Changes to XBOX Live Canada

[neobendez]

I'm still using Netflix. It also offers a “Netflix for Kids” area, which is a safe place for your kids to browse.

[Spiderfish]

It's trying to be an entertainment console not a computer.

Hard to consider it a comprehensive entertainment console if it doesn't play blu ray. I think PS3 has it beat in this regard.

[AngusThermopyle]

Actually the new consoles are nothing more than low powered crippled computers with limited capabilities and control options. Both new consoles use the exact same x86 architecture as computers. The main difference is that they both use crappy low powered Jaguar eight core cpu's running at a paltry 1.8ghz and graphics chipsets that are now several generations out of date. The Jaguar was actually intended as a mobile device cpu but proved to be too inefficient from a power consumption point of view to be of any use in phones, tablets and laptops. At least now these consoles can finally hit 1080p and utilize dx11. Still that's not that great when you consider that 2.5k is becoming pretty mainstream on computers and 4k is already here and dropping rapidly in price. Not too mention the lack of SSD's, lack of RAID, lack of true mass storage and, well, I could go on and on.

Personally I'll stick with my I7 running at 4.7ghz and twin GTX660's in SLI complimented by two SSD's in RAID 0. The kids can have the kiddie boxes to play on.

[cybercoma]

And you would pay 4x as much. Not to mention that "finally" 1080p is false. The PS3 is 1080p. As for storage, like its predecessor, the PS4 does have replaceable storage. Since consoles are intended for the living room, 2.5k and 4k graphics are overkill, since no one has a television that will handle that, nor will they any time soon. We'll see faster refresh become standard first and even then 24Hz is still movie standard, so I don't expect refresh to be 240hz anytime soon.

Anyway, if you want to be all "PC MASTER RACE" up in here, at least get your facts right about what you're criticizing.

[Boges]

And you would pay 4x as much. Not to mention that "finally" 1080p is false. The PS3 is 1080p. As for storage, like its predecessor, the PS4 does have replaceable storage. Since consoles are intended for the living room, 2.5k and 4k graphics are overkill, since no one has a television that will handle that, nor will they any time soon. We'll see faster refresh become standard first and even then 24Hz is still movie standard, so I don't expect refresh to be 240hz anytime soon.

Anyway, if you want to be all "PC MASTER RACE" up in here, at least get your facts right about what you're criticizing.

The sales of PCs, especially towers are plummeting because consumers are quickly moving towards mobile computing.

The new version of Windows is pretty much built ground up for tablets and touch-screen technology.

I've kind of grown out of the video game phase of my life. I invested in GTA5 and I think I played it for about a week before getting sick of it. The Xbox 360 does have excellent Netflix integration though. I probably will get an Xbox One once a good game comes out and/or a good bundle comes out. Also I expect bugs need to be found and fixed. I bought a 360 the month it came out in 2005 and had to get it replaced twice (Ring of Death FTW)

4k HD isn't going to be mainstream for years. I've actually noticed television tech has plateaued a bit. The 120hz 1080p TV I got in 2011 is still pretty good. 60hz models are still being sold.

HDTV is still being broadcast in 720p or 1080i so having a 1080p TV is only needed if you watch Blu-Rays or play video games. I never invested in a Blu-Ray because I get more than enough good quality movies from TMN/HBO and Netflix.

[AngusThermopyle]

Actually Cyber you are wrong. The PS3 is 720 x 1080, it is not true 1080 which is 1920 x 1080. As for cost, incorrect once more, for about $700 to $800 you can build a box that will easily kick both next gen systems to the curb handily. On top of that you still have all the functionality and capability of a computer. Should you decide later that you want more capability you can can easily and cheaply add new/more components to the PC, something you can't do with the consoles. Mass storage, do some more more research, there are limitations as to your storage options with the consoles, not to mention no SSD options at all. Overkill? When is a better experience ever overkill? I use my monitor for 2560 x 1440 gaming and on the rare occasion when I want to sit on the couch and game I use my 55" 3D TV. I can either use Steam Big Picture mode or just run without it. With my video cards I can also game in 3D, titles like Batman are 3D.

Give it one to two years and you'll find 4K TV's will have dropped drastically in price. Already 4K monitors have dropped in price. Dell makes a model you can get for as low as $700, just a few months ago they were $4000, that's quite a drop for a few months. What do you think it'll be in one to two years? Of course you did know that 4K TV's are already here didn't you? Having your facts right and all, right?

By the way I find the whole "PC MASTER RACE" thing rather silly and juvenile. You should consider dropping that act, it doesn't reflect kindly on you. If low power, cheap inferior boxes are your thing then good for you, you'll most likely enjoy yourself and that after all is the whole point, I much prefer power and versatility myself. Its all a matter of what you as an individual prefer, I just don't settle for compromises in anything.

[Boges]

Already 4K monitors have dropped in price. Dell makes a model you can get for as low as $700, just a few months ago they were $4000, that's quite a drop for a few months. What do you think it'll be in one to two years? Of course you did know that 4K TV's are already here didn't you? Having your facts right and all, right?

Who cares? TV programming is still being broadcast in 720p or less. You think all these networks that have finally adopted HD are suddenly going to invest capital in a new technology?

That's why 3DTVs were a bust, sure it's a cool novelty for movies but TV Networks were never going to adopt.

I read that Netflix may broadcast in 4K but I can imagine the bandwidth would be killer and I'm sure most people won't invest a few grand just to watch select programming on Netflix.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Boges

[Boges]

PC gaming may be of better quality, but it's not nearly as convenient to play on your big screen. It's like people who don't want to pay for cable but think they're getting comparable quality streaming to their computer.

The truth is, tablet and phone technology is quickly making PCs obsolete.

What will sink the console won't be big Super gaming computers, they've always existed throughout the multiple generations of consoles, it'll be games you can play for a few bucks or even free on your mobile device.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Boges

[AngusThermopyle]

Upscaling 4k players are already out there, if all you do is watch TV shows then you have a point. Some of us don't watch TV though, for myself I pretty well only watch movies. The 3D thing, well both my wife, myself and all my friends enjoy 3D quite a bit, some movies are simply spectacular in 3D, in fact I'm looking forward to watching the new 3D release of The Wizard of Oz this weekend, see how it compares to my collectors edition.

How is it not nearly as convenient? I turn on my TV, then my computer, then I sit back with my wireless controller, or, if I so desire my wireless keyboard and mouse. Where is the lack of convenience? Not to mention the fact that Civ V looks fantastic on 55". Web browsing and other functions on big screen are also far more satisfying.

Ahhh! The old computers are dead argument. In fact last year PC component sales were at their highest ever, sure, crap boxes from Best Buy or Future shop may be in decline but enthusiast sales are setting new records. Who cares about cheapo crap boxes anyway? Don't worry, Asus, Nvidia, AMD, MSI, Gigabyte etc. aren't going away anytime soon. In fact 2014 is ushering in a host of amazing tech advances in the PC world, true game changers.

You also forgot or don't know about the Steambox. This is in the wild now for testing and may prove to be a true game changer, I'm keeping a close eye on this one to see how it pans out. I've already downloaded Steam OS (free) but haven't had a chance to use it yet. The new Steam controller also looks very, very promising, light years ahead of anything currently available. Games for a few bucks? Try a Steam sale, you can get plenty of games for a few bucks, or if you want something better you can get titles like Far Cry 3 for $7.00 to $10.00. This is where things get really good as you can save a ton of money on games. Have you seen Assassins Creed PC release? It doesn't even look like the same game that you can get on console. Sorry, the new consoles are already way out of date, that's just a simple fact. As I said though, if consoles and phones float your boat then go for it. After all the only thing that counts is what you personally enjoy.

[Boges]

You seem to be an early adopter, which is fine.I'm just commenting on where entertainment appears to be going. I'd like to see some numbers to show that high-end PCs are surging. It's common knowledge that smartphone and tablet sales are surging.

PC gaming is popular, sure. I hear steam is great, I just don't really want to load up a PC to play a game, my money is to be spent elsewhere. I used to play PC games when I lived with my parents and had a PC set up in the basement, but now I spend most of my leisure time in my living room where a box under the TV is far more convenient. It's also not too energy efficient to have a PC on all the time.

Here's an article about 3DTV. It's cool to watch movies in the theatre in 3D but I think it's venture into the living room has been largely a failure.

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-reasons-3d-tv-movement-already-dead/

[GostHacked]

If most of this is free, or at least a good chunk of it, then cool. If I have to pay it's useless since I already have cable plus don't want to waste bandwidth.

I don't have Netflix but it is popular on Xbox Live and a convenient idea, but most of the other stuff, like Facebook and Twitter, is just fluff I don't use.

Why don't they just include a freaking internet browser so I can just surf the web (i'm sure it has everything to do with media control and $$$). Even the Wii has web browsing.

Reminds me of the term 'walled garden' in the early days of dial up and ISPs like AOL and other services.

[GostHacked]

It's trying to be an entertainment console not a computer.

Xbox Live has, and never will, look like a computer. It actually easily links to computers so you can play your music/videos on the xbox.

Why would Microsoft try to make something that would replace a PC.

XBOX IS a computer. Just configured for gaming and entertainment. The PS4 is also a computer, the Wii is a computer. You TV is becoming a computer with all the 'smart stuff in it.

[GostHacked]

Steam should be free to sign up for because you use it to pay for/download content.

XBL Gold allows you to play video games online in a very user-friendly manner.

Steam allows that as well. It's not the service but the type of people you play online with or against.

[Boges]

GH many of these posts are from 2011. Angus bumped a really old thread.

The new Xbox One attempts to be a complete entertainment system. Eventually you'll be able to access your cable through an Xbox One.

[GostHacked]

And you would pay 4x as much. Not to mention that "finally" 1080p is false. The PS3 is 1080p. As for storage, like its predecessor, the PS4 does have replaceable storage. Since consoles are intended for the living room, 2.5k and 4k graphics are overkill, since no one has a television that will handle that, nor will they any time soon. We'll see faster refresh become standard first and even then 24Hz is still movie standard, so I don't expect refresh to be 240hz anytime soon.

Anyway, if you want to be all "PC MASTER RACE" up in here, at least get your facts right about what you're criticizing.

But I can do 4x as much with my computer than I can with an XBOX. And those graphics are not overkill considering the TVs that people play on are now 120Hz or 240Hz and are built to handle that kind of thing.

And with movies being filmed in digital now, you get more than your 24Hz.

[GostHacked]

PC gaming may be of better quality, but it's not nearly as convenient to play on your big screen. It's like people who don't want to pay for cable but think they're getting comparable quality streaming to their computer.

The truth is, tablet and phone technology is quickly making PCs obsolete.

What will sink the console won't be big Super gaming computers, they've always existed throughout the multiple generations of consoles, it'll be games you can play for a few bucks or even free on your mobile device.

I can't play Day Z or Space Engineers or TF2 on a handheld. Nor would I want to. So the console and the desktop wont be going away anytime soon.

And most of those games offered for only a few bucks are for casual gamers.

[Boges]

But I can do 4x as much with my computer than I can with an XBOX. And those graphics are not overkill considering the TVs that people play on are now 120Hz or 240Hz and are built to handle that kind of thing.

And with movies being filmed in digital now, you get more than your 24Hz.

I don't know anyone that chooses to own a console and not a PC. They serve different purposes.

I always thought this about Tablets, why would someone own a Tablet, when even a Netbook which is cheaper and could do more?

But Tablets are more convenient to do simple computing than a PC and an Xbox is easier to play games on than a PC.

That being said, I still haven't bought into the Tablet craze, my smartphone is just as good and it fits in my pocket.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Boges

[GostHacked]

I don't know anyone that chooses to own a console and not a PC. They serve different purposes.

I always thought this about Tablets, why would someone own a Tablet, when even a Netbook which is cheaper and could do more?

But Tablets are more convenient to do simple computing than a PC and an Xbox is easier to play games on than a PC.

