The Big Lie: Fraser Institute School Report Card

[maplesyrup]

Are Private Schools Really Better?

Public schools consistently outperform

Bluman's results are startling for anyone familiar with the Fraser Institute's rankings. "Consistently the public schools have done better than the independent schools, and that goes way back. Every year they've done better for 20, 25 years. It's a bit complex, but in fact the gap has widened over the years … in the old days the independent schools had a higher fraction doing well in the math test relative to the public schools, but now it's the other way around. Public schools are at the top end, the very top end."

Have no objections to private schools as long as not one cent of public money, either in grants, subsidies, or tax breaks, goes towards their support.

[playfullfellow]

Have no objections to private schools as long as not one cent of public money, either in grants, subsidies, or tax breaks, goes towards their support. 

And why do you say this MS? Why shouldn't parents be allowed to send kids to the school of their preference? I have a special needs child who could not get the help or services needed to help him in school. In public school he was ridiculed, pushed around and threatened. The teachers generally did not care. We put our kid in a private school and you would not believe the difference. He does very well and the teachers actually like the kids they are hired to teach. I think taxpayers should have some say in where their portion of the school tax money goes each year. Maybe not the whole amount but at least a portion.

[maplesyrup]

I have a special needs child who could not get the help or services needed to help him in school. In public school he was ridiculed, pushed around and threatened. The teachers generally did not care.

Well that does cedrtainly does not sound like like a very healthy situation. Perhaps a large part of the problem is that a huge amount of the public resources that ought to go to the public school system, are being drained off by the private school system.

My understanding is that regular private schools were not very supportive of special needs children, and often refused to accept them, but that the public system accepted them all.

Anyone who has awareness of special needs people I'm sure, realizes the importance of having a highly educated and tolerant society.

[playfullfellow]

I have to agree with you MS to a certain point but what I have found with private schools, well in Alberta anyways, they accept special needs kids adn do a very good job with them. It is not the public system in general that is the problem, it is the other kids in a public system that can be a problem. I am not saying every public school is the same. It has a lot to do with the teachers and administration of each school as to how that school is.

I went through the public school system, some of the schools were very good and some were just terrible, mostly dependant on the principle and his way of running things.

Throwing more money at the public system wont alleviate the problems we see happening now a days. More money does not solve all problems. You expound freedom of choice of so many of your threads but yet you feel the government knows best on how to educate and pick the morals you need to follow. How does the government know what is best for my child? They label him, put him in a certain category and expect him to behave as they have labeled him. This does not work, that is institutionalizing kids and labeling them which is wrong. Through the private school system, we get to have one on ones with the teacher and make recommendations as to how to help our kid. The public system wants no input from parents as to how they educate our kids. If they are to teach my kids, I want a say in what they are taught.

[maplesyrup]

At David Thompson, a tiny fraction of students speak English as their mother tongue — only 15 per cent — while one in five have special needs. But private schools like St. George's take only those who successfully pass entrance exams, effectively ruling out students with language or other difficulties.

pff.....any group, whether it is a family, a school, a busineess, or a government, works best for the people involved, where all the parties work together for the good of the person, student, client, etc.

Had some involvement in a school breakfast program in a poor area, when I lived in Toronto. At that school, everyone worked together for the good of the students, and teachers were lined up around the block to work there. It was a very motivating atmosphere.

[playfullfellow]

MS, unfortunately the school you refer to is not the norm anymore in the public school system. Yes, there are many good schools out there but there are also quite a few bad ones. This goes for the private system too but a bad private school will fail from lack of attendance, a bad public school gets to stay in business.

My kids do extremely well in the private system and love school. Their preference is the private system as they know quite a few kids from the public system and they are rude obnoxious little brats.

Since my kids do very well in a private system, why should I not be able to say my tax dollars go to that school? If my kids not do well in the school, then I would have to look at other options.

