.

[Guest Derek L]

When NDP Comartin, Liberal Garneau and Conservative Del Mastro were on QP today, I picked up on something Del Mastro said that flew right over their heads. (Or maybe I'm wrong and they were playing dumb.) To make the point that not all 31,000 "contacts" EC said they received were necessarily legitimate, he said one of the "contacts" sent to EC was in the name of "Harry Potter". A few pages ago, I posted info on a robo email campaign mounted by leadnow.ca urging individuals to contact EC to demand a public inquiry. I then realized the Conservatives were probably already aware of that campaign and have been monitoring the leadnow.ca site to estimate how many of those names were bogus. They may have uncovered other information in the process.

So like you, I think the Conservatives are on to something. If my gut is right, IMO, they will not make it public themselves but whatever it is they may leak it to the media. And we know the media are hungry as wolves for a story.

Let me check...yup, as you instructed Derek, shiny side of the foil in the outward position.

That’s an interesting point and as “they” say, only time will tell…………Also, not to leave you with confusion on the proper usage of your tin-foil hat………When conducting an outside search, you’d be best advised to reverse your hat so as to allow the reflective properties of said hat to help channel and focus your brain’s electrical field………..But once done, quickly switch it back.

[capricorn]

I know of a Harry Potter... and I would imagine there are a few Harry Potters in Canada..

Quite right madmax. My main point though is that the Conservatives may well have access to the list of names going on that robo email campaign.

As I posted earlier, the total number of messages sent to EC/RCMP as released by EC was 31,000 and that is almost exactly the same number of messages leadnow.ca showed on its site at approximately the same time as EC's news release. I just checked and the number of signatures now stands at 39,000. So, if the vast majority of those 39,000 messages all consist of the form letter/message supplied by leadnow.ca requesting a public inquiry, that would make EC's job a lot easier since those signatories are not reporting info about a specific incident. I'm not saying that there are no robo call complaints that require investigation, far from it. I'm saying that the number that need investigation may not in fact stand at the 31,000 received by EC.

[capricorn]

I don't think the Conservatives " Know " anything. They certainly have dropped the ball practically every single day since this story rebroke...

The Conservatives were on the right track the first couple of days, i.e. "these allegations are serious and anyone with information should turn it over to EC". After that things disintegrated into finger pointing and accusations back and forth.

[capricorn]

That’s an interesting point and as “they” say, only time will tell…………

At this point I want someone, anyone, please tell us what's going on.

Also, not to leave you with confusion on the proper usage of your tin-foil hat………When conducting an outside search, you’d be best advised to reverse your hat so as to allow the reflective properties of said hat to help channel and focus your brain’s electrical field………..But once done, quickly switch it back.

Oh hell, I don't have any tin foil left over to cover my chicken cooking in the oven.

[cybercoma]

Remember when Stephen Harper was accused of breaking the election laws by campaigning on election day during a radio interview in Vancouver?

During the interview Stephen Harper contravined the Elections Canada Act by stating that "It is certain that I will vote, and I encourage all other people to vote, and I encourage people to do the same as me and vote Conservative."

Continue reading on Examiner.com Stephen Harper breaks election rules, campaigns on radio on election day - Canada Canada Headlines | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/canada-headlines-in-canada/stephen-harper-breaks-election-rules-campaigns-on-radio-on-election-day#ixzz1oD94esHy

[Shakeyhands]

Remember when Stephen Harper was accused of breaking the election laws by campaigning on election day during a radio interview in Vancouver?

The Conservatives haven't shown a lot of respect for any of our rules in the past. It's always an "interpretation" of the rules etc... This is why I think a lot of people think that they are behind this as well. it's not really surprising despite what the Booster Club (and their tin foil jokes) think.

[Guest Derek L]

At this point I want someone, anyone, please tell us what's going on.

Oh hell, I don't have any tin foil left over to cover my chicken cooking in the oven.

Clearly true tin hatters prefer their chicken grilled or BBQ

[capricorn]

Clearly true tin hatters prefer their chicken grilled or BBQ

No can do. I'm in a condo and it's against the rules to BBQ on the balcony. Oh, oh, did I just disclose my location to cyber snoops?

[Guest Derek L]

No can do. I'm in a condo and it's against the rules to BBQ on the balcony. Oh, oh, did I just disclose my location to cyber snoops?

One option perhaps

[capricorn]

One option perhaps

With or without hot coals? I'm logging off to avoid further detection.

[olpfan1]

Remember when Stephen Harper was accused of breaking the election laws by campaigning on election day during a radio interview in Vancouver?

