madmax Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well it will be up to those women and to men to decide the policy according to Smith. I think not.. in the end.. it will be back before he courts and the whole charade will be a waste of time. I believe that a womans right to security of person will trump anything the WildRose come up with... ----------- The court noted that it was mostly men that were deciding if a woman should have an abortion. The Court also recognized that the rules resulted in varying levels of abortion availability, depending on the city, province or territory. The law also resulted in middle class and affluent women having better chances to obtain an abortion. The existence of private clinics meant that women who had enough money ----------- not only is it not illegal, but access is going to be a factor and that was also determined when doctors wouldn't perform or refer women to proper clinics. We will see how this plays out.. but the WR may have just shot themselves in the foot. It may keep them from getting a Majority, just so they can play to a Social Conservative Base and pretend to be Libertarian about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalfloss Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Watched the debate.. All the candidates save for the NDP guy sounded dumb as nails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Some people agree that abortions should be covered by the government, while others feel it should be paid for by the person having the abortion. Most or many abortions are not medically necessary, but supposedly are required to be insured by “Alberta Health and Wellness”. Emergency medical services or ambulance services are medically necessary, but apparently are not required to be insured by “Alberta Health and Wellness”. Edited April 13, 2012 by dpwozney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Watched the debate.. All the candidates save for the NDP guy sounded dumb as nails. Did they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Then why is her party policy to hold referendums on abortion and in the meantime delist it, which means if you want an aboirtion you pay out of pocket? Many people have to pay for emergency medical services or ambulance services out of pocket. Emergency medical services or ambulance services are medically necessary. Most or many abortions are not medically necessary. Edited April 13, 2012 by dpwozney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Most or many abortions are not medically necessary. the stated Wildrose intent to delist abortion services is a non-starter... Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada: Abortion Is a "Medically Required" Service and Cannot be Delisted What does "medically required" mean?The federal government or the courts have never defined what “medically necessary” means, other than the circular definition in the Canada Health Act — "medically necessary is that which is physician performed". The provinces decide what is medically necessary under the Act, by creating a list of insured services, which are then automatically deemed medically necessary. In practice, however, politicians alone do not decide what is medically necessary; listed services must be negotiated between physicians and government. So even if a province wanted to delist abortion, it would have to get the cooperation of a medical organization, usually the College of Physicians and Surgeons or the provincial chapter of the Canadian Medical Association. Women’s lives and health are at stake Abortion services are a critical component of public health programs, since many women will otherwise risk their lives to obtain unsafe, illegal abortions. Legal abortion literally saves women's lives and protects their health, making the service an integral part of women's reproductive health care. (No Choice: Canadian Women Tell Their Stories of Illegal Abortion. Edited/published by Childbirth by Choice Trust, 1998.) Abortion is not an elective procedure Pregnancy outcomes are inescapable and time-sensitive. Neither childbirth nor abortion are "elective" because unlike elective procedures, a pregnant woman cannot simply cancel the outcome, or wait till next year. Once a woman is pregnant, she must decide relatively quickly to either give birth or have an abortion. Abortion in particular is very time-sensitive. Even waiting a few weeks increases the medical risk of the procedure. Dr. Henry Morgentaler has said: "Every week of delay increases the medical risks to women by 20 percent." All abortions are "medically required," not just some All abortions are medically required because health is defined broadly in our society. It encompasses not just physical health, but mental and emotional health as well. Besides, it is impossible in practice to split abortion into two categories of medically required or not, based on women's reasons for abortion. Anti-choice people want to limit funding to abortions performed to save the woman’s life or in cases of rape/incest, but the doctors who actually perform abortions would attest that all abortions are medically necessary. The government and medical profession cannot bridge this gap and reach a "compromise." In fact, the lesson learned in Alberta in 1995 was that these groups refuse to go along with the government when it tries to delist some or all abortions. Physician groups do not want to formally define any categories, because they believe such things should be left to the discretion of individual doctors. It's a matter of professional medical judgment, based on the patient's particular circumstances and needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 the stated Wildrose intent to delist abortion services is a non-starter... They don't intend to delist abortions. They've said a citizen led referendum could happen on the issue but they won't legislate on it themselves. I don't agree with delisting abortions but I don't really have an issue with their policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 the stated Wildrose intent to delist abortion services is a non-starter... In your view, should emergency medical services or ambulance services, which are medically necessary, be delisted, as they currently are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Abortion services are a critical component of public health programs, since many women will otherwise risk their lives to obtain unsafe, illegal abortions. Delisting abortion services does not mean that abortion services would no longer be safe and available. Emergency medical services or ambulance services are delisted, and emergency medical services or ambulance services are still available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 So Traveller, How confident are you right now that Albertans won't vote the "right wing, backwards, religious freaks called Wildrose" into power? You've been spouting about it forever and pretty much guaranteeing the result will be PC - because they're so centrist. 