olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 I'm sorry,(and Toadbrother would agree with me),but that's not the historical truth of the matter... I agree that most people won't take the time to understand that,but it's the truth... There was just a lot of bad bad blood between the Opposition and the Conservatives..understandably so but that anger is what fueled them to go for the Contempt of Parliament Quote
Smallc Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Absolutely, I can see how rabid anti-Harper/Conservatives would be perplexed over this turn of events. They simply cannot understand it. See, I don't think those things are necessarily good, but they don't really rise to the level that would cause people to dump a party from government. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 I agree with you that in theory, it's a big deal, but I also agree with the below. The Contempt of Parliament charge, was, in this case, a very political thing. I agree there was definately partisan politics at play last year...No question about it... But it's not historical theory...It's simply put,historical fact...Parliament (the people) is supreme over any elected government (particularily in a minority situation),when THEY ask for documents (in this case)... There should be no question over this... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 See, I don't think those things are necessarily good, but they don't really rise to the level that would cause people to dump a party from government. Yeah, this is a country where a majority do not even know how parliament works.. no one is going to rise up over the Conservatives not sharing and the opposition crying to their mommies about it Quote
Smallc Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Parliament (the people) is supreme over any elected government (particularily in a minority situation),when THEY ask for documents (in this case)... There should be no question over this... Definitely. Obviously though, not enough of the people in this country agreed with the representatives to keep the Conservatives from forming a majority in this parliament. Quote
Smallc Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Yeah, this is a country where a majority do not even know how parliament works.. no one is going to rise up over the Conservatives not sharing and the opposition crying to their mommies about it That's about right.... That said, I do know how parliament works, and I still didn't think that the Conservatives should be dumped over it. Simply put, I didn't and don't see a credible alternative. Quote
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 That's about right.... That said, I do know how parliament works, and I still didn't think that the Conservatives should be dumped over it. Simply put, I didn't and don't see a credible alternative. It sounds petty now doesn't it? lol Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Definitely. Obviously though, not enough of the people in this country agreed with the representatives to keep the Conservatives from forming a majority in this parliament. Or perhaps (and just my opinion),most people really don't understand how parliament works(or the arcane nature of the arguement),and simply decided that the arguements against Iggy,amongst others (He's not really here for you),for example,were easier to understand (see: took less thought processes),and gave in to the bumper sticker sloganeering that the current party in power is so good at? Edited March 8, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Or perhaps (and just my opinion),most people really don't understand how parliament works(or the arcane nature of the arguement),and simply decided that the arguements against Iggy,amongst others (He's not really here for you),for example,were easier to understand (see: took less thought processes),and gave in to the bumper sticker sloganeering that the current party in power is so good at? or they were tired of all the elections every year and just decides to end it all by giving harper a majority Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 or they were tired of all the elections every year and just decides to end it all by giving harper a majority I agree...But in hindsight,it's still a simplistic arguement... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
UofGPolitico Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Sorry John,but it actually is a big deal...At least a 400 year big deal...Parliament is supreme,particularily in a minority situation... The problem,as I saw it,was that the idea was a little too arcane for most people to grasp... And its supremacy was upheld, the opposition voted the government down on that issue. Outside of parliament, obviously the issue did not resonate with most voters. I am not saying it isn't issue, but we need to be realistic here. The party that made the biggest deal out of the issue was Liberals, the last party that should have been brow-beating over ethics and they paid the most at the ballot box. Edited March 8, 2012 by UofGPolitico Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 And its supremacy was upheld, the opposition voted the government down on that issue. Outside of parliament, obviously the issue did not resonate with most voters. I am not saying it isn't issue, but we need to be realistic here. The party that made the biggest deal out of the issue was Liberals, the last party that should have been brow-beating over ethics and they paid the most at the ballot box. I agree...On all counts...Nevertheless...The government was correctly caught in a Contempt of Parliament charge. The charge was serious,and proceedurially (sp),correct...My opinion is that most people don't realize the historical gravity of that charge,and simply dismissed it... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
olpfan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 My opinion is that most people don't realize the historical gravity of that charge,and simply dismissed it... The issue they were fighting over wasn't "sexy" enough for the public, had the conservatives been attacking our social values you're damn right the public would not have dismissed it..but the issue was conservatives weren't sharing documents with the opposition.. that to me, is boringggggg Quote
