Canada should have oil

[Crimson]

The bargaining chip that Canada needs for better relations with the U.S. administration, is oil. I'm an American, and I am disappointed with the direction that the American malaise is headed; downhill. I'm not Anti-American, but I think that the mode of thought for America is too directed by finances. In Afghanistan, after we deposed their regime, we put in Hamid Karzai, and immediately afterwards, installed a shiny new oil pipline. And I think, sadly, that the only way for the United States to take a foreign country seriously is to have some sort of long term interest in that nations resources. With the Middle East, it seems that the over-all reason for our presence and interaction is the strategic position of our armed forces. Once again, I'd like to reiterate that it's not Bush, or Clinton's former policies; as the hard-line Republicans allude to; but the over-all thought, which in turn affects the conception and execution of legislation, that leads to poor decision-making by the administration. But the fact that we've now, by chance alone (pun), armed forces in both Afghanistan and Iraq. But I only minutely worry about foreign opinions of the U.S.. What worries me is the overly-zealous "patriotic" American public. I fear that they have become gullible. I think that we should all be cautious of groupthinking situations, and realize that the government knows more than we know, and will mislead us in their best interests. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but have historical precedence to support my opinion. During the Cold War, NSC-68 stated that one of the objectives of the administration to help back the fight against Russia was to "mobilize the public". Basically, this meant to start a propaganda movement internally to make the Americans empathize for the Russian people, and disdain the government "oppressing" them. I just wish everyone would not jump whole-heartedly behind one man. He is man, he makes mistakes. Unfortunately, what we are seeing now is political games. In retrospect, I blame not the administration, but the public malaise leading to poor administrative execution.

In turn once more, if you've got oil, we *heart* your country.

[udawg]

Canada HAS oil. I believe the US is our largest market for it. Unfortunately, for several reasons, it is difficult for us to extricate ourselves from current agreements and deals. The use of oil as a bargaining chip with the US is potentially beneficial, but for the moment, unattainably so.

[idealisttotheend]

Some argue that the only reason the US signed the free trade agreement with us was to guarentee their access to our oil. Makes perfect sense to me.

[caesar]

No doubt. The bully or ignore other trade issues.

We should opt out of free trade and turn off the oil.

I will start building my bomb shelter.

[Guest eureka]

Including the tar sands reserves, Canada has the second largest oil reserve in the world. Only Saudi Arabia is larger and Canada is ahead of both Iran and Iraq.

[KrustyKidd]

Not positive about this but I worked out in Alberta for a few years in the patch. The oil we worked with in Wabaska was piped to Chicago, it wasn't fuel grade. I think somebody said they used it for roads, plastics, oil, grease and stuff like that. Hopefully somebody can come forward with some better facts as mine are pretty loose. I just wanted to say that not all oil is created (or sold) equal.

[Guest eureka]

Canada;s tar sands reserves are estimated at about 175 billion barrels of oil that can be processed into fuel grade. The amount is much higher of that which can be recovered for other purposes - I suppose it can.

That compares to about an estimated 250 billion barrels in Saudi Arabia, Interestingly, though, I recently read an article that suggested the Saudi reserves were unknown since arbitrary figures were attached to them with changing world circumstances, The suspicion was that they really be much lower.

Of course, they could also be higher since no guage has been taken

[Big Blue Machine]

America's policy is taking from outside the country. Then when that fails, start using within the country.

[Big Blue Machine]

PLus, we shouldn't hog all our oil for ourselves. We should share. Sharing is good.

[ceemes]

Canada is by Treaty mandated to supplying the US with all the oil it demand during times of emergency, even if it means that Canadians go without.

Basically in the very unlike event that all other oil producers declare a total oil embargo on North America, Canada is required by law to suppliment the US even if it means Canadians are left shivering in the dark.

Whoever agreed to and signed this deal with the US is little more then a traitor to Canada and should be dragged out into the street and strung up by his neck at the first available lamp post or tree.

[idealisttotheend]

Whoever agreed to and signed this deal with the US is little more then a traitor to Canada and should be dragged out into the street and strung up by his neck at the first available lamp post or tree.

Ah, a fellow Mulroney hater, makes my heart sing. But then I guess it was Chretien who actually signed NAFTA (were the oil provisions in both the FTA and NAFTA, I think so but I can't remember).

The oil provisions are nothing short of colonialism but then my favorite casear post of all time best sums it :

  No doubt. The bully or ignore other trade issues.

We should opt out of free trade and turn off the oil.

I will start building my bomb shelter.

Just kidding. The question is, of course, would the Americans have anything to do with free trade without guarenteed access to our oil?

[August1991]

Canada is by Treaty mandated to supplying the US with all the oil it demand during times of emergency, even if it means that Canadians go without.

That's extremely misleading. In the US-Canada FTA (Mulroney, Idealist), we agreed that we would maintain the current supply of oil to the US in time of an emergency. IOW, we agreed not to cut the Americans off. [i cannot find quickly the relevant quote on the Internet.]

ceemus, you imply that the Americans have the right to take all our oil. This is wrong.

In addition, you ignore the fact that private individuals own the right to exploit our oil resources. They have signed contracts to deliver oil to US customers far into the future. Why should the Canadian or American governments be able to alter those contracts arbitrarily?

We should share. Sharing is good.

So when we finish this discussion, I'm taking everyone out for milk and cookies.

