Climategate Email Leak 2.0

[TimG]

There is no consensus like you claim there to be. Sorry.

Right. And that is exactly what climate sceptics say about climate science.

I am far from them. I compromise. Ideology does not.

BS. You refuse to even acknowledge the scientific consensus on minimum wages. You cling to a few studies that support your view and ignore the overwhelming evidence against it (gee, that argument sounds familiar - I wonder why?) Edited November 25, 2011 by TimG

[TimG]

Have people said that often ?

Read MiddleClassCentrist's posts.

He is a poster boy for leftists who project their own deficiencies on others.

Edited November 25, 2011 by TimG

[MiddleClassCentrist]

You refuse to even acknowledge the scientific consensus on minimum wages. You cling to a few studies that support your view and ignore the overwhelming evidence against it (gee, that argument sounds familiar - I wonder why?)

Show me the 90+% in agreement, please

If people make more money, they can spend it and generate other jobs. You can't spend money and generate economic activity if you have very little or none.

Lowering the worker wage provides a short term boost to jobs which is negated in the long term as people have less money to spend into the economy. Reducing employment available in the long term. This was a large factor of the great depression. If people can't buy products, no one will be paid to make them.

Raising worker wage provides a short term stall in hiring which is overcome as people have more money to spend into the economy spinning off more jobs. Long term job creation.

The problem is that it is way more complicated to show long term effects in a manner that black and white thinkers can understand and accept.

What formal business education do you have Tim? I'm just curious.

I have a degree in Business Administration, double major with Computer Engineering. I don't feel that you are fully explaining your reasoning adequately on the matter. Anyone with economy in mind knows that long term is more important than short term when considering the health of a country's economy.

I am not forming my opinion by ideologically saying that we need to pay people more regardless of market conditions. That would be absurd. I'm saying that people who don't have money can't spend it. Without spending, the economy suffers. That is a fact good sir. A reasonable(up for argument) wage should be set to ensure that people with jobs have money to generate economic activity(more jobs) through consumption. Is generating economic activity part of leftist ideology now? who knew.

Back on topic, explain your personal logical process where you come to the conclusion that climate change is not a problem and whether we should do anything about it. Maybe I missed the post early on.

Edited November 25, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Read MiddleClassCentrist's posts.

He is a poster boy for leftists who project their own deficiencies on others.

I enjoy the personal attack. Thank you.

I also find it hilarious that the right wingers consider me a leftist. Anything left of crazy right is a leftist, apparently. Those I know find it equally humorous knowing me a little better than random internet ideologues.

Conservatively speaking, I'm a leftist revolutionary with such progressive ideas like investing in grass roots businesses and lowering small business taxes but, not subsizing large and healthy corporations/industries. Might as well call me a communist and put me on trial.

[TimG]

If people make more money, they can spend it and generate other jobs. You can't spend money and generate economic activity if you have very little or none.

A theory that is made irrelevant by globalization. Raise the minimum wage and raise the cost of living. Raising the cost of living reduces the ability of international businesses to compete with rivals in lower cost juristitions. The net result will be job loss.

In any case, I gave you a link to a summary of the literature on the topic:

We review the burgeoning literature on the employment effects of minimum wages – in the

United States and other countries – that was spurred by the new minimum wage research

beginning in the early 1990s. Our review indicates that there is a wide range of existing

estimates and, accordingly, a lack of consensus about the overall effects on low-wage

employment of an increase in the minimum wage. However, the oft-stated assertion that

recent research fails to support the traditional view that the minimum wage reduces the

employment of low-wage workers is clearly incorrect.

I am not forming my opinion by ideologically saying that we need to pay people more regardless of market conditions. That would be absurd.

Nonsense, a minimum wage is, by deinition, an idelogical decision to pay people more regardless of market conditions. You are twisting yourself in knots trying to pretent your ideological position as something other than idelogical.

BTW: I happen to support a minimum wage but I acknowledge that the cost will be higher unemployment. To deal with that I would rather see money spent on education/training programs that increase the skill sets of the labour pool.

Edited November 25, 2011 by TimG

[TimG]

I enjoy the personal attack. Thank you.

Just calling them as I see them: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=19845&view=findpost&p=733792

I also find it hilarious that the right wingers consider me a leftist. Anything left of crazy right is a leftist

No. Anyone who demonizes and stereotypes conservatives is a leftist. A centrist is someone who can under the merits in positions on both extremes even if they disagree on specific topics. I see no such open mindedness in your posts.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Just calling them as I see them: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=19845&view=findpost&p=733792

That is a generalization good sir. I was not trying to insult your well being or mental state

No. Anyone who demonizes and stereotypes conservatives is a leftist. A centrist is someone who can under the merits in positions on both extremes even if they disagree on specific topics. I see no such open mindedness in your posts.

Hey now, I never said there weren't merits of no minimum wage. I could use servants.

What makes this funnier is that even the CBC vote compass put me right of centre between Liberal and Conservative. When it comes down to it. Conservatives label everyone "left" who doesn't fit their mold.

[cybercoma]

There shouldn't be morality involved... just numbers. Falling wages is a number...

Well that's just silly. If you're tackling unemployment, everyone could be employed if they weren't paid anything. Morality is always involved.

[cybercoma]

So you are assuming that the state will support anyone who can't find a job? That again is a moral choice - not one based on science or data.

The State doesn't support people with EI. It's insurance purchased by the employee and employers. It's supposed to be self-sufficient.

[Michael Hardner]

Well that's just silly. If you're tackling unemployment, everyone could be employed if they weren't paid anything. Morality is always involved.

You should be able to look at the arguments and add your own values to reach a decision.

[Michael Hardner]

The State doesn't support people with EI. It's insurance purchased by the employee and employers. It's supposed to be self-sufficient.

Is it though ?

Seems not - http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/flaherty-hits-brakes-on-ei-premiums/article1734670/?service=mobile

[cybercoma]

Is it though ?

Seems not - http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/flaherty-hits-brakes-on-ei-premiums/article1734670/?service=mobile

Remember when EI had excess funds? What happened? I know there's problems with it now, but in theory it's supposed to be self-sufficient.

This really is thread drift, so we should probably stop discussing it here though.