[caesar]

Well the Fraser institute ranks most of the private schools over private schools. What makes this Bluman fellow more of an expert in judging schools.

playful "they know quite a few kids from the public system and they are rude obnoxious little brats.

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That was quite unnecessary. I remember kids across the street from our school that swore like sailors; their parents sent them to a private scyhool.

My step son went to St Georges school; and many of the kids there were very rude and snotty.

Kids are kids whereever they go to school.

I worked at a drycleaners that did the kids clothes for St Georges school. Believe me I found marijuana and condoms in many pockets and those were the juniors.

[playfullfellow]

Caesar, thats might be in your neighbourhood, around here a lot of the kids from the public school are little pukes. I am not saying that private schools are perfect but public systems are far from perfect too. As for kids swearing like sailors and all that, that problem starts at home and the lack of a bar of soap.

[willy]

Private Schools do have higher performing students.

Here is why?

Kids tend to be more economically advantaged (i.e. good diet, tutors ect.)

Parents tend to be more engaged

Entrance exams limit the bottom end of the scale from entering

Teachers are held to higher standards and length of service less important

Higher expectations on the students (they are expected to go to university)

I have gone to public and private schools in BC and Alberta. I currently volunteer at a private school in Vancouver and still work with kids in the public system.

Kids in private school do perform better academically but they don’t learn the personal responsibility for education those in the public system must learn to succeed. The private school kids tend to be sheltered from many of the issues of the city. This slows their maturation.

As the pros and cons go, I would much prefer my kids to go through the private schools.

As for the draining of resources.

The private schools in BC only receive half of what public schools receive in funding, the rest to tuition and fundraising. We have a surplus of teacher coming out of school every year so it is not draining the public system. The public system is just not able to compete. Removing the competition will not benefit our kids or our schools.

[Cartman]

Discipline is lacking in schools today and teachers' hands are often tied. There are so many problem children with problem parents. The latter often consider schools merely to be dumping grounds. Sadly, few parents ever show up to meet their childrens' teachers who are often treated like scum as far as I am concerned.

I do not see why your children should face any of this crap at either schools. If there is a problem, place the problem children in a more disciplined environment. Public education should not be regarded as a right and it should not be allowed to degrade because of the bad apples. As long as parents attend, I have no problem with using the strap. If people do not like that, then they should pay for their kids to go elsewhere or learn to discipline them!

[Michael Hardner]

I should point out that the survey results don't mean that a kid will do better in one system or the other. The professor can only rule out so many cofactors.

That said, it's a well-known fact that teaching college graduates are paid better in the public system, so they will attract better people.

[Bro]

it's a well-known fact that teaching college graduates are paid better in the public system, so they will attract better people.

No,they will attract people who are more interested in a

bigger paycheque for what they do.This does not make them more qualified than a teacher in the seperate board

or a private school who took on the job to teach,and did not worry that they are not the highest paid in their profession.

[playfullfellow]

Both systems have both good and bad teachers but I find that the private system has better parent teacher relationships. I can do a sit in on any class my kids are in anytime I want to. If I want to do that in the public system, I have to get written permission from the board.

I also find that since I have a learning challenged child, I can work a lot better one on one with a teacher in the private system, the public system had no interest in what I thought was best for my kid. They just wanted to label him, drug him and then set him off to the side until he is an adult. Where do you think my preference will lie?

[Cartman]

I was talking to a couple of my students in education who worked in private schools and they said special needs students are treated much better than in the public system here in Alberta. I am not clear why this is the case though. It concerns me if our pubilc schools are not providing sufficient service to everyone considering we are all paying for it.

[Michael Hardner]

No,they will attract people who are more interested in a

bigger paycheque for what they do.This does not make them more qualified than a teacher in the seperate board

or a private school who took on the job to teach,and did not worry that they are not the highest paid in their profession.

Sorry, Bro. Are you saying the market system doesn't work ?

It seems to work for pro athletes and doctors. Why not teachers ?