Old age security reform

guyser · January 27, 2012

Really what we should be doing is reviewing the languge issue multiculturism and immigration and that alone would be enough to fix most of the countries problems.

Not even close.

You voted for the wrong party then, since Conservatives increased the number of immigrants.

Shady · January 27, 2012

Set an example and do it to the politicians first.

Fine with me.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

It does matter what the people think, it always matters what the people think. Is this what conservatives believe?

Sometimes, people think the wrong thing. The reality is, we have a federal government that only spends $80B on programs. We can't afford pension transfers that cost more than that. We need to reign in spending and lower taxes at the federal level so that the provinces have room to raise taxes and carry out their obligations.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

Fine with me.

I think it's fine with many politicians too, especially the fiscally conservative ones (mostly Conservatives and some Liberals).

punked · January 27, 2012

Sometimes, people think the wrong thing. The reality is, we have a federal government that only spends $80B on programs. We can't afford pension transfers that cost more than that. We need to reign in spending and lower taxes at the federal level so that the provinces have room to raise taxes and carry out their obligations.

Smallc we can do anything our country decides the question is are willing to pay the cost?

Smallc · January 27, 2012

Smallc we can do anything our country decides the question is are willing to pay the cost?

We really can't do anything we decide to. We can only raise taxes so much, and there are only so many places we can cut. No matter how much we spend on it, we need a DND and some kind of security establishment, and even though spending growth is slowing, healthcare spending is still increasing faster than economic growth and will for at least the next 10 - 15 years. Infrastructure costs are also a big issue, and the money spent on them desperately needs to be increased in some places, both to replace aging facilities, and to make new facilities to increase competitiveness.

Pensions are only one thing we have to contend with, but they are one of the biggest pieces and we must deal with them now.

punked · January 27, 2012

We really can't do anything we decide to. We can only raise taxes so much, and there are only so many places we can cut. No matter how much we spend on it, we need a DND and some kind of security establishment, and even though spending growth is slowing, healthcare spending is still increasing faster than economic growth and will for at least the next 10 - 15 years. Infrastructure costs are also a big issue, and the money spent on them desperately needs to be increased in some places, both to replace aging facilities, and to make new facilities to increase competitiveness.

Pensions are only one thing we have to contend with, but they are one of the biggest pieces and we must deal with them now.

OAS is in great shape right now. You are talking as if it is eating up our whole capacity to tax. It isn't even close. As a society we really can do anything we want. Telling me we are broke when we aren't isn't the way to win that argument.

scribblet · January 27, 2012

Sometimes, people think the wrong thing. The reality is, we have a federal government that only spends $80B on programs. We can't afford pension transfers that cost more than that. We need to reign in spending and lower taxes at the federal level so that the provinces have room to raise taxes and carry out their obligations.

I agree, often people read their favourite anti Harper blogs etc. without fact checking or reading other opinions. They buy into every negative issue they are fed without ever knowing the real issue, or the other side.

fellowtraveller · January 27, 2012

The number of Canadians over the age of 65 will increase from 4.7 million to 9.3 million over the next 20 years.
- The OAS program was built when Canadians were not living the longer, healthier lives they are today.

- Consequently, the cost of the OAS program will increase from $36B per year in 2010 to $108B per year in 2030.

- Meanwhile, by 2030, the number of taxpayers for every senior will be 2 - down from 4 in 2010.

Those are some very sobering numbers. The current entitlements are unsustainable.

Hats off to previous govts who took measures to make CPP the sustainable model that it is now. Canada is in an enviable position compared to Harpers audience in Europe. Most developed countries face the same issues of a rapidly aging population, but most countries also have the serious handicap of funding pensions entirely from revenues, whereas a good chunk of CPP will come from investment.

Harper also used this forum for some marketing for the cream of Europes workforce, which would seriously piss off some of the audience. His suggestion that Canadas doors are open to skilled workers means that some of those skilled workers will be emigrating here. They are perfect: skilled, expereinced, younger, healthy and all their education paid for by somebody else. It is exactly what is needed for our future, those folks can help pay for the tidal wave of old geezers that is surely coming. Contrast that with the likes of Japan, which has really resisted immigration for a long time.... they have the worst problem with a rapidly aging population and few options.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

OAS is in great shape right now.

Maybe so, but the price of it is set to double and even triple.

You are talking as if it is eating up our whole capacity to tax.

In 20 years, it will eat up a larger portion of it.

It isn't even close. As a society we really can do anything we want. Telling me we are broke when we aren't isn't the way to win that argument.

We aren't broke, but we have to make sure we don't become broke. We have to make sure that paying out pensions doesn't get in the way of either the federal or provincial governments providing core services such as healthcare, security, and defence. If the employment situation ever stabilized, the EI board that people are up in arms about right now will also go a long way towards what I'm talking about.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

Hats off to previous govts who took measures to make CPP the sustainable model that it is now.