[idealisttotheend]

NAFTA S. 605

(a) the restriction does not reduce the proportion of the total export shipments of the specific energy or basic petrochemical good made available to that other Party relative to the total supply of that good of the Party maintaining the restriction as compared to the proportion prevailing in the most recent 36-month period for which data are available prior to the imposition of the measure, or in such other representative period on which the Parties may agree;

( the Party does not impose a higher price for exports of an energy or basic petrochemical good to that other Party than the price charged for such good when consumed domestically, by means of any measure such as licenses, fees, taxation and minimum price requirements. The foregoing provision does not apply to a higher price that may result from a measure taken pursuant to subparagraph (a) that only restricts the volume of exports; and

© the restriction does not require the disruption of normal channels of supply to that other Party or normal proportions among specific energy or basic petrochemical goods supplied to that other Party, such as, for example,between crude oil and refined products and among different categories of crude oil and of refined products.

The net effect is that if there is a shortage and we were exprorting 80% of our oil we must continue to export 80% according to sub a). Currently we export 62% to the US and the variable is that Eastern Canada imports almost a million barrels so in a crises Eastern Canada could find itself without oil that we were compelled to ship to the US. Of course it would require both an inability to import and a cut in production so maybe it's not so bad after all.

Globe story

In Calgary, Greg Stringham, vice-president of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, rattled off the round numbers of Canada's oil status: Production of 2.6 million b/d; exports (to the United States) of 1.6 million; imports (to Eastern Canada) of 800,000, and thus net exports of about 800,000.

(On an aside, note that economists in the Globe article are skeptical on high oil prices being a good thing for the countries as a whole but that they are a good thing for Western Canada. It's the NEP debate all over again)

[Big Blue Machine]

Americans are bully boys, with or without a trade deal. With a trade deal, we have fewer means of defending ourselves.

[Hawk]

During the Cold War, NSC-68 stated that one of the objectives of the administration to help back the fight against Russia was to "mobilize the public". Basically, this meant to start a propaganda movement internally to make the Americans empathize for the Russian people, and disdain the government "oppressing" them. I just wish everyone would not jump whole-heartedly behind one man. He is man, he makes mistakes.

You are saying that having people feel sorry for a massacred and oppressed people is 'propoganda'? You gotta be kidding me, its not propoganda its educating the people on the REALITY of the communist failure. Life isn't on paper, complete socialism doesn't work, and many many many people die whenever a small group of elite, 'enlightened' individuals sieze power of a country and turn it to Communism. Anyone who supports communist ideology should be exported to China as a Chinese immigrant (to get rid of American/Canadian protection and get a real feeling for how 'friendly', 'rich' and 'prosperous' they are)

Whoever agreed to and signed this deal with the US is little more then a traitor to Canada and should be dragged out into the street and strung up by his neck at the first available lamp post or tree.

No it gaurantees Canada's protection by the USA, think about it: If EVERYONE stopped giving the USA oil what would that mean? It would mean global economic chaos, because America has such economic clout and trust me they would use it until oil trade was reinstated. Until then however they would need a way to stay operational, and if Canada was supplying all their oil needs I doubt they would economically clout us =p

Your argument is pointless since it is almost totally impossible for the entire world to cease oil exports to the USA, and therefore this would never be an issue... and even if it was, I guess that the East would just need to spend some money to develop Alberta's oil fields till we can supply both the States and us.

Currently we export 62% to the US and the variable is that Eastern Canada imports almost a million barrels so in a crises Eastern Canada could find itself without oil that we were compelled to ship to the US.

Rofl I would laugh so long and hard if that happened, the East without oil from Alberta hahahahaa. It would make almost every Albertan's day to have the East suddenly realize 'omg, there IS an Alberta, I thought it was just Conservative propoganda' =p

Anyways, Alberta got alot more important recently... we have more oil than Saudi Arabia ( http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/102spring2002_...jects/M.Sexton/ )

Also recently there was developed a way to extract oil from tar sands that was allegedly 10x as productive and cheaper than standard procedures. If this development is implemented Alberta will become an economic power with enough economic clout to upset alot of power flows in Canada (shift West hehe). On top of that we could potentially fix alot of problems with the USA that continue to ferment (Such as BSE and softwood lumber), if they want our vast supplies of oil they better open the border to our cattle and wood

[Guest eureka]

It might be interesting for Albertans to note that about one third of Canadian production now comes from the Maritimes. More is being discovered there as Alberta's conventional resources are dwindling. The same with natural gas.

The Tar Sands now consume massive amounts of natural gas to bring the oil to the surface. This surely a great waste of a resource that may be more valuable than the oil in the Tar Sanda. Perhaps more reasonable methods are being found but this, in itself, imperils the future of Tar Sands production if they are not.

Does anyone have information about the Colorade shale deposits? Long ago I read something that put the potential oil reserves ther were about half that of the Athabaska Tar Sands. I have seen nothing about it in recent years.

[ceemes]

It might be interesting for Albertans to note that about one third of Canadian production now comes from the Maritimes. More is being discovered there as Alberta's conventional resources are dwindling. The same with natural gas.

The Tar Sands now consume massive amounts of natural gas to bring the oil to the surface. This surely a great waste of a resource that may be more valuable than the oil in the Tar Sanda. Perhaps more reasonable methods are being found but this, in itself, imperils the future of Tar Sands production if they are not.

Does anyone have information about the Colorade shale deposits? Long ago I read something that put the potential oil reserves ther were about half that of the Athabaska Tar Sands. I have seen nothing about it in recent years.

The technology of extracting oil for the tar sands has improved and combined with the world price of crude at this time, it is a very profitable endevour.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear ceemes,

The technology of extracting oil for the tar sands has improved and combined with the world price of crude at this time, it is a very profitable endevour

I read about two pevios proposals to build a nuclear power plant up in Fort Mac (short for MacNewfoundland) to help power extraction. I believe both proposals were 'too costly'.

I thought to myself, 'why extract the oil if nuclear power is cheaper'? But then I was made aware of two things. Most of the oil is for export, and given the prices, very profitable, and secondly, one cannot fit a nuclear power plant into the back of an Escalade. Yet.