Klein

[Cartman]

I hope that somebody has not already posted this item already.

http://sympatico.msn.globeandmail.com/serv...patico-business

What do you think?

[playfullfellow]

I don't know if his numbers are accurate but I must assume so because this is the sort of stuff they research. What I do know is that living in Alberta isn't too bad right now. Yeah we have our problems but so does every region in the country. We have a pretty good economy right now despite past drought problems and the BSE dilema which has cost the province a whole whack of money. I wonder if some of the spending they are talking about includes money spent to help out farmers over the past 3-4 years? If so, then I can understand that our spending is so high. Ralph has his problems but overall, he has done a pretty good job and I hope he will continue to do so. Most of his future problems will come from special interest groups and unions that figure they need a larger slice of the pie now that Alberta is basically debt free.

[kimmy]

The figures in the article certainly differ from the conventional wisdom that Klein has paid off the debt "on the backs of the poor."

On a related note, here is an article on what "Alberta-style healthcare" really means:

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/Articl...National/Canada

-kimmy

[Cartman]

Great article Kimmy. I have also read that because we were the first to start reducing our deficit (partly because of economic growth), we are also the first to be able to expand services. The other provinces delayed.

But what I just cannot get is why the hell Ralph made those dumb comments that cost Harper quite a few votes? Apparently there are Alberta Cons. who were a little choked at him. When he said that he would release the news two days after the fed. election, he added to the fears that Cons. had a "secret agenda". Without a policy convention, this gave Martin a lot of ammunition. Had he come out and publicly defended the system and demonstrated this info. in your article, he might have made a big difference for the Cons.

[I miss Reagan]

I think Klein's a dope for opening his fat trap. I think Ontario voters are dumb to believe that there was some secret agenda. They wanted to believe it though. They just wanted any excuse to vote against the cons.

Klein does spend a lot. Contrary to popular belief Alberta spends more per capita than any other province. There are a lot of red tories in the PC party of Alberta. But as everywhere people will run for the party which will win.

This is why I'm voting for the Alberta Alliance next election.

[Cartman]

Do you think that the Alberta Alliance will get anywhere anytime soon? I guess they got one seat so, really, they are not too far away from the official opposition.

You are quite right, there are a lot of red Tories out here especially in the North. A strange concept perhaps, but one that makes sense out here (since there really is little opposition to the Cons right now).

[takeanumber]

Spender.

[Big Blue Machine]

I think Klien is a good guy. He derserves a fourth huge majority. Alberta is the only province that has a one-party control.

[idealisttotheend]

Alberta is the only province that has a one-party control.

And you agree with this??? One party control tends to be bad for democracy.

As for Klien, he is pragmitist above all else but more of a spender (at election time) than a butcher.

[Big Blue Machine]

It is basically one party control in Alberta because the Cons won all but 10 seats in 2001. I think. the last time Alberta elected a different party to governemtn was Harry Strom of the Social Credit in 1968. In 1971, he was defeated by Peter Lougheed of the Conservatives.

Ralph Klien did to Alberta like what Mike Harris did for Ontario. He transformed the economy. Made cuts to services that needed to be done.

[takeanumber]

And why does Klein always get re-elected?

Because Albertans see him as one of themselves.

In other words, Albertans agree with drunkard bullying plagerists who hate homosexuals, think Gettymandering is alright, believe in direct democracy while simultaneously rejecting, hate the media while simultaneously proclaiming its freedom, and being rude, pessimistic and otherwise hipocritical.

Yup. Sounds like Alberta.

[kimmy]

And why does Klein always get re-elected?

Because Albertans see him as one of themselves.

In other words, Albertans agree with drunkard bullying plagerists who hate homosexuals, think Gettymandering is alright, believe in direct democracy while simultaneously rejecting, hate the media while simultaneously proclaiming its freedom, and being rude, pessimistic and otherwise hipocritical.

Yup.  Sounds like Alberta.

Congratulations on setting the bar high!

drunkard

Albertans are drunkards?

I believe Klein has been dry for about 3 years, since that well-publicized incident. Like many Canadians of all political stripes and social status, Ralph liked to go on a bender from time to time.

The fact that Ralph would go to a regular bar and drink with regular people might be a clue to why people can related to him. Perhaps you might think on that.

bullying

Could you expand on that?

plagerists

Albertans are plagerists?

