Topaz Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 It seems the Tories have harsher sentences for pot growers than pedophiles and Canadians are reacting. Right now its in the senate and Nicholson has some explaining to do. Probably the two will have the same amount of time and so we'll have more more in jail relating to any drug charges. I guess none of the Tories MP smoke pot. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/harsher-sentences-pot-growers-pedophiles-caught-pms-eye-181309506.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Ashley Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) It seems the Tories have harsher sentences for pot growers than pedophiles and Canadians are reacting. Right now its in the senate and Nicholson has some explaining to do. Probably the two will have the same amount of time and so we'll have more more in jail relating to any drug charges. I guess none of the Tories MP smoke pot. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/harsher-sentences-pot-growers-pedophiles-caught-pms-eye-181309506.html Well obviously they want the Liberals in longer than their own. Peds should be moved to adults only ghulags for life, and pot growers should work for the govt, in a federally regulated, constrained drug trade, that removes drugs from access to minors, and removes drug abuse by putting caps, and using safer use means like ingestion and vapourizers.. in non public spaces. Note, peds should be put in with other rapists. on the graduated system, but it would be better to confine them to a wide northern geographic area, (but they could still travel outside Canada, if another country let them in), but no northern area with an actual population, unless that area accepted readmission of someone convicted of being a ped. The time for crime system is just REALLY stupid. You need a real system like exile and death, and work camps and graduated 3 strikes 1, 5 10, life year terms to deal with this stuff. With starting points based on severity. eg. for serious crimes 5 for dangerous offenders 10 as a starting point, and for repeat dangerous offenders life. give everyone sentenced the option of death but not with a rope, with a more effective system, of course you need to change some laws. but the only way we are going to get rid of crime is by streamlining crime to real criminals, not the economically disadvantaged, or the mentally neglected. They need to wake the hell up and realize that time for crime hasn't worked in the last 200 years it ain't going to start now. It is situational and developmental, putting a criminal in with criminals, only creates criminal culture. Edited February 6, 2012 by William Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Well obviously they want the Liberals in longer than their own. Peds should be moved to adults only ghulags for life, and pot growers should work for the govt, in a federally regulated, constrained drug trade, that removes drugs from access to minors, and removes drug abuse by putting caps, and using safer use means like ingestion and vapourizers.. in non public spaces. Note, peds should be put in with other rapists. on the graduated system, but it would be better to confine them to a wide northern geographic area, (but they could still travel outside Canada, if another country let them in), but no northern area with an actual population, unless that area accepted readmission of someone convicted of being a ped. The time for crime system is just REALLY stupid. You need a real system like exile and death, and work camps and graduated 3 strikes 1, 5 10, life year terms to deal with this stuff. With starting points based on severity. eg. for serious crimes 5 for dangerous offenders 10 as a starting point, and for repeat dangerous offenders life. give everyone sentenced the option of death but not with a rope, with a more effective system, of course you need to change some laws. but the only way we are going to get rid of crime is by streamlining crime to real criminals, not the economically disadvantaged, or the mentally neglected. They need to wake the hell up and realize that time for crime hasn't worked in the last 200 years it ain't going to start now. It is situational and developmental, putting a criminal in with criminals, only creates criminal culture. Phewww! that got me really excited. Can I quote you? Please write to the government...you know those that don't dare charge a certain segment of our society that break the laws with impunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 It seems the Tories have harsher sentences for pot growers than pedophiles and Canadians are reacting. Right now its in the senate and Nicholson has some explaining to do. Probably the two will have the same amount of time and so we'll have more more in jail relating to any drug charges. I guess none of the Tories MP smoke pot. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/harsher-sentences-pot-growers-pedophiles-caught-pms-eye-181309506.html I see no sense in our pot laws or sentences. Not that I think growing pot should be allowed, but if legally produced as is alcohol, then controlled & taxed we could make money rather than pissin it away pretending the laws are making any difference. Shit, they can't stop native selling illegal tobacco, how are they going to stop pot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Not that I think growing pot should be allowed... Aren't you supposed to be some kind of libertarian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron Young Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 How else are they going to fill the new jails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Federal Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said Wednesday the federal price tag on the Truth in Sentencing Act will be $2 billion over five years. However, the provinces might end up paying even more. That's because most offenders are convicted of sentences of two years less a day, which puts them into a provincial jail cell. What's to stop provinces from sentencing offenders to the full two years? It seems to me anyone who would complain is probably soft on crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm only guessing, but I'm thinking that a lot of guilty plees are a result of a plea bargain deal between the defense and the crown, resulting in custody in a provincial facility. It sounds like the provinces are getting the lousy end of the bargain. If the federal government is so hot to trot for getting tougher it should be the one that pays to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I believe that's what they are trying to do with their commitment to upgrade existing prison facilities and build new ones. I don't believe it. I don't think there's many people in general who worry about overcrowding, least of all the federal government. It'll take a catastrophic riot or fire in which there are hundreds of casualties before anything is done about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Prison expansion is one of the main elements of the "tough on crime" bill making it's way through parliament right now. Must be all those unreported crimes committed by unreported criminals. Can we build unreported prisons too? Maybe we could use unreported dollars to pay for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Are we really going to revisit this??? You dont think they are linked? Upgrades, repairs on existing prisons is one thing. Building new, in this economy when we need every dollar, is dumb unless some repairs are beyond prudent. Besides, w crime dropping , why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Okay, you win...crime rates are dropping in this country. Of course it's a little hard to figure out why Canada's prisons are overcrowded and getting more so every year, if that's the case. I