capricorn Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 or they were tired of all the elections every year and just decides to end it all by giving harper a majority It's not as one dimensional as that although election fatigue cannot be discounted as one element. The specter of a Liberal/NDP coalition government spooked a lot of voters and the Conservatives tapped into that sentiment. I recall Dion at a Liberal convention said in a speech "Liberals, we have to get to power as soon as possible". Canadians sense when a thirst for power is rooted mainly in self-serving interests. So they're giving the Conservatives a kick at the can while the opposition gets its act together. In 2015, Canadians will render a report card on the government. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
UofGPolitico Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 I agree...On all counts...Nevertheless...The government was correctly caught in a Contempt of Parliament charge. The charge was serious,and proceedurially (sp),correct...My opinion is that most people don't realize the historical gravity of that charge,and simply dismissed it... Oh, I agree. That's another debate in itself. The problem is the majority of Canadians really have no real clue what goes on within the walls of that old building, and really do not seem to give a damn. Its unfortunate. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 The issue they were fighting over wasn't "sexy" enough for the public, had the conservatives been attacking our social values you're damn right the public would not have dismissed it..but the issue was conservatives weren't sharing documents with the opposition.. that to me, is boringggggg I agree..On the surface,it's kinda boring...But when one gets into the historical nature of the issue and arguement,it's quite salient..And the result of that is unfortunate... I guess,in retrospect,we deserve the government we get because people aren't/weren't prepared to go beyond simplistic arguements... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
UofGPolitico Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 It's not as one dimensional as that although election fatigue cannot be discounted as one element. The specter of a Liberal/NDP coalition government spooked a lot of voters and the Conservatives tapped into that sentiment. I recall Dion at a Liberal convention said in a speech "Liberals, we have to get to power as soon as possible". Canadians sense when a thirst for power is rooted mainly in self-serving interests. So they're giving the Conservatives a kick at the can while the opposition gets its act together. In 2015, Canadians will render a report card on the government. I am not convinced right now that the opposition will be in any better of a position come 2015. Their support will still be VERY fragmented given the reluctance of both establishments to merge. Also, as polls are showing, Conservative base support is still very strong despite the scandals. If the economy is good, and neither the NDP or Liberals present themselves as a clearly viable option, I think another majority will be in the cards. But, its all hypothetical. Alot can happen. The opposition better hope and pray Harper and his cronies are conclusively tied to robocalls, because something like that will have to happen to send them packing I think. Quote
capricorn Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 I am not convinced right now that the opposition will be in any better of a position come 2015. We're way off topic, but what the heck. Actually, I am convinced the opposition won't be ready to unseat the government in 2015. Whoever is advising the Liberals and the NDP are leading them down the wrong track. Over the top shrieking, constant negativity and pointed allegations on the public stage isn't doing them any favours. Meanwhile, Conservatives are managing to govern the daily affairs of the state and advancing their priorities. I believe Canadians are generally of the opinion that the Conservatives are doing a good job minding the store. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I believe Canadians are generally of the opinion that the Conservatives are doing a good job minding the store. when you say Canadians are generally of the opinion that the conservatives are doing a good job minding the store you mean the ones that voted for them and maybe a few million extra whom did not vote Edited March 9, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
capricorn Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 when you say Canadians are generally of the opinion that the conservatives are doing a good job minding the store you mean the ones that voted for them and maybe a few million extra whom did not vote I mean the millions who didn't turn out at the robocall protests. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I mean the millions who didn't turn out at the robocall protests. you better hope no conservative was behind any of that..im talking volunteers, anybody who worked on the campaigns or else it will turn into a big deal and not just a big deal to the opposition parties it doesn't have to be an MP that gets caught Edited March 9, 2012 by olpfan1 Quote
capricorn Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 you better hope no conservative was behind any of that.. We'll find out in time. Meanwhile, I won't lose any sleep over it. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
olpfan1 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 We'll find out in time. Meanwhile, I won't lose any sleep over it. I have no faith that E.C & the RCMP would find anything even if there was stuff to be found We need a public inquiry to get to the bottom of what happened Quote
Bryan Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 I agree...On all counts...Nevertheless...The government was correctly caught in a Contempt of Parliament charge. The charge was serious,and proceedurially (sp),correct...My opinion is that most people don't realize the historical gravity of that charge,and simply dismissed it... It was a stupid stunt by the opposition, nothing more. Canadians saw through their ridiculous rhetoric, and made them pay for it. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 9, 2012 Report Posted March 9, 2012 It was a stupid stunt by the opposition, nothing more. Canadians saw through their ridiculous rhetoric, and made them pay for it. Says the guy who pays his money to get the government he wants... Partisan drivel...No cred,kid... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
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