What will come first, penalties or the sikorsky cyclone?

[Topaz]

Canada is still waiting on the the repalcements for the Sea Kings and deliver date and dead line are far behind. The Company had been charged from 38-89 MIl for not reaching the dead line but Mckay re did the deal and still no replacements and the penalities are now only 8 mil and still no money or copters. Of course, the Tories blame the Liberals for their problems, but this McKay's problem. MacKay, if you had gotten the big bucks, it would have been less money to take from the DND in the cuts the PMO wants. http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Replacements+aging+Kings+years+behind+schedule/5941484/story.html

[Wild Bill]

Topaz, you continue to amaze me with how you can stretch something to put blame on the Tories.

Your own article tells us that it was the Liberals who first signed the deal. We HAD a good deal! We had a deal for the EH-101! That was back in Mulroney's day, for Pete's sake!

The Liberals canceled that deal! They made us pay $500 MILLION to do it! Then they went looking for their own helicopter, claiming they would find a better one!

Guess what? There wasn't a better one! So they dumbed down the requirements and went with a crappier helicopter.

Then the Tories take over. They don't want to REPEAT the Liberal's mistake of paying more cancellation charges! So they try to work with the new company.

Topaz, the Tories aren't building these helicopters themselves! The company chosen by the Liberals was obviously a bad choice. They appear to have grievous internal problems and can't deliver on their commitments.

What do you think the Tories should have done? What CAN they do? Should Peter McKay fly down their and BEAT the company president with a STICK?

The $8 million dollar penalty charge is the ONLY legal stick the Liberals gave us! And if the company can't deliver it is probably got such problems it is going to go bankrupt, in which case we can whistle for any penalty charges!

Now you want to blame the Tories! This time, for illogic you have outdone yourself! You would blame the Tories for bad weather, I swear!

Edited January 5, 2012 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[Cameron]

You would blame the Tories for bad weather, I swear!

So very true!

Listen Topaz. We are in the thick of it now. These things are coming and if we cancel now we'd be years behind. There is not much the government can do now except make a note not to purchase from Sikorsky in the future.

Even the 101 has(d) problems with it's components. Alos, this is a variant of the Cougar helicopter that crashed because of gearbox problems. Nothing is perfect.

The Liberals signed the deal for this helicopter, which I will point out was a paper helicopter at the time, so we have to suck it up.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Cameron

[Jerry J. Fortin]

So very true!

Listen Topaz. We are in the thick of it now. These things are coming and if we cancel now we'd be years behind. There is not much the government can do now except make a note not to purchase from Sikorsky in the future.

Even the 101 has(d) problems with it's components. Alos, this is a variant of the Cougar helicopter that crashed because of gearbox problems. Nothing is perfect.

The Liberals signed the deal for this helicopter, which I will point out was a paper helicopter at the time, so we have to suck it up.

The truth is that we need new birds, period. I don't care which partisan decision is which, just give our guys the tools they need to do the job we tell them to do with a minimum risk of life and limb. Look folks when it comes to the military, we simple cannot afford to risk what precious little we have just to save a buck.

[Wilber]

This whole process has been a monumental screw up from day one. Anyone but a bloody politician would be publicly hanging their head in embarrassment.

[sharkman]

So after reading the article Topaz linked, it seems that the Liberals picked this company as an alternative to the Tory choice of the day. And that pick was really bad. I appreciate Mckay's attempt to limit waste to the taxpayer by dumping yet another chopper contract, but man, this is getting ridiculous! If only Chretien hadn't nixed the original contract and then sat on the issue for a decade. But now there are few options left but to bite the bullet.

[Tilter]

So after reading the article Topaz linked, it seems that the Liberals picked this company as an alternative to the Tory choice of the day. And that pick was really bad. I appreciate Mckay's attempt to limit waste to the taxpayer by dumping yet another chopper contract, but man, this is getting ridiculous! If only Chretien hadn't nixed the original contract and then sat on the issue for a decade. But now there are few options left but to bite the bullet.

By the way---- with all the problems there are with the Sea King it's a wonder that the Ami-prex's primary chopper is one.

Maybe the Chopper ain't all as bad as you think.

