dre Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Who cares how the Libyan people are in a few years…..A long as our investments are safe and they don’t pose a threat towards us, let them run their country the way they want You care! Youre gonna be the guy telling me once again how we need to pour more blood and treasure into that dump over there as soon as this little adventure comes back to bite me in the ass and theres yet another mole to wack. let them run their country the way they want Youre god damn right buddy! No reason to even launch a single DINGY and sail in that direction. Let them sort out their own problems, and if its energy security youre worried about spend the trillions of dollars we waste in the middle east on developing energy resources and increasing global supply. Canada probably could have doubled its output by investing all this money on domestic production, which would have not only put downward pressure on prices and made the aggregate supply more stable, it would have reduced the ammount of disposable income for countries like Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
blueblood Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Yeah thats exactly my point. Once we decide its the policy of our country and the responsibility of our taxpayers to fix problems in the middle east it will never end. Always another mole to whack, and always dealing with the problems caused by your last few adventures. I would like to try something different. Anyhow... you and I are starting to in circles and make the same points over again. Not much point in continuing with this particular angle. I respect your opinion and enjoyed the debate. I would like to ask you one more thing though... Your biggest concern seems to be energy security. You made it clear with numerous statements that if it wasnt for the worlds dependance on that energy youd could care less what happens over there. In the last fifty years the west has probably spent in excess of 5 trillion of todays dollars over there. Trying to "fix" the middle east is by FAR the most expensive project that the human race has ever embarked on. Do you realize that we have probably spent more money on interventionalism in the middle east, then we have on ALL ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT IN HISTORY ? And a follow up question. If energy security is the goal and Canada has a spare 10 - 50 billion dollars kicking around... Dont you think we would do more for global energy security by developing our own energy assets and increasing our already rather large volume of oil exports, than we will by being a small bit-player in a G8 VS Iran entanglement? Not to mention putting that money into energy production would stimulate our economy and create jobs. Putting it into a war will simply create inflation and put a drain on our domestic economy. Wouldnt money spent on energy production in politically stable Canada be more valuable to global supplies than causing instability in the middle east by exploding stuff? Your not looking at this in the long term. It is about energy security, the USA has ample reserves and r and d capabilities, but why not use up all that cheap easy to get at middle east oil , use it all and in the long term they're milking a dry cow. After that, the middle east will have zero influence and the west won't have any business there. Whether they diversify their economy with our investments and make their lives better will be up to them. If I have obscene reserves of nat. Gas, easy access to oil, and am the worlds largest grain exporter, I'm going to milk the middle east dry, soak them on grain and then switch to nat gas when the middle east is without a pot to piss in. Problem solved! Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
grogy Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 I have a feeling this is different plus its Israel ...China and Russia are sick and tired of Israel and its treatment to the Palestinians So you actually think that Russia and China give a shit about Palestinians? lol Quote
grogy Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 interesting article about israeli newspapers insinuating mossad is responsible for the explosion in iran time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2099376,00.html?xid=gonewsedit it would explain this http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/israel-hails-blast-at-iran-guards/story-e6frg6so-1226194250209 apparently there was just one big explosion instead of multiple which are common with amunition depot explosions it was felt 25 miles away in tehran which is strong this was not an accident Not an accident,,i'm sure you have proof to back your assertions? Quote
olp1fan Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 So you actually think that Russia and China give a shit about Palestinians? lol no, but they oppose Israel bombing irans nuclear program is nuking russian and chinese interests must not happen Quote
olp1fan Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Not an accident,,i'm sure you have proof to back your assertions? most people suspect it was Mossad Quote
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Yeah thats exactly my point. Once we decide its the policy of our country and the responsibility of our taxpayers to fix problems in the middle east it will never end. Always another mole to whack, and always dealing with the problems caused by your last few adventures. I would like to try something different. Anyhow... you and I are starting to in circles and make the same points over again. Not much point in continuing with this particular angle. I respect your opinion and enjoyed the debate. I would like to ask you one more thing though... Your biggest concern seems to be energy security. You made it clear with numerous statements that if it wasnt for the worlds dependance on that energy youd could care less what happens over there. In the last fifty years the west has probably spent in excess of 5 trillion of todays dollars over there. Trying to "fix" the middle east is by FAR the most expensive project that the human race has ever embarked on. Do you realize that we have probably spent more money on interventionalism in the middle east, then we have on ALL