" stated: Dean Del Maestro : The Conservative Party doesn't need to provide its own records, because obviously our party is not behind these calls, we know that. Quote
scribblet Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 First, if a lot of people did not get out and vote, and if they were voting Liberal, then those robocalls are a direct reason as to why those seats were taken from the Liberals. The proof, I guess is still yet to be found. Exactly, so far it's all smoke and mirrors except for Guelph. If this were CSI they'd have Poutine in an hour, but still, I'm surprised it's taking this long. They were able to track the VL guy down to the HOC faster than this. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
scribblet Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Question Period is creepy, the opposition acts like a pack of starved yapping hyenas. Do they really believe that we are stupid enough to buy into their mudslinging (well yeah I guess some do). I can't imagine this bunch of loony screaming banshees running our wonderful country. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
scribblet Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 I know...so they should stop whining about bogeyman Americans. That is just pathetic! LOL How legal is Avaaz, it's a foreign company attempting to subvert our process - Yankee go home Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
waldo Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Quoting ANYTHING that comes out of Question Period is laughable. Question period is theater, and it's a joke. It's merely a chance for all parties to get in some pointless political grandstanding. how conveniently dismissive of you! Given Harper's overt disrespect for Parliament over the years, I'm not surprised you would negate a fundamental component of parliamentary government... the right to seek information and the right to hold the Government of the day accountable. Oh, wait... you said, 'all parties' - carry on. I can't imagine this bunch of loony screaming banshees running our wonderful country. see Angry Baird! LOL How legal is Avaaz, it's a foreign company attempting to subvert our process - Yankee go home I understand that there interweeb thing has a global reach... sumthin bout a global community. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Quoting ANYTHING that comes out of Question Period is laughable. Question period is theater, and it's a joke. It's merely a chance for all parties to get in some pointless political grandstanding. That's what it has become and it doesn't help when the governing party makes a mockery of it. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 LOL How legal is Avaaz, it's a foreign company attempting to subvert our process - Yankee go home Providing a form for constituents to email their MPs and Canadians more generally to email the leaders of the political parties is "subversion"? Incredible. Just when I didn't think conservatives could have any more contempt for our political institutions, one of them pipes up with this gem. Don't contact politicians. It's subversive. Quote
scribblet Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Providing a form for constituents to email their MPs and Canadians more generally to email the leaders of the political parties is "subversion"? Incredible. Just when I didn't think conservatives could have any more contempt for our political institutions, one of them pipes up with this gem. Don't contact politicians. It's subversive. People believe the robo calls were subversive etc. so how is a foreign company manipulating Canadian citizens with robo spam to E.C. acceptable. It's not a grassroots protest, it's a manipulation and an agenda to slow up E.C.'s process/. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2012/03/06/19468066.html NDP MP David Christopherson admits the involvement of American group Avaaz in the complaints raises questions. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
GostHacked Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 "programmed robo calls"??? Wow - the ultimate spin! Are you prepared to step-up and claim the website admissions have been script-driven hacked? That's essentially what you're saying when you label them as "programmed robo calls". Is that what you're prepared to claim and substantiate? Notwithstanding you can't seem to make up your mind on complaint vs. contact even in your own usage description... surely unintentional, right? Robocalls Waldo .. implies that a computer has been programmed to call all these numbers and give out an automated message. Because if it was not a programmed computer doing robocalls, then you must be using live people to call others. Both methods were used, even cards in the mail telling you the polling station has changed. Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Angus Reid poll has asked Canadians which federal parties are likely to provide false and misleading information to voters. It found 63% of respondents fingered the Tories, while 55% also pointed at the Liberals. Only a third could see the NDP, Green Party and Bloc Quebecois using the dirty trick. Almost two-thirds of respondents said the misleading robocalls probably weren't limited to Guelph, Ont., where the story first broke. Angus Reid conducted an online survey among 1,001 randomly selected Canadian adults between March 1 and March 3. The margin of error is +/- 3.1%, 19 times out of 20. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Fortunately, we don't convict people of crimes (even election fraud crimes) based on opinion polls. Given the fact that ALL political parties use robo-calling, this poll only proves that two thirds of respondents don't have a clue. This isn't about using robocalls. It's about misleading voters. You seem to have trouble reading. Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Fortunately, we don't convict people of crimes (even election fraud crimes) based on opinion polls. Given the fact that ALL political parties use robo-calling, this poll only proves that two thirds of respondents don't have a clue. Robocalls? The poll isn't about Robocalls.. Its about providing FALSE and MISLEADING information. That can be done through many ways including Telemarketing (as has been expressed in the RMG call centres) where employees took it upon themselves to contact the RCMP and Elections Canada. Or Robocalls or False emails or u name it ... perhaps false and misleading comments in Parliment... When I find the full poll I will post it.... Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Fortunately, we don't convict people of crimes (even election fraud crimes) based on opinion polls. This poll only proves that two thirds of respondents don't have a clue. Sorry just got your comment above now.. Here is what your post would look like with Robocalls retracted. Quote
madmax Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 It knd of is...and kind of isn't. At any rate, read my response above. my bad .. Created thread confusion... Post regarding Robocalls is in ROBOCalls thread. The Poll results in this thread by Angus Read as I have read them so far.. are not related to specifically to Robocalls. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 The point is that robocalling itself doesn't really matter. No one cares that they used robocalling. Even though it's annoying, that's a separate issue entirely. The problem is not with the act of robocalling, but the act if misleading voters, as well as impersonating elections Canada on live-calls. Whoever did these things knew they were doing something wrong, otherwise they wouldn't have bought a disposable cellphone under a pseudonym. It is without a doubt that something illegal happened here. What remains to be seen is who is behind it. People are going to point the finger at the Conservatives because Elections Canada already raided their headquarters for illegal election financing. The CPC was found guilty of that offense. Moreover, Harper, while he was the head of the NCC, took Elections Canada to court in Harper v Canada to have financing rules changed. Now, Conservatives have admitted to robocalling, but those expenses haven't shown up on their books, which is also against Elections Canada regulations. These claims of misleading voters comes out and they refuse to show their phone records, while changing their story every few days. We don't know who is behind the misleading robocalls and the live calls claiming to be Elections Canada when they weren't, but it's pretty easy to see why people would look first to the CPC. They've already engaged in underhanded tactics, such that they were even found guilty of an illegal election financing scheme. I doubt very many people would be remotely surprised if the CPC were behind these misleading and subversive phone calls as well. Quote
capricorn Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Quoting ANYTHING that comes out of Question Period is laughable. Question period is theater, and it's a joke. It's merely a chance for all parties to get in some pointless political grandstanding. Question period has become a futile exercise that only political junkies watch. It's become nothing but blurting out accusations to and fro with quips designed to land in the next headlines. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Smallc Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Question period has become a futile exercise that only political junkies watch. It's become nothing but blurting out accusations to and fro with quips designed to land in the next headlines. Has it ever really been more than that? The rest of the day, contrary to what most of the public thinks (which I'm sure you already know), is nothing like QP and isn't supposed to be. Quote
capricorn Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 It's not a grassroots protest, it's a manipulation and an agenda to slow up E.C.'s process/. The leadnow and Avaaz online robo-email campaigns are impeding EC's investigation. Otherwise, EC would not have felt compelled to issue a news release yesterday instructing such groups to direct their members to EC's online complaint form. In order to facilitate the complaint process and ensure that information is provided directly to the Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada has developed an online complaint form that complements the traditional channels by which complaints about the electoral process are lodged with Elections Canada and/or the Commissioner of Canada Elections.Elections Canada invites electors who believe that fraudulent calls interfered with their right to vote, or who have information about such calls, to use the complaint form available from its website home page to provide details. The information provided will be used solely for this matter and, where appropriate, will help to guide the investigation by the Commissioner of Canada Elections. For information about the Commissioner’s investigative process, please consult the Information Bulletin on Enforcement of the Canada Elections Act. Some organizations have set up their own processes to gather the concerns and complaints of electors. To avoid confusion, Elections Canada asks those political parties, members of Parliament, candidates, their representatives and any organization collecting or receiving information to direct electors to the complaint form on the Elections Canada website. The collaboration of political representatives and other organizations is much appreciated. http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=med&document=mar0612&dir=pre〈=e What was the intent of the leadnow and Avaaz online robo-email campaigns? I highly suspect they are not prepared to accept the forthcoming findings of the EC/RCMP investigation and the end result they seek is a redo of the election or have enough by-elections called to reduce the Conservatives to a minority. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
cybercoma Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 I'm not talking about legal convictions though. Politics is a game of public opinion and perceptions. Thus, the CPC and Stephen Harper's past behaviours implicates them in the mind of the public. This is shown by the current polls that were posted in the other thread. Meanwhile, the CPC base is so entrenched that they would actually defend election fraud in order to distance their party from what's going on. As I said earlier, the first and only thing the CPC and its supporters should have done was condemn what happened, deny any involvement, and call for a launch of a free independent inquiry into the matter. Instead, we get some questionable verbal gymnastics, which only serves to further implicate the CPC. If this continues to fester, it could possibly create a rift in the party, as more conscientious members seek to distance themselves from the fire. Quote
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