dre Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Canadians from every political group have spoken http://m.torontosun.com/2011/12/15/no-veil-rule-has-support-of-canadians Canadians overwhelmingly support having Muslim women remove their veils to take the citizenship oath, a poll shows. Forum Research released figures Thursday showing a whopping 81% of those polled support having women who wear the niqab, or veil, remove it when they swear allegiance during citizenship ceremonies. Under sweeping regulations that take effect this week, federal Citizenship Minister Jason Kenney announced Muslim women will have to remove their niqabs or any other face-coverings such as burkas before reciting the oath of citizenship to become Canadian. Support for the new regulations was strongest in Quebec (89%) and lower in British Columbia (74%), Ontario (77%), and the Prairies (79%). And older residents were more likely to support Kenney in this. (68% aged 18 to 34; 84% aged 35 to 44; 88% 45 to 54; 87% 55 to 64; 89% 65+). When it comes to political party preference, not surprisingly, Tories were most likely to support the measure. All the same, people who said they were likely to vote for the other parties were overwhelmingly in favour of the measure. People who identified themselves as NDP supporters were 73% in favour. That figure was 75% among those who counted themselves as Liberals. Still, the high level of Quebec support for removing the veil puts all the Opposition parties in a tight spot if they oppose the government move, said Forum President, Lorne Bozinoff. “We don’t get a lot of numbers in the 80% range in the polling business,” Bozinoff said. “This is very unusual having people fairly unanimous on an issue like this.” It was expected there’d be a stinging backlash to the new regulations. Instead, these figures show the government will shore up support where it needs it most – in Quebec, said Bozinoff. The high approval rating for the new measure in that province will help the Tories, he said. “Any of the Opposition parties - the Liberals, the Bloc and the NDP - all their supporters are in favour of this idea, so it’s going to put them all in a tight spot and make it hard for them to oppose this idea.” The provincial NDP leader said she found the new regulation, “disconcerting.” “I don’t believe that the wearing of a garment for religious or cultural purposes is something that I have the right to tell somebody they can or can’t do,” said Andrea Horwath Tuesday. And Ontario’s Citizenship and Immigration Minister Charles Sousa said the decision falls under the federal government’s jurisdiction. “That said, we always want to ensure changes don’t hinder our diversity, which we believe is one of Ontario’s biggest strengths,” Sousa said. Its not suprising. Its also completely irrelevant what the "majority" thinks. The entire POINT of the charter is so that the majority cant legislate away minority rights. Like I said... popular expression needs no protection. Unpopular expression does. This will eventually be decided as a matter of law, and if the majority doesnt like the decision then too bad for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Seems to me that a princess outranks a knight. As to doctors, the latest medical school classes have a majority of women students. For that matter, females outnumber men on Canadian university campuses generally... Seems to you that she would, except for that whole era of romanticism where the princess longs for her "knight in shining armour." There are more female physicians now, but guess who gets paid more? Men because more of them are specialists now, as more and more specialized positions are being created. As for more women being on campus, they're highly concentrated in the arts (lowest paying degrees), while men are more highly concentrated in engineering, business, and law. Moreover, women are more likely to leave university before getting their PhD, while men stay for the long haul. That's in spite of women having greater numbers at the undergraduate level. Your use of statistics is deceptive at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 still a strong majority in every age group and provinces enough man, youre out of touch with canadians And? The majority of Canadians opposed gay marriage and abortion. A few decades ago, the majority of Canadians opposed interracial marriages. I don't much care what the majority of Canadians agree or disagree with. I care about what's right and just. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 I care about what's right and just. I choose Womens rights & Gay rights.. you can have all of the rights to an evil culture however Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Seems to me that a princess outranks a knight. As to doctors, the latest medical school classes have a majority of women students. For that matter, females outnumber men on Canadian university campuses generally... It is about equal men vs women. http://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/9/1385/F1.large.jpg The latter is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 I choose Womens rights & Gay rights.. you can have all of the rights to an evil culture however If you were for women's rights, you wouldn't turn them into criminals if they refuse to do something that they find humiliating. You would allow them to choose for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 You would allow them to choose for themselves. If only they did choose for themselves but we all know in Islam men call the shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) If only they did choose for themselves but we all know in Islam men call the shots If you were for women's rights, you wouldn't treat them like children that are incapable of making choices for themselves, you would empower them. Forcing them to do what you deem appropriate is not empowerment; it's continuing to dictate to them.It was less than a generation ago that in our society men called all the shots too. Especially in religious households were men were seen as God's word in the home. Edited December 17, 2011 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 If you were for women's rights, you wouldn't treat them like children that are incapable of making choices for themselves, you would empower them. Forcing them to do what you deem appropriate is not empowerment; it's continuing to dictate to