[Wild Bill]

By the way---- with all the problems there are with the Sea King it's a wonder that the Ami-prex's primary chopper is one.

Maybe the Chopper ain't all as bad as you think.

Perhaps, but it's a safe bet that the SeaKIng that carries the American President is nowhere near the 40-50 year old age of our airframes!

And yes, I know that our airframes are inspected and some airframes have been patched. So has my neighbour's prize 1957 Chevy.

[sharkman]

By the way---- with all the problems there are with the Sea King it's a wonder that the Ami-prex's primary chopper is one.

Maybe the Chopper ain't all as bad as you think.

I don't think it's bad so much as worn out. A military application would be much harder on a chopper than carting a president around I think. Plus, the military budget to maintain each 'King is certainly not the kind of money that the presidential budget would be. They've probably replaced every single part three times by now.

The fact that our Sea Kings have had many issues/hard landings is an indicator as well.

[segnosaur]

By the way---- with all the problems there are with the Sea King it's a wonder that the Ami-prex's primary chopper is one.

Maybe the Chopper ain't all as bad as you think.

First of all, I believe that the Sea King used by the president was manufactured years after the ones used by the Canadian forces. (I think the version the U.S. uses is from the mid-70s, whereas the one Canada uses were made in the 60s.)

Secondly, Canada has been using our Sea Kings under fairly extreme conditions (landing on the deck of a ship over salt water, etc.) The U.S. helicopters used to move the president around were not subject to the same conditions.

Thirdly, the Sea King is not the only helicopter used by the president. He also uses the VH60 "White Hawk" (a variation of the Black Hawk) that was made in the 80s.

Lastly, they are actually planning on replacing the Sea Kings. They had actually decided on buying the EH101 (or the VH71 as it was known there) but because of the economy they've decided to re-do the bidding process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_One

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VXX

[Wilber]

So after reading the article Topaz linked, it seems that the Liberals picked this company as an alternative to the Tory choice of the day. And that pick was really bad. I appreciate Mckay's attempt to limit waste to the taxpayer by dumping yet another chopper contract, but man, this is getting ridiculous! If only Chretien hadn't nixed the original contract and then sat on the issue for a decade. But now there are few options left but to bite the bullet.

Unfortunately. Let's just keep our fingers crossed that if and when it does finally come, our people will be getting a decent machine.

[Wilber]

By the way---- with all the problems there are with the Sea King it's a wonder that the Ami-prex's primary chopper is one.

Maybe the Chopper ain't all as bad as you think.

The Sea King was a great machine used by many navies around the world but everything wears out or becomes obsolete eventually. You can keep an aircraft flying forever but there comes a point where it is not cost effective to do so any longer. Parts become harder to get or have been overhauled so many times that you don't get the same life out of them between overhauls. Lots of reasons. Too bad the same bunch smart enough to order the Sea King originally weren't around to prevent the horror show surrounding its replacement. Man, this donkey show may not be illegal but it sure has been criminal.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The Sea King was a great machine used by many navies around the world but everything wears out or becomes obsolete eventually. You can keep an aircraft flying forever but there comes a point where it is not cost effective to do so any longer. Parts become harder to get or have been overhauled so many times that you don't get the same life out of them between overhauls. Lots of reasons. Too bad the same bunch smart enough to order the Sea King originally weren't around to prevent the horror show surrounding its replacement. Man, this donkey show may not be illegal but it sure has been criminal.

Damned well said Wilbur !

[Tilter]

The Sea King was a great machine used by many navies around the world but everything wears out or becomes obsolete eventually. You can keep an aircraft flying forever but there comes a point where it is not cost effective to do so any longer. Parts become harder to get or have been overhauled so many times that you don't get the same life out of them between overhauls. Lots of reasons. Too bad the same bunch smart enough to order the Sea King originally weren't around to prevent the horror show surrounding its replacement. Man, this donkey show may not be illegal but it sure has been criminal.

Just think--- if the liarbrills hadn't chopped the procurement we WOULD have new choppers AND be 500 million richer. Sagacity wasn't listed among kreetin's job skills even if short sales contract writing was.

:lol: