Guest Peeves Posted February 8, 2012 Report Posted February 8, 2012 Our unemployment number is going up while our open job numbers are too! "Tain't right! That suggest the immigrants coming in are unsuited to Canada's job market. That also suggests that we are funding students in the wrong educational degree choices. No sense bringing in someone that won't/cant work, can't fit the job market. No sense funding someone going to university for a degree in history or the arts if there's no job market? If they are studying something because it's what they like but impractical, even frivolous, why should they get any support with tax dollars? If an immigrant won't eventually be a plus for Canada's tax system rather than a drag on the tax payer..health costs, housing, etc. why would you invite them. I realize these are seemingly two differing things, but, if someone comes out of university with a degree that's useless in terms of future employment they should pay for it themselves. If an immigrant is more likely to be a drain than an asset, leave them where they are. OK I have that fixed. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/immigration-policy-canada-history-administration-and-debates Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 8, 2012 Report Posted February 8, 2012 That suggest the immigrants coming in are unsuited to Canada's job market. How's that ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
CPCFTW Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Our unemployment number is going up while our open job numbers are too! "Tain't right! That suggest the immigrants coming in are unsuited to Canada's job market. That also suggests that we are funding students in the wrong educational degree choices. No sense bringing in someone that won't/cant work, can't fit the job market. No sense funding someone going to university for a degree in history or the arts if there's no job market? If they are studying something because it's what they like but impractical, even frivolous, why should they get any support with tax dollars? If an immigrant won't eventually be a plus for Canada's tax system rather than a drag on the tax payer..health costs, housing, etc. why would you invite them. I realize these are seemingly two differing things, but, if someone comes out of university with a degree that's useless in terms of future employment they should pay for it themselves. If an immigrant is more likely to be a drain than an asset, leave them where they are. OK I have that fixed. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/immigration-policy-canada-history-administration-and-debates Very good points. Subsidization of university education should be directly correlated to private sector employability and job sector needs upon graduation. I bet student loan interest rates could also be further reduced if there were less arts grads defaulting on their loans by fleeing to Europe and Southeast Asia to "broaden their horizons". I don't think there is any reasonable explanation for why philosophy degrees are subsidized to the same extent as engineering degrees. If people want to become lawyers/doctors, etc., they shouldn't have a taxpayer funded 3 year party in undergrad to learn Kant's categorical imperative. People should have to learn something useful in undergrad or pay the full cost of their useless degree. Edited February 9, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote
waldo Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 I bet student loan interest rates could also be further reduced if there were less arts grads defaulting on their loans by fleeing to Europe and Southeast Asia to "broaden their horizons". oh surprise! Another of your ongoing string of rants against arts education/grads... care to step up and qualify your statement on loan defaults - sure you can, hey? Quote
jacee Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 Very good points. Subsidization of university education should be directly correlated to private sector employability and job sector needs upon graduation. I bet student loan interest rates could also be further reduced if there were less arts grads defaulting on their loans by fleeing to Europe and Southeast Asia to "broaden their horizons". I don't think there is any reasonable explanation for why philosophy degrees are subsidized to the same extent as engineering degrees. If people want to become lawyers/doctors, etc., they shouldn't have a taxpayer funded 3 year party in undergrad to learn Kant's categorical imperative. People should have to learn something useful in undergrad or pay the full cost of their useless degree. Unfortunately, postsecondary institutions that have tried gearing program enrolments to employer needs have not been successful ... in some cases disastrous. It appears that employers aren't very accurate in their estimates of what they'll need a few years down the road. They also fail to mention that they will only want to hire people with experience, not straight out of college ... Canadian employers are laziest and cheapest in the developed world about training people for jobs. They spend very little money on training compared to eg Germany. They're always demanding that the governments 'do something' about skills training but do they contribute? No. They demand that the government provide them with employees trained to their needs, whatever those are. Their sense of entitlement is outrageous! Quote
Wild Bill Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 Canadian employers are laziest and cheapest in the developed world about training people for jobs. They spend very little money on training compared to eg Germany. They're always demanding that the governments 'do something' about skills training but do they contribute? No. They demand that the government provide them with employees trained to their needs, whatever those are. Their sense of entitlement is outrageous! Once again, if you live long enough you get to see how the story gets changed! I graduated from grade 13 in the class of 70-71. That was also the year Mohawk College opened. The Ontario Community Colleges were just starting up. Industry was encouraged to support these colleges and they did so with much money and donated equipment. The story industry was given was that these new colleges would be training students for them! They would be taught by teachers fresh from industry! Companies would save a fortune on training costs and greatly reduced training times for new workers! Now all these years later, the same teachers are still there, teaching the young folks! They're not likely to be quite as much in touch with modern industry as they were in 70-71. Oh well, they have a good union and it looked after them! Now someone like you criticizes industry for not spending enough on training, as if the situation is all the fault of industry. Ain't it always the way! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Topaz Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 It's hard to understand any government that doesn't do a better job with helping the provinces to create jobs since it benefits them with incoming revenues, which is the reason they are using for OAS. In a recent article Alberta, is bring in workers from Ireland to work in the gas and oil, probably engineers I would think. I'm sure there are Canadians that can to the job and other kinds of jobs available but may not have to means to move and I think a company would help these workers within Canada first, before getting international workers. Quote
Bonam Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 It's hard to understand any government that doesn't do a better job with helping the provinces to create jobs since it benefits them with incoming revenues, which is the reason they are using for OAS. In a recent article Alberta, is bring in workers from Ireland to work in the gas and oil, probably engineers I would think. I'm sure there are Canadians that can to the job and other kinds of jobs available but may not have to means to move and I think a company would help these workers within Canada first, before getting international workers. A few of my friends got jobs there right after undergrad. No problem at all. $250k right out of college with a Bachelor's degree to go work as engineers in the Alberta oil industry. Anyone with an offer like that certainly has "the means to move" regardless of their prior financial situation. If companies were willing to make offers like that to people just coming out of college, I'm pretty sure there was a real shortage of willing applicants. Quote
guyser Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 A few of my friends got jobs there right after undergrad. No problem at all. $250k right out of college with a Bachelor's degree to go work as engineers in the Alberta oil industry. Not to harsh on your 'friends' but I wouldnt believe them, at the very least 'right out of college'. This site agrees.At the highest level of responsibility, grade level F is Senior Mngmt with authority over several professions. That aint no recent grad pay. http://www.apegga.com/pdf/SalarySurvey/VPS2011.pdf Alberta Prof Engineers 2011 salary survey. Quote
Bonam Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 Not to harsh on your 'friends' but I wouldnt believe them, at the very least 'right out of college'. This site agrees.At the highest level of responsibility, grade level F is Senior Mngmt with authority over several professions. That aint no recent grad pay. http://www.apegga.com/pdf/SalarySurvey/VPS2011.pdf Alberta Prof Engineers 2011 salary survey. This was 2008, pay was higher then. Also, public stats tell far from the whole story when it comes to pay in many professions. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 Canadian employers are laziest and cheapest in the developed world about training people for jobs. They spend very little money on training compared to eg Germany. They're always demanding that the governments 'do something' about skills training but do they contribute? No. They demand that the government provide them with employees trained to their needs, whatever those are. Their sense of entitlement is outrageous! You make no mention of those most responsiblefor ensuring that workers have the necessary training and skills to compete in the job market: individuals. It is the fault of business. No, let us blame the govt. Great stuff. Keep it up. Quote The government should do something.