Gettymandering

You'll have to explain this term for me.

believe in direct democracy while simultaneously rejecting

While simultaneously rejecting what?

hate the media while simultaneously proclaiming its freedom

To paraphrase Voltaire, I disagree with what the media says, but I will defend the media's right to say it.

Is anybody in Canada really excited about the media? Those on the left say the media is controlled by corporate interests. Those on the right resent the CBC and CRTC. People in "the regions" feel that the national media is too dominated by central Canada. Smart people feel that the media is geared toward dumb people.

Just because many people are highly critical of the media doesn't mean they don't believe in a free press, and it doesn't make them hypocrites.

rude

You should talk.

pessimistic

As a group, Albertans are the most confident and ambitious of Canadians.

hipocritical

Do you mean hypocritical? In regard to what?

Yup.  Sounds like Alberta.

Doesn't sound much like the Alberta I know.

-kimmy

[idealisttotheend]

I agree with Kimmy that TNs post generalized far too much about "Albertans." I would like to take issue with one point though.

To paraphrase Voltaire, I disagree with what the media says, but I will defend the media's right to say it.

You may, but the Alberta government doesn't. Media that reports things unfriendly to the government get labeled "unbalanced" and are frozen out of interviews with government members and any other sort of access to government information or sources. Wild Rose Country, CBC's very good province wide discussion program cannot get any member of the government to appear because it regularily askes hard questions of the government. Media across the province know better than to question the government too harshly. CBC Calgary gets government ministers on their shows but the interviews are pro forma and only one or two "negative" questions are asked in each interview.

In pursuit of the one party state, the Alberta government also has a larger "public relations" staff than Ontario does. Every piece of media regarding the government is recorded. Members of the public relations staff have been know to participate in writing letters and calling call in shows without identifing themselves as government employees. The PR staff reports directly to Klien and are involved in major policy decisions. The days of seperation between the civil service and the party in power are long gone.

People complain about the "liberal media" in Alberta. The opposite is true. Besides the CBC everything is owned by either the SUN media chain or Southam/Can West (or their latest incarnation). Neither can be accused of overly liberal editorial positions.

[takeanumber]

Aw, you got me. I can't spell many words. (Rather, I repeatedly mispell key words.)

Alright.

I can tell you're new to Albertan politics, so let's go through this one step at a time, alright?

Drunkards:

It's well known, in Alberta, in spite of the media trying to bury it for two days then comming out with the story, that Klein, whilst drunk, told his chauffer to stop at a homeless shelter. He then proceded to stagger in, insult somebody, and then chucked a twenty or a fifty at him, kicked him, and told the homeless man to get a job.

A massive cheer could be heard from rural Alberta at the gesture. In fact, most of Calgary Southwest had a BBQ to commerate the occasion.

The issue in Alberta, believe it or not, wasn't about the act of chucking money and kicking somebody while they're down, but incredibly, about Klein's drinking.

To say that Ralphy should get a pat on the back for changing the subject, and then clean up his drinking, is really quite gauling. A Con might applaud it. What Klein does in his personal life is fine. What he does in public, to a homeless man, is public record.

Many rural Albertans still drink and drive.

So yes, by and large, Albertans agree with kicking somebody while they're done. It's proven by their response to the incident with Klein. Actions speak louder than words. What did Albertans do to Klein?

Applauded. And worse, they didn't even have the morals to feel sick to their stomachs. (Makes you wonder about just what kind of morals are being taught in Churches these days.)

Let's move onto Bullying.

At a committee meeting, one of the three or four Liberals, a lady, asked Klein to produce a receipt from one of his dozens of junkets. (Klein loves to travel on the public purse, to all sorts of places, like Paris, for instance. What he was doing there, nobody knows.)

So then, he said, "What, you don't believe me, you don't believe me, you don't believe me, you don't believe me, you don't believe me?"

It took the chair a good twenty seconds before he did anything about the bullying. In fact, some of the Cons were shocked, but by and large, they all agreed with his behaviour.

Most of the indigation, again, came from the 30% or so of Albertans who vote Liberal.

Most Cons didn't freak out. Again, actions speak louder than words.

When Klein freaked out at the media, what did Albertans do?

Nothing.

Plagerism:

Oh, here's another good flap. Klein stood up in the house, and he said something along the lines that the Liberal leader was an idiot (or he was spewing idiocy) and that he had just written a paper on Pinochet and that it was a good thing that Pinochet came along to depose the socialists.

And then he tabled that paper.