them. It was less than a generation ago that in our society men called all the shots too. Especially in religious households were men were seen as God's word in the home. i havent seen you critical of muslim men once.. why not tell them to change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Because apparently I'm more of a libertarian than you and I'm a socialist. Wouldn't be hard since I'm no kind of Libertarian. They've always struck me as a sort of milder version of anarchists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 i havent seen you critical of muslim men once.. why not tell them to change I said the veil is sexist and misogynistic. I said some Muslims are terribly oppressive to women. The conversation at hand, though, is about Canada and what we're doing; thus, I'm criticizing Canada. You want to start a thread about Muslim oppression, have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 I said the veil is sexist and misogynistic. I said some Muslims are terribly oppressive to women. The conversation at hand, though, is about Canada and what we're doing; thus, I'm criticizing Canada. You want to start a thread about Muslim oppression, have at it. your solution is to wait it out and hope that young muslims assimilate? correct or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 If only they did choose for themselves but we all know in Islam men call the shots Some choose, some dont. In any case... that has nothing to do with the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 your solution is to wait it out and hope that young muslims assimilate? correct or no? Well... we KNOW they will assimilate. Theres a huge different between first and second generation immigrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 your solution is to wait it out and hope that young muslims assimilate? correct or no? Interesting... Ironically,you are the one who thinks we should do nothing about Iran and just let them develope their nuclear capabilities and see what happens then,are'nt you? In other words....Wait and see??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 As for more women being on campus, they're highly concentrated in the arts (lowest paying degrees), while men are more highly concentrated in engineering, business, and law. Moreover, women are more likely to leave university before getting their PhD, while men stay for the long haul. That's in spite of women having greater numbers at the undergraduate level. Your use of statistics is deceptive at best. I wouldn't say so. Professions are selected by the women involved. Who are you to tell them they should pick something else? You know, one of the things I've noticed over the past few years at work is how many bright young women long to get into the HR department. It kind of baffles me. It's a miserable place to work filled with endless meetings with very little of substantive accomplishments. But bright, university educated young women try, and in many cases, succeed in getting into HR branch. Well, the fact is advancement then becomes very limited, and as all your experience is now in HR you are kind of stuck there, finding it very difficult to move out into the various other areas of the corporation. But they don't care. Somehow, they see HR as dealing with human issues in some bizarro way. Women, by and large, will choose professions they see as being highly helpful in a variety of social ways, be it social work, teachers, doctors/nurses, psychologists, therapists, or, of course, expressive professions related to art and english and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Interesting... Ironically,you are the one who thinks we should do nothing about Iran and just let them develope their nuclear capabilities and see what happens then,are'nt you? In other words....Wait and see??? I dont trust Israel or Iran and do not condone pre emptive strikes based on speculation ala Iraq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Well... we KNOW they will assimilate. Theres a huge different between first and second generation immigrants. we're guessing or hoping is what we're doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Holy crap... This thread is a drunken car wreck. Were gonna talk about Irans nuclear program now? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Holy crap... This thread is a drunken car wreck. Were gonna talk about Irans nuclear program now? :lol: any thread that has 57 pages is bound to drift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 I dont trust Israel or Iran and do not condone pre emptive strikes based on speculation ala Iraq Wait a minute... There's an incongruency here... On one hand you are opining that Muslims either can't,or more likely won't,assimilate into North American secular society.On the other hand,you seem prepared to give the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN a pass on nuclear technological development because they have a fantastic record of restraint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Holy crap... This thread is a drunken car wreck. Were gonna talk about Irans nuclear program now? :lol: Amazingly,I'm not drunk yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Well... we KNOW they will assimilate. Theres a huge different between first and second generation immigrants. We know nothing of the sort. While we must be careful in our interpretations across categories, one conclusion seems clearly justified: a significant number, perhaps even a majority, of second generation Muslims in Canada are at least highly involved in their religion and some times more. The second generation is not being lost in significant numbers to the majority secularism of the Canadian population. My link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Amazingly,I'm not drunk yet... Start doing on shot of whiskey for each new page of utter nonsense added to this mockery of a thread, and I guarantee youll wake up with a hangover tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted December 17, 2011 Report Share Posted December 17, 2011 Start doing on shot of whiskey for each new page of utter nonsense added to this mockery of a thread, and I guarantee youll wake up with a hangover tomorrow. I have an unopened bottle of Jim Beam and some Four Roses Small Batch on hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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