guyser Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 This was 2008, pay was higher then. Also, public stats tell far from the whole story when it comes to pay in many professions. The pay hasnt been cut in half from 2008. Two cocktail rules to live by, whenever one tells you how much they are paid, cut it in half. Whenever they tell you how much they paid, take 30% off...or more. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) How's that ? Weeeellll, Canada's job market is not being met by immigrants. "There aren't enough workers to the job openings "in Alberta particularly in the skilled trades. The mining industry will need 100,000 workers in the next 8 years;150,000 construction workers will retire in the next three years. Welders are needed in B.C. and even retailers and hoteliers are worried they cant fill positions.." At the same time there are parts of the country where unemployment is 15%. We have a country of jobs without people and at the same time people without jobs. Source N.P. by Ivanson " E.I. impeding labor mobility." this date. They're always a day behind me.. Yet also from the same days paper..By line, KHEIRIDDIN, Our immigration has a negative net contribution to our governments coffers. Fraser institute calculates immigrants represent an ANNUAL 'fiscal burden " of $ 25 billion to taxpayers. They get more than their taxes pay for in our "Welfare State." It stands to reason I suggest, that we should not accept low earning immigrants, and we should be training ( paying for-subsidizing-) trades workers in our education facilities, not pie in the sky idealists wanting a subsidized degree in a near useless subject. " Western Canada now suffers from a labor shortage. E.I discourages Canadians from moving there." Brad Wall, Premier of Sask. He continues, "In some regions a person can work just over 10 weeks and receive ALMOST A YEAR"'S WORTH OF E.I BENEFITS." Ivison National post; Con'td Mr. Beatty, a former Mulroney-era Conservative Cabinet minister, said the federal government should stop believing its own “propaganda” about the economy, and embark on a series of initiatives that address the issues of labour mobility and skills. He called for the government to revamp the EI program that provides disincentives for people to move. A quick glance at the 58 EI economic regions, and their widely disparate qualification requirements, makes his point. After all, why would anyone move from rural Newfoundland, eastern Nova Scotia, or northern New Brunswick when they can work a mere 420 hours and take the rest of the year off? Mr. Beatty said the Chamber proposes an end to the current system that makes it easier to qualify for EI in areas of high unemployment, in favour of one that treats jobless workers equally. Heading in the right direction (poster) "The Conservative government has made some positive moves to improve labour mobility and skills. On the immigration file, the plan is to attract more skilled immigrants who can speak English or French, and permit fewer family-class members to come to Canada." And our Dalton isn't helping... But policies that help match people to jobs are rare indeed. Take Ontario, which has lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs in the past decade.In this circumstance, you might imagine the Ontario government is pulling out all the stops to increase the size of its skilled labour pool. If so, you’d be wrong. The provincial government in Ontario is so obliged to the unions for their support and relative quiescence, it has failed to introduce reforms that would increase the number of apprentices, even though the province will eventually experience its own skilled labour shortages. Dalton McGuinty’s government has established the College of Trades to set apprentice ratios in the province. Vested interest has sought to keep the ratio of journeymen to apprentices at a much higher rate in Ontario than in other provinces, in order to drive up wages. In Ontario, there are five journeymen bricklayers for every apprentice, compared with one to one in Nova Scotia and one to two in Alberta. The cumulative effect of these policy missteps is to threaten Canada’s new engine of economic growth in the West. That's how. Edited February 9, 2012 by Peeves Quote
Argus Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) There is piss poor cooperation or coordination between industry and education on what industry needs or how it can be supplied by government. And it's also true that industry wants highly skilled employees who have at least ten years of experience and are willing to work for almost nothing. Industry sucks at training people almost as badly as colleges do. And the federal government sucks at identifying what skills are actually needed, and matching that up with immigrants. It's EI policies also discourage workers from leaving areas without jobs and going to those with them. All of that is well known. The question is who is going to do anything about it? What's needed is a coordinated understanding of the job needs here among all the major players. Edited February 9, 2012 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest Peeves Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 There is piss poor cooperation or coordination between industry and education on what industry needs or how it can be supplied by government. And it's also true that industry wants highly skilled employees who have at least ten years of experience and are willing to work for almost nothing. Industry sucks at training people almost as badly as colleges do. And the federal government sucks at identifying what skills are actually needed, and matching that up with immigrants. It's EI policies also discourage workers from leaving areas without jobs and going to those with them. All of that is well known. The question is who is going to do anything about it? I keep trying, but you know what it's like pinning a politician down without tar and feathers. Quote
WWWTT Posted February 9, 2012 Report Posted February 9, 2012 I think you titled your thread incorrectly Peeves. Usually when the unemployment rate goes up then the government gets critisized for not doing enough to help create jobs. WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Guest Peeves Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 I think you titled your thread incorrectly Peeves. Usually when the unemployment rate goes up then the government gets critisized for not doing enough to help create jobs. WWWTT A rose by any other name........ Quote