Well, that paper was a research paper the Premier had written that year at Athabasca university.

It turns out, the Premier wrote out a ton of stuff in a paragraph, and then wrote 'Internet' in brackets at the bottom.

Then provincial officials strong armed the presidents of Universities to say that it wasn't plagerism and then applauded the premier.

Well, I'm sorry, but that is plagerism. If you don't quote something properly in an academic paper, especially the way he did it, it's not acceptable.

So yes, he's a plagerist.

Did Albertans respond?

Nope.

So they must agree with it then.

Gettymandering:

The Premier before Klein was Getty. Getty redrew the electoral map so that the rural areas, which make up 45 percent of the population, get 55 percent of the seats. He also redrew some key consituencies to marginalize the Liberals.

This insures a PC government everytime.

Hence, instead of the word 'Gerrymander', we use the word 'Gettymander"

Make sense?

Direct Democracy:

Ralph Klein does whatever Ralph Klein wants.

If he wants to dismiss the democratically elected health boards, he does it.

No consultation.

The Media

The Herald and Sun editorial boards have their heads shoved so far up Kleins ass that it's a wonder that a video of it hasn't popped up on the internet.

The media is supposed to act to inform the public, not mislead it.

The media (CFCN, RDTV, CFRN, Global Calgary, Global Edmonton, the Sun, Herald) has an unwritten policy of not doing any investigative reporting into Alberta government waste or scandal.

They don't do their job. They, if anything, defend anything that the province does, while just implying a bit of skeptsism once inawhile.

There is no 'free' press in Alberta. It might as well be run by the province, but of course, that would be against the Charter, so to avoid a repeat of what Social Credit did, it's just easier to co-opt the media.

There's no such thing as conspiracy theories though, merely converging goals.

The only way to get 'exclusives' from the government is to play ball.

Pessimistic:

The entire Conservative movement, and the Alliance, and Reform, and SoCred before it, are all the epitomy of pessimism.

All wheened off the shrivelled tit of lady Alberta.

Hypocritical: (got it right)

Yes. I call it hypocritical to say "get the government out of my life" while simultaneously demanding more government in other people's lives.

Ie. They're against gun control and seat belts, but, most (a good majority) agree with police CCTV, or with enhanced liscensing.

If that doesn't sound like the Alberta you know, from somebody who hasn't heard of Gettymandering, you certainly don't know much about Alberta.

If you want to see the future of Canada under a Harper government, look into the Skoal-stained mouth of an Albertan.

It's black and filled with puss-filled cancerous legions.

[kimmy]

The Media

The Herald and Sun editorial boards have their heads shoved so far up Kleins ass that it's a wonder that a video of it hasn't popped up on the internet.

The media is supposed to act to inform the public, not mislead it.

The media (CFCN, RDTV, CFRN, Global Calgary, Global Edmonton, the Sun, Herald)  has an unwritten policy of not doing any investigative reporting into Alberta government waste or scandal.

They don't do their job.  They, if anything, defend anything that the province does, while just implying a bit of skeptsism once inawhile.

There is no 'free' press in Alberta.  It might as well be run by the province, but of course, that would be against the Charter, so to avoid a repeat of what Social Credit did, it's just easier to co-opt the media.

There's no such thing as conspiracy theories though, merely converging goals.

The only way to get 'exclusives' from the government is to play ball.

You've taken what would have been a good message about media manipulation, and completely trashed it with trolling remarks trying to link Klein's personality with Albertans as a group.

Many rural Albertans still drink and drive.

Many rural Canadians still drink and drive. I think you'll find Saskatchewan is Canada's perennial leader in drunk driving statistics, although I could be mistaken.

Also, if you're accusing Klein of drunk driving, I think you've got him confused with the premier of the province to the left of us.

Most of the indigation, again, came from the 30% or so of Albertans who vote Liberal. 

Most Cons didn't freak out.  Again, actions speak louder than words. 

Maybe most people just accept that partisan politics is a confrontational business.

So yes, he's a plagerist.

Did Albertans respond?

Nope.

So they must agree with it then.

Oh, I see. Kind of like, the Liberals were caught at money laundering and fraud, and Ontario voters continue to support them, so Ontarians must support money laundering and fraud? Yes, this is solid logic...

Hence, instead of the word 'Gerrymander', we use the word 'Gettymander"

Make sense?