mean, there should be less people in prison not more, right? Especially when judges these days are so fond of handing out double or sometimes triple credit for time served in remand, and parole is something that is given, not earned. Hmmm, something's not adding up here. Never is one simple reason why. This is deeper than bon mots back and forth (which I can be guilty about) We are ramping up sentences for 6 pot plants, we have tons of minor possession criminals in jail , so why dont we look at the whole shebang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahbody Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Upgrades, repairs on existing prisons is one thing. Building new, in this economy when we need every dollar, is dumb unless some repairs are beyond prudent. Building prisons puts people to work. Along with construction, it creates many long-term jobs within the prison. So it's actually good for the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Building prisons puts people to work. Along with construction, it creates many long-term jobs within the prison. Many long term jobs? The new prison will be staffed by the employees of the old prison. No real spike there. Your family is treading water, daddy's wages have been scaled back and the family has coming expenditures for which the family isnt sure where the money is going to come from. Dad went out and bought a new van....because...its good for the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Prison expansion is one of the main elements of the "tough on crime" bill making it's way through parliament right now. The expansion isn't to address overcrowding it's to accommodate greater numbers of new prisoners. (from your cite)“If they’re already experiencing overcrowding, if they’re already rushing to build and expand new units, then I don’t think they’re in a good position to cope with the influx that will be caused by the new act,” he said. Overcrowding is a good reason for building new prisons. The reasons for all the new prisoners are not. (again from your cite)The Safe Streets & Communities Act and the details of the federal government’s procurement spree come at a time when the national crime rate is at its lowest since 1973. The Conservatives are plain bone-head stupid on crime and mean and vindictive on justice. If anything we're only going to see meaner criminals and probably more of them as a result. Something I actually suspect the more Machiavellian elements Conservative Party is hoping for. The CPC knows how to profit from the fear and loathing of crime like no other political party since the CCP. Edited February 10, 2012 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) This is your partisan subjective opinion. I disagree. A subjective opinion based on the objective fact that crime really is going down and not up. The reasons cited for new prisoners such as victims rights or that the crime rate isn't going down fast enough are what subjective partisan opinions really look like. The imaginary wave of unreported crime is just that, imaginary. It is also patently clear there is an electoral aspect to the issue the Conservatives have whipped up and sadly it has served them well at election time. The strategy of creating a fear and loathing for something in a society, usually crime, and then positioning yourself as the only thing that can do anything about it probably goes back to the days when people first climbed down from the trees. Edited February 10, 2012 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilter Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Never is one simple reason why. This is deeper than bon mots back and forth (which I can be guilty about) We are ramping up sentences for 6 pot plants, we have tons of minor possession criminals in jail , so why dont we look at the whole shebang? Spiderfish, on 10 February 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:Okay, you win...crime rates are dropping in this country. Of course it's a little hard to figure out why Canada's prisons are overcrowded and getting more so every year, if that's the case. I mean, there should be less people in prison not more, right? Especially when judges these days are so fond of handing out double or sometimes triple credit for time served in remand, and parole is something that is given, not earned. Hmmm, something's not adding up here. Maybe instead of less criminals committing more crimes we have more criminals getting caught before they can commit more crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Maybe instead of less criminals committing more crimes we have more criminals getting caught before they can commit more crimes. We have a population that's growing. This underscores how effective our criminal justice system really is given the rate of crime has not kept pace with the growth in population. Aside from prison overcrowding and our piss poor approach and attitudes towards mental illness, our criminal justice system no more broken than our government pension plan. It's the CPC that's f*^cked up is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Maybe instead of less criminals committing more crimes we have more criminals getting caught before they can commit more crimes. Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 It is also patently clear there is an electoral aspect to the issue the Conservatives have whipped up and sadly it has served them well at election time. The strategy of creating a fear and loathing for something in a society, usually crime, and then positioning yourself as the only thing that can do anything about it probably goes back to the days when people first climbed down from the trees. Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Okay, you win...crime rates are dropping in this country. Of course it's a little hard to figure out why Canada's prisons are overcrowded and getting more so every year, if that's the case. I mean, there should be less people in prison not more, right? Especially when judges these days are so fond of handing out double or sometimes triple credit for time served in remand, and parole is something that is given, not earned. Hmmm, something's not adding up here. Of course it adds up but I suspect you're still not going to like the answer. Canada's prisons becoming warehouses for the mentally ill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 We are ramping up sentences for 6 pot plants, we have tons of minor possession criminals in jail , so why dont we look at the whole shebang? How many are in a 'ton'? Maybe you provide us with some numbers about all these minor possession people and we'll have a basis to discuss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 A subjective opinion based on the objective fact that crime really is going down and not up. Why don't you get back to us when all these new prisons are empty because of the low crime rate. I don't think that's going to be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) No one in this country gets thrown in jail for minor possession, that's an exaggeration. Judges are reluctant to hand out prison sentences for felony charges these days, minor possession charges don't even warrant a raised eyebrow. It is a bit but..... Five pot plants, no matter the size, mandatory jail time coming. 2010, 75,000 arrestes for pot . 57,000 were for simple possession. Thats up 14 per cent . Very few get any serious time,but 75,000 have an arrest record which is far more harm than the pot ever will be. http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/too-many-cops/ Edited February 10, 2012 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 How many are in a 'ton'? 2,000 According to Canadian Centre for Substance Abuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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