46% in the polls as of today. Doesn't quite sound like the bitch-slap you've been predicting. Any comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 So Traveller, How confident are you right now that Albertans won't vote the "right wing, backwards, religious freaks called Wildrose" into power? You've been spouting about it forever and pretty much guaranteeing the result will be PC - because they're so centrist. 46% in the polls as of today. Doesn't quite sound like the bitch-slap you've been predicting. Any comments? For someone who was so sure of themselves Traveller's predictions aren't going so well with only one week left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewTeddy Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Polls have been steady (when averaged) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 During the televised debate, reference was made to supposed “same-sex marriage” rights. If a government does not call a same-sex relationship a marriage, what rights have to be allegedly denied to the people in the same-sex relationship? If a government does not call a same-sex relationship a marriage, why can’t the people in the same-sex relationship have just as many rights, and the same rights, that they would have if the government did call their same-sex relationship a marriage? With all the problems of recognition of so-called “same-sex marriages” in various other jurisdictions, and people residing in various other jurisdictions being unable to get so-called “same-sex divorces”, obviously, a so-called “same-sex marriage” is not the same thing as an opposite-sex marriage. Having different words, to refer to different things, is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 During the televised debate, reference was made to supposed “same-sex marriage” rights. If a government does not call a same-sex relationship a marriage, what rights have to be allegedly denied to the people in the same-sex relationship? If a government does not call a same-sex relationship a marriage, why can’t the people in the same-sex relationship have just as many rights, and the same rights, that they would have if the government did call their same-sex relationship a marriage? With all the problems of recognition of so-called “same-sex marriages” in various other jurisdictions, and people residing in various other jurisdictions being unable to get so-called “same-sex divorces”, obviously, a so-called “same-sex marriage” is not the same thing as an opposite-sex marriage. Having different words, to refer to different things, is a good thing. It is very nearly a done deal in Alberta. The PC's are going down, bank on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) It is very nearly a done deal in Alberta. The PC's are going down, bank on it. What is “very nearly a done deal” in the “Province of Alberta”, other than the PC’s going down? Edited April 15, 2012 by dpwozney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Having an abortion is so controversial that even the most pro-choice person must recognize that it's not just a "normal" procedure. I recognize it's as normal as wearing a condom, pulling out, taking the pill, using an IUD, abstaining from sex and using the timing method. These are all different ways women and men have to control when they have a child and so is abortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 They don't intend to delist abortions. They've said a citizen led referendum could happen on the issue but they won't legislate on it themselves. I don't agree with delisting abortions but I don't really have an issue with their policy. You can't host a referendum to strip someone of their rights. Women already won the court battle some 25 years ago. Life, liberty, and security of the person trump any referendum that WR thinks they will have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 Delisting abortion services does not mean that abortion services would no longer be safe and available.It means they will only be available to those that can afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Circle Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 You can't host a referendum to strip someone of their rights. Women already won the court battle some 25 years ago. Life, liberty, and security of the person trump any referendum that WR thinks they will have. Nobody from the Wildrose intends to have a referendum on something like this. This is just fear monger stuff from the pcaa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundlander Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 You can't host a referendum to strip someone of their rights. Women already won the court battle some 25 years ago. Life, liberty, and security of the person trump any referendum that WR thinks they will have. The Alberta government does not have to fund abortions though. Danielle Smith says her government would not delist funding for abortions but a citizen led referendum could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) The Alberta government does not have to fund abortions though. Danielle Smith says her government would not delist funding for abortions but a citizen led referendum could. They can't delist it, it is a Charter right. They would lose a Charter Challenge easy. This is why PEI and NB pay for abortions Morgentaler et al. v. Her Majesty The Queen 1988 Edited April 15, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 It means they will only be available to those that can afford it. Emergency medical services or ambulance services are delisted, and emergency medical services or ambulance services are still available to those who cannot afford it, at the time. Delisting abortion services does not mean that abortion services would no longer be safe and available to those who cannot afford it, at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Emergency medical services or ambulance services are delisted, and emergency medical services or ambulance services are still available to those who cannot afford it, at the time. Delisting abortion services does not mean that abortion services would no longer be safe and available to those who cannot afford it, at the time. Again abortion has been ruled to be a Charter right. It is one of only a few Medicare services to be ruled a charter right. Are you saying the Wildrose Party will not honor the rights which are outlined in our charter because I think that would be a huge deal. Edited April 15, 2012 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Are you saying the Wildrose Party will not honor the rights which are outlined in our charter because I think that would be a huge deal. I don’t speak for the “Wildrose Party”, nor am I speaking for the “Wildrose Party”. However, according to CBC News, “Wildrose Leader Danielle Smith said she has absolutely no intention of legislating on abortion, and that includes delisting”. Edited April 15, 2012 by dpwozney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 I don’t speak for the “Wildrose Party”, nor am I speaking for the “Wildrose Party”. Well if you think they can delist abortion then you think they can violate other charter rights as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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