ENERGY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT IN HISTORY ? I can agree that nation building, of any stripe, that is not in our direct interests, is indeed a waste of money….But as I’ve said, you can’t undo the past, and if next week Iran decided to blockade the Persian Gulf, it is in our interest to intervene as opposed to sit on the sidelines….The die has been cast….genie’s out of the bottle etc etc etc…..Even if we decided that, yes, we’re going to further subsidize and invest in energy independence, it would be at least a decades process and unfortunately, the Middle East still will be a key player on the world scene….. I’ve even advocated further development of North America’s energy reserves……..There is zero reason, other than a lack of will, why Canada/United States/Mexico can’t become a net exporter of energy, be it in current fossil fuel form, or in the future some form(s) of “green energy”…..But being pragmatic, this won’t be for a decade(s) at best, an in the mean time, we do rely upon Middle Eastern oil and all the inherent headaches. And a follow up question. If energy security is the goal and Canada has a spare 10 - 50 billion dollars kicking around... Dont you think we would do more for global energy security by developing our own energy assets and increasing our already rather large volume of oil exports, than we will by being a small bit-player in a G8 VS Iran entanglement? Not to mention putting that money into energy production would stimulate our economy and create jobs. Putting it into a war will simply create inflation and put a drain on our domestic economy.Wouldnt money spent on energy production in politically stable Canada be more valuable to global supplies than causing instability in the middle east by exploding stuff? In the short term, to be blunt, no, it’s not realistic, and even if North America’s needs could be met from within, it would/will still hurt the global economy with a interruption in Mid-East oil You care! Youre gonna be the guy telling me once again how we need to pour more blood and treasure into that dump over there as soon as this little adventure comes back to bite me in the ass and theres yet another mole to wack. Maybe, maybe not…..they might “behave” long enough for the first world to achieve energy independence, which if is the case, they will be further marginalized and we won’t have further interests in the region…….Again, this is an argument of conjecture, since neither of us will know with certainty what the future will bring in the coming decades. Youre god damn right buddy! No reason to even launch a single DINGY and sail in that direction. Let them sort out their own problems, and if its energy security youre worried about spend the trillions of dollars we waste in the middle east on developing energy resources and increasing global supply. Canada probably could have doubled its output by investing all this money on domestic production, which would have not only put downward pressure on prices and made the aggregate supply more stable, it would have reduced the ammount of disposable income for countries like Iran, and Saudi Arabia. How did Keystone XL turn out? Perhaps we need a Daryl Hannah to support further Tar Sands production Quote
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) most people suspect it was Mossad Who is "most people"? And if it was the Mossad, where is all the fire and brimstone that Iran promised? Why is the Iranian government calling it an accident? Wouldn’t it be in their interest to play this for all it’s worth in the propaganda campaign fixed against Israel? I think it's time for a little song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7-K6-oNFs8 Edited November 14, 2011 by Derek L Quote
olp1fan Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) Who is "most people"? And if it was the Mossad, where is all the fire and brimstone that Iran promised? Why is the Iranian government calling it an accident? Wouldn’t it be in their interest to play this for all it’s worth in the propaganda campaign fixed against Israel? I think it's time for a little song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7-K6-oNFs8 Iran doesnt want things to escalate to that level which is what would have happened if they said so Iran doesnt want a war Israel does but yeah do some research, experts are saying it was mossad iranians are fleeing the country Edited November 14, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Iran doesnt want things to escalate to that level which is what would have happened if they said so Iran doesnt want a war Israel does So Iran, as you suggest, will just roll over? That’s great news, the conflict will be over in no time….. Quote
olp1fan Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 So Iran, as you suggest, will just roll over? That’s great news, the conflict will be over in no time….. you really are delusional if you think it will be a painless, quick war Quote
dre Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 So Iran, as you suggest, will just roll over? That’s great news, the conflict will be over in no time….. Nope. Iran will continue to be a middle tier regional player, and exert a bit of influence here and there. And it will continue to support Shia muslims by proxy in places like Lebanon and Iraq. But they will probably cause MORE problems in the region if we commit an act of unprovoked war against them. We will also be greatly assisting the hardliners in Iran and the Islamic leaders. Their bread and butter lies in their ability to blame outsiders for all of Irans problems, and in painting the west as an aggressor. We will be proving them right. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 you really are delusional if you think it will be a painless, quick war Didn’t you just suggest that it has already started with : Iran doesnt want things to escalate to that level which is what would have happened if they said soIran doesnt want a war Israel does but yeah do some research, experts are saying it was mossad iranians are fleeing the country But they're being good sports and playing it down now? If they were just going to roll over as you suggest that they are, why build nukes in the first place, or when told to stop production, why didn't they? Quote