For sure. If we can eventually do the same thing to EI, and modify the system for OAS/GIS, we'll go a long way towards solving our future problems.

punked · January 27, 2012

I agree, often people read their favourite anti Harper blogs etc. without fact checking or reading other opinions. They buy into every negative issue they are fed without ever knowing the real issue, or the other side.

I get it people disagree with you so they must be wrong. Like I said the peoples opinions and thoughts matter so you don't get to do something super unpopular with out explaining it first. I have never heard Harper talk about OAS being unsustainable not in an election, not a thorn speech, heck not in the house of commons. Only at a summit in another country in front of a bunch of millionaires. Sorry that just isn't the way something should be done.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

I really don't understand the hang up about the venue. Who cares? We all got the message, and in the upcoming budget, we should get some of the details.

punked · January 27, 2012

Maybe so, but the price of it is set to double and even triple.

In 20 years, it will eat up a larger portion of it.

We aren't broke, but we have to make sure we don't become broke. We have to make sure that paying out pensions doesn't get in the way of either the federal or provincial governments providing core services such as healthcare, security, and defence. If the employment situation ever stabilized, the EI board that people are up in arms about right now will also go a long way towards what I'm talking about.

If we make it through 20 years we are on our down the population hill and it is easy sailing.

fellowtraveller · January 27, 2012

Pensions are only one thing we have to contend with, but they are one of the biggest pieces and we must deal with them now

The biggest piece and biggest future problem of all is health care which utterly dwarfs pensions in size, and that discussion has barely begun.

Telling me we are broke when we aren't isn't the way to win that argument.

Nobody has said we are broke, the PM is looking to the future and addressing a serious problem that we cannot pretend won't occur. Or do you think that planning for our future is irresponsible?

The Liberals were responsible for changes to CPP that have helped make it sustainable for a couple of generations, did you want to dump on them too?

punked · January 27, 2012

I really don't understand the hang up about the venue. Who cares? We all got the message, and in the upcoming budget, we should get some of the details.

Changing a fundamental program like OAS is an election issue. I am sorry it would be one thing if I ever heard Harper talking about it, but he hasn't and the people have not voted on it.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

The biggest piece and biggest future problem of all is health care which utterly dwarfs pensions in size, and that discussion has barely begun.

Yes and no. At the federal level, even the PBO now says that the government is on sustainable footing. I think that's the plan. Get the federal house very much in order, and transfer tax points to the provinces. Allow them to raise the revenue necessary for them to carry out their obligations, the primary ones being the healthcare, infrastructure, education, and the implementation of justice.

Also, healthcare increases are beginning to slow, and if that continues, there won't be as much of a problem.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Smallc

punked · January 27, 2012

The biggest piece and biggest future problem of all is health care which utterly dwarfs pensions in size, and that discussion has barely begun.

Nobody has said we are broke, the PM is looking to the future and addressing a serious problem that we cannot pretend won't occur. Or do you think that planning for our future is irresponsible?

The Liberals were responsible for changes to CPP that have helped make it sustainable for a couple of generations, did you want to dump on them too?

I think planning for our future is great. Which is why I always thought it irresponsible to blow a budget surplus because we are "over taxed" before a recession and spent the cushion even before we need it. Planning for our future hasn't always been a strong suit.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

Changing a fundamental program like OAS is an election issue. I am sorry it would be one thing if I ever heard Harper talking about it, but he hasn't and the people have not voted on it.

People are stupid and selfish on issues like this. Giving them a chance to vote on it will probably take us down the road to financial ruin.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

I think planning for our future is great. Which is why I always thought it irresponsible to blow a budget surplus because we are "over taxed" before a recession and spent the cushion even before we need it. Planning for our future hasn't always been a strong suit.

The lower taxes that this country has come to have probably contributed to our good fortune during the recession. You look at cities like Toronto, Calgary, and even Winnipeg. The investment never stopped.

punked · January 27, 2012

The lower taxes that this country has come to have probably contributed to our good fortune during the recession. You look at cities like Toronto, Calgary, and even Winnipeg. The investment never stopped.

Give me a break. There are plenty of cities like that, it does not mean that has to do with low taxes and we both know that.

punked · January 27, 2012

People are stupid and selfish on issues like this. Giving them a chance to vote on it will probably take us down the road to financial ruin.

That is the peoples of this countries choice. Seriously issues as big as this one deserve to be put in a platform and voted on.

Smallc · January 27, 2012

Give me a break. There are plenty of cities like that, it does not mean that has to do with low taxes and we both know that.

There are plenty of cities like that in jurisdictions that are very open in terms of making it easy to invest. Low tax cities are doing well in comparison to others.