Show harper an election rule he has not broken yet and he will see it as a challenge

Edited March 5, 2012 by olpfan1

[huh]

Remember when Stephen Harper was accused of breaking the election laws by campaigning on election day during a radio interview in Vancouver?

haha lol wowow, that seals it, their guilty.

[huh]

1.How did the fraudsters specifically target opposition voters in order to misdirect them on e-day - i.e. where did the callers get their numbers from? They may have very well compiled the numbers based on previous robocalls where they solicited voter intention. If Racknine was used to gather voter intention data, Racknine would have log records of all calls made and the results of the calls - i.e. a copy of the lists.The Cons also maintain a national database which is fed from a number of sources. If the fraudsters didn't get the numbers from Racknine, another robocalling service provider or the central Con campaign, where did the numberse come from? For me, this is the central question that could implicate the Conservative Party or its operatives or rogues.

2.If Racknine or another robocall service provider was involved in voter intention calls, who actually managed that first round of calls to build the lists? The local campaigns? The central campaign? From where? Did Racknine or other providers just hand over total control. Does their robocalling product have a "user interface" for non-professionals? Did the Conservatives hire a person or people to manage all aspects of the "legitimate" calling (call design, scripts, reporting, scheduling, etc)? Was this done by volunteers? What kind of advice did Racknine or other providers give?

3.Did the same people who put the lists together manage the e-day calling? If not, how did they get the numbers? Don't get distracted by whether or not the service providers were based in Canada or not. That is a red herring.

4.Who had access to the detailed results of any voter intention exercise? Were the results centralized or held at the riding campaign level? Were they provided to a Third Party? If so, was the Third Party registered and audited by Elections Canada? (they would have to be if they spent more than $5,000). If it wasn't a Third Party, then it would have to be the Conservatives - rogue or not because they were the beneficiaries.

5.Racknine must have been aware that its servers were being used on E-day. While clients can legitimately call voters to remind them that it's voting day, they can't "advertise" for or against any candidate or party. Does Racknine do due diligence to inform their clients about these limitations? How much traffic was on their system on E-day? How much of it was not related to the fraudulent calls? Was traffic higher or lower than a "typical" e-day? Also, some of the fraud calls were made before e-day.

6.Where are the log reports of the E-day (or pre-E-day) misdirection calls? These records should show which numbers were called, how many people answered the phone and how long they stayed on the line. This would be vital information if there are any challenges to the results if the number of completed calls was greater than the margin of victory. Racknine would have access to that information for Guelph which has been tied to their servers through Pierre Poutine. I would imagine that Elections Canada got a hold of it in their investigation but wouldn't take anything for granted.

Clearly you need to provide your services to EC and the RCMP, they wont be able to figure this out without you.

[Guest Derek L]

With or without hot coals? I'm logging off to avoid further detection.

In these parts, we’re more accustomed to cedar planking with natural gas

[Shakeyhands]

Ahhhh... I see. The Booster Club has been reduced to trying to pass this all off as conspiracy theories by crazy people, ridicule and silly comments.

Nice.

[madmax]

The point here is that every political party telemarkets their party's message with robocalls.

Some people hate telemarketing and hangup on the call. No one is forcing a person to listen to a telemarketing robocall.

Or go to the wrong polling stations

[cybercoma]

The point here is that every political party telemarkets their party's message with robocalls.

Really? You think the problem is using robocallers in general?

They misdirected voters to polling stations at addresses that didn't even exist or were more than 1hr away from their real polls. The second problem is the live calls that alleged they were from campaigns, even though they weren't, and harassed voters. The third issue, which has been dropped by the media for some reason, is Stephen Harper going on the radio and asking people to vote Conservative on election day.

Nobody cares whether or not a party uses pre-recorded messages through a robocaller.

[mentalfloss]

Is G&M in the pocket of conservatives now? They seem to think that using a logical failure of a talking point is credible. Case in point: Looking at the total number of successful votes does not mean that those dissuaded from voting do not exist!

This is a complete logic fail.

If robo-calls were meant to keep voters away, they failed miserably

Edited March 5, 2012 by mentalfloss

[Boges]

Really? You think the problem is using robocallers in general?

They misdirected voters to polling stations at addresses that didn't even exist or were more than 1hr away from their real polls. The second problem is the live calls that alleged they were from campaigns, even though they weren't, and harassed voters. The third issue, which has been dropped by the media for some reason, is Stephen Harper going on the radio and asking people to vote Conservative on election day.

Nobody cares whether or not a party uses pre-recorded messages through a robocaller.