I did google for Gettymander and Gettymandering, and got zero hits. So when you say "we" use the term, I take it you mean the "royal we"?

I think that if you look at any jurisdiction in Canada you'll find disproportionate representation of rural voters.

Pessimistic:

The entire Conservative movement, and the Alliance, and Reform, and SoCred before it, are all the epitomy of pessimism.

That's an opinion. Personally, I find the NDP philosophy is pessimistic: only government intervention can prevent people from ruining everything.

All wheened off the shrivelled tit of lady Alberta.

I just have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

Yes.  I call it hypocritical to say "get the government out of my life" while simultaneously demanding more government in other people's lives.

Ie.  They're against gun control and seat belts, but, most (a good majority) agree with police CCTV, or with enhanced liscensing.

I don't see how it's hypocritical to oppose new laws while believing that our law enforcement ought to have the tools they need to enforce existing laws.

If you want to see the future of Canada under a Harper government, look into the Skoal-stained mouth of an Albertan.

And you just couldn't finish off without one last troll. In what part of the province do you see all this Skoal being chewed?

-kimmy

[idealisttotheend]

Meh, who needs sleep.

Gerrymander is a fairly common term in poli sci circles (I'm told). Helps if you spell it right though.

political dictionary

gerrymander (verb, transitive) to divide voting districts so that they give an advantage to one political party over another. The word was coined after an 1812 election in Massachusetts, when Governor Elbridge Gerry was accused of rigging the vote by creating an electoral district favourable to his party. On a map, the controversial district was in the shape of a salamander. A painter named Gilbert Stuart is credited with first noting the peculiar shape. A newspaper satirist in 1813 is said to have combined the governor's name and the amphibian into the phrase "gerrymander." Note: the governor pronounced his name "GARY," and not "JERRY," but modern usage has the word "gerrymander" pronounced "jerrymander."

[takeanumber]

Gettymander is the Albertan term for Gerrymander.

Alberta is the largest market for 'smokeless' tobacco in the world. (I knew somebody who started it at age 14. Died of mouth cancer at 20. I see a lot of Skoal chewed, thank you.)

Actions speak louder than words. The fact that Ontario punished the Liberals without throwing them out for a set of equally illiberal anti-human rights bastards, shows a fair amount of intelligence. They could have returned the Libs to a majority government, and chose not to.

Now when you compare that to what a majority of Albertans do when Klein does similar (or worse) things, well, who's dumber? The people of Alberta for always cheering on the Premier's behaviour or the people of Ontario for voting Liberal?

Clearly, not all Albertans are evil. A full 30 percent vote liberal and another 15 percent would vote against the PC's if there was something else to vote for.

But, I must say, a majority of Albertans, the people who support that anti-semetic teacher in central Alberta, the Wiebo's, the Ramsey's, the people who support Ramsey (who's soft on Child abuse again? Martin, oh gosh, I coulda swon it was Harper for standing by Ramsey for so long), and not to mention that a lot of Albertans supported eugenics and the residential school system. (Hitler wanted a similar system in place for the Ukraine, and actually did implement the Albertan eugenic system). Well then, you got one seriously sick society.

Attitudes towards the homeless, people with disabilities, and worse of all, the general disdain for social mobility, are all features of the Albertan culture that actually angers me.

Now what do I do about it?

I post here on these boards.

I write a lot of satire.

And I do a few other things politically to get things to change.

You know, the problem isn't Klein inasmuch as the problem is with Alberta. Klein is a direct reflection of Alberta society, and that's probably the saddest aspect of all.

[caesar]

Quote: Kimmy: "so, if you're accusing Klein of drunk driving, I think you've got him confused with the premier of the province to the left of us. "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two peas in a pod; both have had drinking problems.

Both right wing politicians that have the support of the Can West media monopolizing of news.

In BC, with no official opposition; this seriously prevents us from being informed of the goverrnments intentions and action until it is too late.

[Big Blue Machine]

I think we need more drinking politicans like Klien.

[takeanumber]

He'd never win in any other province.

He's a reflection of Alberta.

[Big Blue Machine]

He's a good guy

[takeanumber]

Only somebody who agrees with the policies of Klein would say so.

[Big Blue Machine]

He needed to do what needed to be done

[takeanumber]

Denial of compensation to eugenics victims and threatening to use the notwithstanding clause to shut prevent any compensation.

Yup.

He certainly does what needs to be done.

[Big Blue Machine]

He got alberta debt-free.