That being said, I still haven't bought into the Tablet craze, my smartphone is just as good and it fits in my pocket.

For power users like me, desktops are still the way to go. I have an Andriod phone with no dataplan. I rather keep the thing in my pocket while walking around town. That way I get to observe all the zombies giving nothing but face time to a small screen as they go about their day.

[dre]

Actually the new consoles are nothing more than low powered crippled computers with limited capabilities and control options. Both new consoles use the exact same x86 architecture as computers. The main difference is that they both use crappy low powered Jaguar eight core cpu's running at a paltry 1.8ghz and graphics chipsets that are now several generations out of date. The Jaguar was actually intended as a mobile device cpu but proved to be too inefficient from a power consumption point of view to be of any use in phones, tablets and laptops. At least now these consoles can finally hit 1080p and utilize dx11. Still that's not that great when you consider that 2.5k is becoming pretty mainstream on computers and 4k is already here and dropping rapidly in price. Not too mention the lack of SSD's, lack of RAID, lack of true mass storage and, well, I could go on and on.

Personally I'll stick with my I7 running at 4.7ghz and twin GTX660's in SLI complimented by two SSD's in RAID 0. The kids can have the kiddie boxes to play on.

My only real problem with consoles, is that I was an FPS gamer. I could flick my wrist and move across the screen in a fraction of a second and rail a guy. Console controllers are a complete joke for FPS gaming, and if you put a guy with one up against a keyboard and mouse, he wouldnt get a single frag.

Still... theres a place for consoles. Once in a while I enjoy sitting around with a few people playing golf for drinks or coins.

[dre]

That being said, I still haven't bought into the Tablet craze, my smartphone is just as good and it fits in my pocket.

I thought tablets were a really stupid idea until somebody bought me one. Now I use it more than my phone, and my computer (besides work).

[AngusThermopyle]

Boges, I didn't bump this thread, Spiderfish did. I just checked it because I saw someone else had bumped it. I'll find the source about record component sales for you when I get the chance. Notice I said component, not PC, as in pre built PC's. Although boutique PC's are doing quite well from what I understand, stuff like Digital Storm, Falcon Northwest etc. Anyway, I have to go to bed now, maybe later we can talk about Oculus Rift and its implications for gaming, or should we start a new thread for that one?

[Boges]

Boges, I didn't bump this thread, Spiderfish did. I just checked it because I saw someone else had bumped it. I'll find the source about record component sales for you when I get the chance. Notice I said component, not PC, as in pre built PC's. Although boutique PC's are doing quite well from what I understand, stuff like Digital Storm, Falcon Northwest etc. Anyway, I have to go to bed now, maybe later we can talk about Oculus Rift and its implications for gaming, or should we start a new thread for that one?

My apologies.

I just Googled Oculus Rift. I liked it better when it was the Virtual Boy :-D

[Moonlight Graham]

Actually Cyber you are wrong. The PS3 is 720 x 1080, it is not true 1080 which is 1920 x 1080. As for cost, incorrect once more, for about $700 to $800 you can build a box that will easily kick both next gen systems to the curb handily. On top of that you still have all the functionality and capability of a computer. Should you decide later that you want more capability you can can easily and cheaply add new/more components to the PC, something you can't do with the consoles. Mass storage, do some more more research, there are limitations as to your storage options with the consoles, not to mention no SSD options at all. Overkill? When is a better experience ever overkill? I use my monitor for 2560 x 1440 gaming and on the rare occasion when I want to sit on the couch and game I use my 55" 3D TV. I can either use Steam Big Picture mode or just run without it. With my video cards I can also game in 3D, titles like Batman are 3D.

Console wars and console vs pc debates are silly to me. To each their own, every console and the PC have their different strengths and weaknesses, and people choose what suits them. You've outlined a lot of the pros of having a PC in this thread. I also like the ability to add mods to PC games, like Elder Scrolls games etc. Free online multiplayer is also a big plus.

