jbg Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) It seems that all the money in the world, unless earned, exacerbates rather than eases social problems. Below are the excerpts of an article (link, excerpts below) about a FN Reserve of the Samson Cree. Oil flowed freely during the 1980's and early part of the 1990's, along with royalty checks. Was a civil society built where the children were educated and able to function in the world? Take a wild guess. Oil brought money to Hobbema, Alta. reserve, along with alcohol, drugs, and murder By Elise Stolte, Postmedia News HOBBEMA, Alta. — Vern Saddleback recently met a 10-year-old who has never been to school a day in his life. On Samson Cree First Nation, there are hundreds of children who stay home, wander about town or play video games without a teacher even noting their absence. There are 2,760 children aged five to 18 on the membership books of the reserve, said Saddleback, but only 1,579 students, or 57 per cent, are on the list that school administrators give to Indian Affairs to cover education costs. “At first I couldn’t believe it, until you meet children who are not in school,” said Saddleback, a band councillor who’s leading a new effort to understand the challenges of the four communities that make up Hobbema. “This can’t be swept under the rug. We’ve got to get these kids in school.” Saddleback, 47, is a father, a college-level computer instructor and a band councillor on the finance committee. He started researching gangs while earning a master’s in education at the University of Saskatchewan and continued after being elected in February. Most community members have never seen the numbers he’s now made public. ********************* When the money flowed, alcohol and cocaine use increased and the car industry in Wetaskiwin, 17 kilometres north of Hobbema, took off, Saddleback said. The suicide rate spiked to an average of 18 deaths a year — one of the highest rates in North America from 1980 to 1987. ********************* Monthly royalty cheques stopped in 1997 when the band could no longer afford it. The last oil well closed in 2000 and the last gas well was capped in 2007. Why is this happening? Why? I thought the problem was not enough money. Oh well. Edited January 28, 2012 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Why is this happening? Why? I thought the problem was not enough money. Oh well. Money isn't the cure-all. There is no cure-all. Maybe many of the problems have to do with the fact that native culture and ways of life have been completely thrashed upon since colonial days? Maybe that the aboriginal communal way of life is not compatible with the rest of Canadian capitalist society? Money can't fix a person's identity or culture. Maybe the natives have been pretty much doomed to be f'ed since the day whitey moved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 It seems that all the money in the world, unless earned, exacerbates rather than eases social problems. Below are the excerpts of an article (link, excerpts below) about a FN Reserve of the Samson Cree. Oil flowed freely during the 1980's and early part of the 1990's, along with royalty checks. Was a civil society built where the children were educated and able to function in the world? Take a wild guess. Oil brought money to Hobbema, Alta. reserve, along with alcohol, drugs, and murder By Elise Stolte, Postmedia News HOBBEMA, Alta. — Vern Saddleback recently met a 10-year-old who has never been to school a day in his life. On Samson Cree First Nation, there are hundreds of children who stay home, wander about town or play video games without a teacher even noting their absence. There are 2,760 children aged five to 18 on the membership books of the reserve, said Saddleback, but only 1,579 students, or 57 per cent, are on the list that school administrators give to Indian Affairs to cover education costs. “At first I couldn’t believe it, until you meet children who are not in school,” said Saddleback, a band councillor who’s leading a new effort to understand the challenges of the four communities that make up Hobbema. “This can’t be swept under the rug. We’ve got to get these kids in school.” Saddleback, 47, is a father, a college-level computer instructor and a band councillor on the finance committee. He started researching gangs while earning a master’s in education at the University of Saskatchewan and continued after being elected in February. Most community members have never seen the numbers he’s now made public. ********************* When the money flowed, alcohol and cocaine use increased and the car industry in Wetaskiwin, 17 kilometres north of Hobbema, took off, Saddleback said. The suicide rate spiked to an average of 18 deaths a year — one of the highest rates in North America from 1980 to 1987. ********************* Monthly royalty cheques stopped in 1997 when the band could no longer afford it. The last oil well closed in 2000 and the last gas well was capped in 2007. Why is this happening? Why? I thought the problem was not enough money. Oh well. Rapid social changes, whether they for the better or worse, have the same effect on aggregate suicide rates. Meanwhile, you want to characterize individual natives with your aggregate data, as though that's a logically sound argument. Suicide rates in Quebec skyrocketed after the Quiet Revolution as well. How many celebrities and musicians have died in their 20s? It arises from a social condition called anomie that was written about at the end of the 19th century by Emile Durkheim. When he was writing about it, however, he was trying to figure out why Protestants were offing themselves at a higher rate than Roman Catholics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Rapid social changes, whether they for the better or worse, have the same effect on aggregate suicide rates. Meanwhile, you want to characterize individual natives with your aggregate data, as though that's a logically sound argument. Suicide rates in Quebec skyrocketed after the Quiet Revolution as well. How many celebrities and musicians have died in their 20s? It arises from a social condition called anomie that was written about at the end of the 19th century by Emile Durkheim. When he was writing about it, however, he was trying to figure out why Protestants were offing themselves at a higher rate than Roman Catholics. Well there you have it folks. It arises from anomie. Why? Because Emile Durkheim said so. Shut this thread down mods, Cyber's solved another mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Well there you have it folks. It arises from anomie. Why? Because Emile Durkheim said so. Shut this thread down mods, Cyber's solved another mystery. rather than continuing to play the fool, do you actually have thoughts/considerations as to the anomalies spoken of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Delete duplicate. Edited January 28, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 rather