"Harassing" voters isn't illegal. Because it's subjective, I got plenty of robocalls from the Liberal lady that ran in my riding, I could easily call that harrassing.

I don't believe EC is investigating that.

The only evidence regarding sending idiots (and they are idiots if they believe a robocall immediately complaint to EC when they find out they've been duped) to different polling stations is in Guelph.

Hardly a widespread Conservative conspiracy.

[Topaz]

For all you who keep saying tinfoil and conspiracy theories, some of us want to debate with an open mind, it could be ANY of the parties or neither, someone from outside, like the Chinese,the Bloc. The party with the most wrong doing is the Tories, they did it to themselves and all their supporters have to suck that up. The term innocence until proven guilty, well the Tories have always said they were innocence, THEN they were proven guilty!! So there`s nothing wrong in bring forth ideas and view of which party it could be and I would think that Tories supporters on here would want to know as much of the rest of us who really did it. My only question to the Tories supporters is, IF, we find out it was the Tories, would you vote again for them??

[Boges]

My only question to the Tories supporters is, IF, we find out it was the Tories, would you vote again for them??

Well depends on the economic situation in 2015 and who the Liberal leader is, and what he's proposing.

Also if this is just some low-level Tory staffers in Guelph it hardly discriminates the entire party.

[scribblet]

For all you who keep saying tinfoil and conspiracy theories, some of us want to debate with an open mind, it could be ANY of the parties or neither, someone from outside, like the Chinese,the Bloc. The party with the most wrong doing is the Tories, they did it to themselves and all their supporters have to suck that up. The term innocence until proven guilty, well the Tories have always said they were innocence, THEN they were proven guilty!! So there`s nothing wrong in bring forth ideas and view of which party it could be and I would think that Tories supporters on here would want to know as much of the rest of us who really did it. My only question to the Tories supporters is, IF, we find out it was the Tories, would you vote again for them??

Good question, don't know, but it would depend on exactly what they did, meaning that if it was the party itself who organized and condoned something, and what the other parties platforms are then. It would also hinge on facts and not supposition and it not being just a couple of supporters. I'm not sure I could hold my nose and vote for the Liberals, and the NDP are out of the question. If there was an independent running I'd probably park my vote there.

So far out all of this hyperbole and umpteen pages, there's nothing, zilch nada of any evidence pointing to the party. Can anyone say how many voters actually didn't vote because of this, not to mention that the two ridings in question Guelph and Northbay were won by the opposition.

Edited March 5, 2012 by scribblet

[jefferiah]

They misdirected voters to polling stations at addresses that didn't even exist or were more than 1hr away from their real polls. The second problem is the live calls that alleged they were from campaigns, even though they weren't, and harassed voters.

Telemarketing firms which do political polling have terrible info in their databases. They can hardly identify their own supporters accurately, let alone another party's. They have wrong names to match phone numbers, sometimes of tenants who lived at the address like 10 years ago. They get ridings wrong all the time.

My guess is that people being directed to the wrong polling stations were actually due to mistakes in the system. Doubly so, because their MO is to contact conservative supporters. It would make little sense for them to attempt something like this, because in all likelihood they would be misdirecting just as many Conservative voters.

Edited March 5, 2012 by jefferiah

[capricorn]

some of us want to debate with an open mind,....The party with the most wrong doing is the Tories,

[capricorn]

Is G&M in the pocket of conservatives now? They seem to think that using a logical failure of a talking point is credible. Case in point: Looking at the total number of successful votes does not mean that those dissuaded from voting do not exist!

This is a complete logic fail.

If robo-calls were meant to keep voters away, they failed miserably

The article's author is Eric Grenier of 308. He has a pretty good reputation of being good with numbers. From your link.

Tales of voter suppression in the last federal election have emerged across the country. But while ridings alleged to have been targeted by these tactics were won by smaller margins than those not implicated, an analysis of these ridings indicates voter turnout was higher, not lower, than elsewhere in Canada.

In almost 70 ridings from every region of the country, allegations have been made that voters were falsely directed to polling stations by “robo-calls” or were harassed at all hours of the night by rude live callers posing as representatives of the Liberal Party.

---

But an analysis of these ridings shows turnout averaged 61.6 per cent, slightly higher than the 60.9 per cent average turnout in ridings where no allegations of impropriety have been reported. If we only focus on the ridings in which allegations of misleading robo-calls have been made, the turnout averaged 62 per cent.

Grenier also said:

If these allegations of voter suppression tactics are indeed true, they do not appear to have been very successful.

I fail to see how you can conclude that the Globe and Mail is in the pocket of Conservatives simply because Grenier analyzed the numbers.