Guest Peeves Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 There is piss poor cooperation or coordination between industry and education on what industry needs or how it can be supplied by government. And it's also true that industry wants highly skilled employees who have at least ten years of experience and are willing to work for almost nothing. Industry sucks at training people almost as badly as colleges do. And the federal government sucks at identifying what skills are actually needed, and matching that up with immigrants. It's EI policies also discourage workers from leaving areas without jobs and going to those with them. All of that is well known. The question is who is going to do anything about it? What's needed is a coordinated understanding of the job needs here among all the major players. Federal? Look closer to home, and look too at unions (influence.) And our Dalton isn't helping...Quote But policies that help match people to jobs are rare indeed. Take Ontario, which has lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs in the past decade. In this circumstance, you might imagine the Ontario government is pulling out all the stops to increase the size of its skilled labour pool. If so, you’d be wrong. The provincial government in Ontario is so obliged to the unions for their support and relative quiescence, it has failed to introduce reforms that would increase the number of apprentices, even though the province will eventually experience its own skilled labour shortages. Dalton McGuinty’s government has established the College of Trades to set apprentice ratios in the province. Vested interest has sought to keep the ratio of journeymen to apprentices at a much higher rate in Ontario than in other provinces, in order to drive up wages. In Ontario, there are five journeymen bricklayers for every apprentice, compared with one to one in Nova Scotia and one to two in Alberta. The cumulative effect of these policy missteps is to threaten Canada’s new engine of economic growth in the West. Quote
Argus Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 Federal? Look closer to home, and look too at unions (influence.) It is universal. You can blame the feds for recruiting immigrants whose skills are either not in demand or not transferable here. You can blame the provinces for their lousy education systems. You can blame companies for refusing to train properly. And yes, in some cases you can blame unions who prefer to have a shortage so as to increase pay rates. But in the end, the responsibility is government. The government makes the decisions, at both levels. And they're doing a lousy job of it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
WWWTT Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 A rose by any other name........ What is that supposed to mean? What does a Shakespeare quote from Romeo and Juliet have to do with Canadian politics? You know who was good at acting in Stradford?William Shatner! A ...Rose ...By ...Any ...Other ...Name ...Mr.Spock! Maybe I should ask Captain Kirk or William Shatner or maybe Mr.Spock what you're talking about? WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Guest Peeves Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 What is that supposed to mean? What does a Shakespeare quote from Romeo and Juliet have to do with Canadian politics? You know who was good at acting in Stradford?William Shatner! A ...Rose ...By ...Any ...Other ...Name ...Mr.Spock! Maybe I should ask Captain Kirk or William Shatner or maybe Mr.Spock what you're talking about? WWWTT Capsule comment. Politics be it Federal, Provincial, or regional smells pretty much the same. BTW , great Kirk impression. Spock would simply emote, "Computer, compute to the last digit the value of pi" - "Pi" or pie , to the last slice or digit, in my instance would refer of course to the never ending sequence of government largesse they 'give' us then raise taxes or borrow for our progeny to inherit and then tell us how you should thank them and vote for them. Quote
WWWTT Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 Capsule comment. Politics be it Federal, Provincial, or regional smells pretty much the same. BTW , great Kirk impression. Spock would simply emote, "Computer, compute to the last digit the value of pi" - "Pi" or pie , to the last slice or digit, in my instance would refer of course to the never ending sequence of government largesse they 'give' us then raise taxes or borrow for our progeny to inherit and then tell us how you should thank them and vote for them. I don't get it?Mr Spock only asked the computer to calculate pie to the last digit to occupy a hostile being invading the Enterprises computer.And what would that have to do with Canadian politics?Or maybe I should say that I don't believe that the government has become that redundant. Oh and by the way Pi has bein calculated to over one trillion digits! WWWTT Quote Maple Leaf Web is now worth $720.00! Down over $1,500 in less than one year! Total fail of the moderation on this site! That reminds me, never ask Greg to be a business partner! NEVER!
Guest Peeves Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 I don't get it?Mr Spock only asked the computer to calculate pie to the last digit to occupy a hostile being invading the Enterprises computer.And what would that have to do with Canadian politics?Or maybe I should say that I don't believe that the government has become that redundant. Oh and by the way Pi has bein calculated to over one trillion digits! WWWTT I knew that. I can't count on to the number (billions)of Ontario' deficit in a lifetime. And any hope of our current government dealing with it is pi in the sky. Quote
kendersonic Posted February 13, 2012 Report Posted February 13, 2012 Wide open immigration is the best way forward, IMO. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted February 14, 2012 Report Posted February 14, 2012 Wide open immigration is the best way forward, IMO. Canada's immigration is as high as any in the world,but, accepting immigrants that are a negative cost to our country doesn't make sense. There must be a positive for allowing aliens into our (welfare net), country. Quote
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