olp1fan Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 People are counting on Iranian citizens to revolt but if we attack them they will rally and get behind their government then you have a huge problem Quote
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Nope. Iran will continue to be a middle tier regional player, and exert a bit of influence here and there. And it will continue to support Shia muslims by proxy in places like Lebanon and Iraq. But they will probably cause MORE problems in the region if we commit an act of unprovoked war against them. We will also be greatly assisting the hardliners in Iran and the Islamic leaders. Their bread and butter lies in their ability to blame outsiders for all of Irans problems, and in painting the west as an aggressor. We will be proving them right. Well olp1fan has suggested, with the support of "experts", that Israel has already started the "war" and Iran has yet to respond, and are denying Israel even attacked them, citing an accident at their missile facility, which claimed the head of their ICBM program.... Quote
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 People are counting on Iranian citizens to revolt but if we attack them they will rally and get behind their government then you have a huge problem So why label the "attack" as nothing but an accident? Quote
olp1fan Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Didn’t you just suggest that it has already started with : But they're being good sports and playing it down now? If they were just going to roll over as you suggest that they are, why build nukes in the first place, or when told to stop production, why didn't they? Iran said it was ammunition camp when it was really a missile camp the blast was so huge it was felt 25 miles away in Tehran... people thought it was Israeli war planes it killed the top missile guy in the revolutionary guard don't tell me all this was just coincidence im not that stupid Quote
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Iran said it was ammunition camp when it was really a missile camp the blast was so huge it was felt 25 miles away in Tehran... people thought it was Israeli war planes it killed the top missile guy in the revolutionary guard don't tell me all this was just coincidence im not that stupid So why claim it an accident? Quote
blueblood Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 Nope. Iran will continue to be a middle tier regional player, and exert a bit of influence here and there. And it will continue to support Shia muslims by proxy in places like Lebanon and Iraq. But they will probably cause MORE problems in the region if we commit an act of unprovoked war against them. We will also be greatly assisting the hardliners in Iran and the Islamic leaders. Their bread and butter lies in their ability to blame outsiders for all of Irans problems, and in painting the west as an aggressor. We will be proving them right. Or there is the option of using all their oil and taking away their future revenues. By those people there keeping those dictators in place, those dictators will squander their money on trinkets and will have nothing left when the oil runs out. This is a near 100 year long term strategy here that the Americans, Chinese, and Russians are doing quite well. When the oil runs out, the middle easts influence goes to zero and they have to come hat in hand to us for our grain. They're painted into a corner. If all the oil is used up in the middle east, they won't get to enjoy hi energy prices and will be a big victim to them. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
olp1fan Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 So why claim it an accident? they are not ready for a war against Israel they may bark but they have no bite Quote
Guest Derek L Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 they are not ready for a war against Israel they may bark but they have no bite They’re not ready? Well that’s the perfect time for the Israelis to strike….So why not use the “Mossad attack” to rally the people? Quote
olp1fan Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 They’re not ready? Well that’s the perfect time for the Israelis to strike….So why not use the “Mossad attack” to rally the people? there will be more covert attacks of mossad getting help from iranian opposition groups thats been going on for years there you're right, right now is the best time for Israel to strike Iran does not want war... they just talk big.. they bluff, they are just full of shit Israel is the dangerous country.. theyll try to provoke Iran enough to start a real war Quote
kactus Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) You gotta love this...The official Iranian press release states that is was an accident while moving munitions....There are still people here saying it must have been Mossad.Who is sabre rattling now? http://uk.news.yahoo.com/huge-blast-hits-guards-west-tehran-reports-113055900.html;_ylt=A2KLPyPyzr5OoVEAawfOfMl_;_ylu=X3oDMTNxODZiNjduBG1pdANUb3BTdG9yeSBXb3JsZFNGBHBrZwNlYzczOGU4Yi03NmUzLTM4Y2YtYmNhNS1lNWFhMGU4ZTBkZWUEcG9zAzUEc2VjA3RvcF9zdG9yeQR2ZXIDZTdjY Apparently we should believe that Iran has one or two nuclear bombs because we are told so. On the other hand there is another twist to this story with some people claiming that Iran is a decade away from a nuclear bomb. Make up your mind ffs... Edited November 14, 2011 by kactus Quote
dre Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 "Unfortunately the fax that I received from the site of the incident was not legible, and the figure 27 was announced, whereas the number of martyrs stands at 17," commander Ramezan Sharif said :lol: Their fax machine didnt work right. LOL. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
kactus Posted November 14, 2011 Report Posted November 14, 2011 There were no reports linking the blast to any air strike or other attack. Tension has risen in recent weeks between Iran and its enemies Israel and the United States, which have not ruled out attacking facilities whose occupants they believe are working towards making nuclear weapons. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/11/12/uk-iran-blast-idUKTRE7AB0BA20111112?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.