than continuing to play the fool, do you actually have thoughts/considerations as to the anomalies spoken of? Sure. Welfare bad. Jobs good. Work keeps people busy and integrates them with society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Monthly royalty cheques stopped in 1997 when the band could no longer afford it. The last oil well closed in 2000 and the last gas well was capped in 2007. Why is this happening? Why? I thought the problem was not enough money. Oh well. subsequent generational impact, yes? As your own excerpt states... oil/gas wells are closed/capped; for oil, more than a decade ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) subsequent generational impact, yes? As your own excerpt states... oil/gas wells are closed/capped; for oil, more than a decade ago. From his own excerpt, the suicide rate spiked in the 80s. I thought we were talking about that, not the kids skipping school to play video games. Did durkheim make up a word for kids playing too many video games? Edited January 28, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Sure. Welfare bad. Jobs good. Work keeps people busy and integrates them with society. Hilarious. You slag on me offering Durkheimian theory as an explanation then you unwittingly base your own opinions on it. Good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) subsequent generational impact, yes? As your own excerpt states... oil/gas wells are closed/capped; for oil, more than a decade ago.From his own excerpt, the suicide rate spiked in the 80s. I thought we were talking about that, not the kids skipping school to play video games. Did durkheim make up a word for kids playing too many video games? you should have read the article... something about today's gang influences, school avoidance, collapse of parenting... Edited January 28, 2012 by waldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) I didn't even read the article until just now, but even it mentions what I was saying: Today, he’s found an explanation in sociology. Emile Durkheim studied high suicide rates during the French Industrial Revolution and argued that “when there is extreme amounts of wealth introduced to a closed system, men are more inclined to kill themselves. They can’t handle it,” said Saddleback. He includes the quote in presentations he’s given to the community. Edited January 28, 2012 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I didn't even read the article until just now, but even it mentions what I was saying: Yes journalists tend to come from Arts backgrounds. Tell us something we don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hilarious. You slag on me offering Durkheimian theory as an explanation then you unwittingly base your own opinions on it. Good job. Really? I called it jobamie. I'm hoping hippies would constantly quote me in a couple hundred years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 you should have read the article... something about today's gang influences, school avoidance, collapse of parenting... Forgive me. I thought it was about the alcohol, drugs, and murder mentioned in the thread title. Mod can we get an edit to the title? Perhaps "...along with video games, negligent parenting, and kids wearing their hats backwards." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 This seems like a pretty clear cut case of dysfunction and arrested development caused by colonialism, cultural diddling and official interference. I suppose it goes without saying that a bunch of priests along with Indian Affairs used the previous generations of Samson Cree to maintain the pedophile rings that were so common back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yes journalists tend to come from Arts backgrounds. Tell us something we don't know. relevance? Are you suggesting anytime you offer a "journalist reference" we should discount it... is that what you're saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Really? I called it jobamie. I'm hoping hippies would constantly quote me in a couple hundred years. more hippie talk, hey? Your own generational influence seems to be front & center, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 From his own excerpt, the suicide rate spiked in the 80s. I thought we were talking about thatyou should have read the article... something about today's gang influences, school avoidance, collapse of parenting...Forgive me. I thought it was about the alcohol, drugs, and murder mentioned in the thread title. Mod can we get an edit to the title? Perhaps "...along with video games, negligent parenting, and kids wearing their hats backwards." make up your mind... 80s or today. Pick one. And try to read the linked article, hey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 relevance? Are you suggesting anytime you offer a "journalist reference" we should discount it... is that what you're saying? Nope. Read our exchange again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 make up your mind... 80s or today. Pick one. And try to read the linked article, hey? hey? I did hey? I picked the 80s as per the OP hey? Then you hey, decided hey, that it was about video hey games, hey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Nope. Read our exchange again. nothing to do with, as you say, "our exchange"... out of the blue you dropped this gem in your exchange with MLW member cybercoma: Yes journalists tend to come from Arts backgrounds. Tell us something we don't know. of course, it's simply a continuance of your recent slagging of, at any opportunity, Humanities based education. But again, since it's your comment: relevance? Are you suggesting anytime you offer a "journalist reference" we should discount it... is that what you're saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) nothing to do with, as you say, "our exchange"... out of the blue you dropped this gem in your exchange with MLW member cybercoma: of course, it's simply a continuance of your recent slagging of, at any opportunity, Humanities based education. But again, since it's your comment: Try my exchange with Cybercoma which you butted into. Cyber: posts article, blames anomie. Me: lol it's all anomie's fault. Cyber: journalist also mentions anomie. Me: yes, not surprising as journalists tend to come from arts backgrounds. Can you keep up yet? Edited January 28, 2012 by CPCFTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yes journalists tend to come from Arts backgrounds. Tell us something we don't know. relevance? Are you suggesting anytime you offer a "journalist reference" we should discount it... is that what you're saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPCFTW Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 relevance? Are you suggesting anytime you offer a "journalist reference" we should discount it... is that what you're saying? Oh you! You're so clever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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