When I was younger I stuck with consoles in the NES and SNES/Genesis eras, but then PC gaming just got too awesome in the mid-90's to early 2000's with games like Doom, Tie Fighter, Unreal Tournament, point-and-click adventures, and a bazillion amazing RPG's. I was a hardcore PC guy, I skipped the PS1 and N64, and got myself killer 3D video cards etc. PC gaming was just too expensive then though, and hardware upgrades were too frequently necessary. I have stuck with consoles since the PS2/Xbox era.

PC gaming is getting more tempting though, since plugging a PC into an TV is much easier than before 5 years ago, the ability to use console controllers on PC, the price of PC hardware has dramatically lowered, and the technology leaps aren't nearly as dramatic as 10-20 years ago so upgrading is less frequent. The Oculus Rift is the #1 reason why I'd consider a switch to PC because it looks like it will be amazing. Eventually it could come to PS4/XB1 though. A lot of it essentially has to do with what kinds of games you want to play, since each console and the PC have exclusive franchises and genres better suited for each.

PC has many superior qualities to consoles, but consoles do have an edge to PC's in multiple ways. They're cheaper. They're more "plug and play" since you don't need to research a gazillion complicated hardware specs before buying your rig and install it all yourself or find/pay someone to do it, you don't have to worry about hardware requirements for games, you don't have to languish trying to make certain games work on your machine because of some install issues. Consoles and PC are closer to each other now more than ever. I think a lot of it comes down to what kind of games you like to play and how easy/convenient of an experience you want?

Love my Xbox 360, but right now Xbox One doesn't look right for me because I don't need all the extra multimedia extras that make the machine less powerful for gaming. Having the stupid Kinect working in the background and focusing strongly on multi-tasking so you can switch instantly between games and apps and TV takes up significant hardware resources on the Xbox One, and games like Call of Duty Ghosts haven't been able to run in 1080p on XB1 because of these hardware constraints, so I think the PS4 will be the more powerful machine for gaming. I want to see how the Oculus Rift delivers on PC though...lots of cool programs already being developed by indie programmers for it.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[GostHacked]

My apologies.

I just Googled Oculus Rift. I liked it better when it was the Virtual Boy :-D

Angry Video Game Nerd says otherwise ..

http://cinemassacre.com/2008/02/19/virtual-boy/

[AngusThermopyle]

Oculus Rift looks very promising so far. The reviews I've read all agree that this is one VR idea that seems to actually work. Of course you'll also look like super ultimate nerd dude using it though. A massive alien looking device strapped to your head, if I got one I'm sure the wife would be convinced that I've finally lost the rest of my mind.

The developers are working on making a version for the new consoles but there are problems they have to overcome in order to make it work. For instance Battlefield IV runs at 1280 x 720 on the Xbox One as does CoD Ghosts and Assassins Creed IV. The PS4 does manage 1080 on these titles, albeit at the expense of dialing down graphical effects in order to do so. The problem lies in the fact that the OR outputs 1080 and higher to two screens simultaneously, this is where the developers will have to make some compromises in order to make it work at an acceptable level on the consoles. Some in the industry are saying that it just may not be possible to do it at all with this generation of consoles.

This is just a part of the reason I'm so disappointed in the new consoles. For years now gaming has been held back by the consoles as developers code for the lowest common denominator which happens to be where the most profit can be made. As such those who have hardware that can run much more have had to settle for crappy low rez, low effects console ports. There are a few exceptions to the rule, one would be Assassins Creed which almost looks like a different game on PC, hopefully more will follow as well. The good news is that, apart from rabid fanboys, many people are starting to admit that the consoles are lacking in many area's and that PC simply outclasses them on all fronts. With this realization comes an upsurge in quality. I do know that several developers are working on better/added content for their PC releases, we'll have to wait and see what this equates to in real life though. With luck and added profit this may be the way in which PC gaming is unchained from the console ball and chain its been lugging around for years now.

OR is just one new tech coming up. This year will see some really great changes coming down the pipe. Things like video cards with their own CPU embedded in the card, new cores and processes, new RAM technology, increasing storage capacity and lower prices, etc. etc. The list is extensive and I could go on and on but I'm sure you get the overall picture.