blueblood Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 No, credit expansion is what did that. And since that credit expansion is backed by the providers of goods and the services in the economy and not any real property inside the banks "vault" the usury we are charged is unwarranted. Its like me collecting interest for loaning somebody elses stuff. The problem is that if they dont extricate themselves from this system then it will literally own them forever. If extricate themselves from the system, they are debt free but will have no more credit, and that will force them to build an economy that doesnt rely on constant credit. Spending will have to be based on revenue. And THAT is why these international bankers are so desperate for Greece to tow the line, and willing to cut a deal in order to keep Greece in the system. If Greece left, and after a few years of turmoil was able to establish a sustainable economy based on a real value currency system, then that would put into jeopardy the ability of international bankers to lord over our economies and extract gigantic sums of money for doing very little of value. Argentina defaulted and the bankers ability wasn't compromised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Argentina defaulted and the bankers ability wasn't compromised. ...and to round out the historical list: England (three defaults before 1600) France (eight between 1558 and 1788) China (1929 and 1939) Nigeria (5 times since 1960) Russia (1998) Argentina (2001) Didn't scare those big bad "international bankers" one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Greece approves referendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Greece approves referendum Agreed...they don't call it "Greek style" for nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Greece approves referendum Cite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/01/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2 NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- New fears about the fate of the European rescue plan reverberated through stock markets in the United States and around the world Tuesday. Following European markets, U.S. stocks ended sharply lower across the board. Bank stocks were hit especially hard. What was that you guys were saying? Banks arent threatened or worried at all huh? Bank stocks were hit especially hard in Tuesday's sell-off, with shares of Morgan Stanley (MS, Fortune 500) and Citigroup (C, Fortune 500) shares off nearly 8%. Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500), JP Morgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) and Goldman Sachs (GS, Fortune 500) were down more than 5%. Oh look...GOLDMAN SACHS! Where have I seen them involved in the Greek debt crisis before? Oh ya! Goldman Sachs Group Inc. managed $15 billion of bond sales for Greece after arranging a currency swap that allowed the government to hide the extent of its deficit. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8wj2A4RttMQ Goldman Sachs are the ones who set up currency swaps to hide its deficit from global bond investors. Id LOVE to know what position GS traders are taking privately now on greek debt. My guess is the institutions trying to push "rescue credit" on Greece will probably be shortselling Greek debt out the back door while theyre peddling more loans to greece out of the front door. . Thats exactly what Goldman Sachs during the financial crisis. Edited November 2, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 What was that you guys were saying? Banks arent threatened or worried at all huh? That's right...I will repeat...Big Bad Bogeyman International Bankers are not any more scared that with previous defaults. Funny how they are still around, eh? As for today's stock market drop, I just reinvested last week's profits. I will make lots of money without doing any work at all. Oh, the humanity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/01/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2 What was that you guys were saying? Banks arent threatened or worried at all huh? Oh look...GOLDMAN SACHS! Where have I seen them involved in the Greek debt crisis before? Oh ya! http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8wj2A4RttMQ Goldman Sachs are the ones who set up currency swaps to hide its deficit from global bond investors. Id LOVE to know what position GS traders are taking privately now on greek debt. My guess is the institutions trying to push "rescue credit" on Greece will probably be shortselling Greek debt out the back door while theyre peddling more loans to greece out of the front door. . Thats exactly what Goldman Sachs during the financial crisis. Yes, gs is going to make sooo much money off of hedging it's losses.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 That's right...I will repeat...Big Bad Bogeyman International Bankers are not any more scared that with previous defaults. Funny how they are still around, eh? As for today's stock market drop, I just reinvested last week's profits. I will make lots of money without doing any work at all. Oh, the humanity! Yup I know! Its all going great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yup I know! Its all going great. Yes..."usury" is a lot more fun than "social credit". Besides, goats and pigs don't fit in my wallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yes, gs is going to make sooo much money off of hedging it's losses.... No familiar with shortselling? You can make money betting in either direction. And according to GS they dont own any greek debt. So I fail to see how shortselling greek debt would be considered a hedge against losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yes..."usury" is a lot more fun than "social credit". Besides, goats and pigs don't fit in my wallet. Thats exactly what fills your wallet. Modern currency is backed by the ability of participants in the market to produce goods and services. If theres no goats and pigs and other products for you to purchase the stuff in your wallet is just paper. Youre still stuck in the thinking that banks have something to do with the value of that money, or that they are "lending" it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 No familiar with shortselling? You can make money betting in either direction. And according to GS they dont own any greek debt. So I fail to see how shortselling greek debt would be considered a hedge against losses. You make money on the fundamentals, why would gs be going long on greece and try shorting out the backdoor? They wouldn't make anything. It's going to be pretty hard finding investors in Greece when current bond holders have to take a 50% haircut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) why would gs be going long on greece and try shorting out the backdoor? Its impossible to know that without seeing what their positions really are. Edited November 2, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 ...Its going to be pretty hard finding people to invest in ANYTHING when the financial sector routinely engages in fraud, and hides risk from investors. Oh really...just watch us. And yes, a carpenter or home builder does buy construction insurance in the way of a builder risk policy. There are more ways to make money without doing any work than you can count. For shame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Oh really...just watch us. And yes, a carpenter or home builder does buy construction insurance in the way of a builder risk policy. There are more ways to make money without doing any work than you can count. For shame! Yeah Iv been watching how eager people are to invest. The percentage of Americans who said they have a great deal of confidence in financial institutions fell to 23% in 2010, from 42% in 2007, Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers of the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School found in an analysis of global polling data from the Gallup Organization. The Gallup surveys started in 1973, and confidence in the financial sector is lower than in any previous survey period. I guess all that investment would explain your booming housing market, and super low unemployment rates right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yeah Iv been watching how eager people are to invest. I guess all that investment would explain your booming housing market, and super low unemployment rates right? It helps explain the ridiculous growth in Asia and Latin America. Getting solid returns too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) Yeah Iv been watching how eager people are to invest. There are lots of ways to invest....people are not putting their money in a mattress. Americans still own and invest in many financial instruments. The time to invest is when the scared and meek won't. We've already been over how many Americans still own stocks. I guess all that investment would explain your booming housing market, and super low unemployment rates right? Sure does....lots of bargains out there right now. Edited November 2, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 i think the world leaders will be very pissed off at Greeces decision to hold a referendum Yeah voters can be very inconvenient. The kleptocratic government of Greece aggrandized itself with the borrowing and now expects its ordinary citizens to pay; bah humbug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Didnt they pay it all back? Last I heard the government wasn't defaulting and Iceland would pay back all its debts and the Iceland ... ish, Icelanders? were supper pissed about it because they wanted to tell the International banks to go fuck off but the government paid it all back. You mean the government ministers in Iceland dipped into their own pockets rather than those of constituents; how nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Not everyone thinks it is a bad idea. Mark Carney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Cite! its all over the news... but in case you live in a cave http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15549352 Greece's cabinet has given unanimous backing to a controversial plan by PM George Papandreou to hold a referendum on a EU debt rescue package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 im more concerned about this http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/greece-reshuffles-military-chief-amid-crisis-20111102-1muen.html Greece on Tuesday reshuffled its military chiefs amid a political crisis that could see a government downfall following a controversial decision to put an EU debt rescue deal to a referendum. A state security council under Prime Minister George Papandreou replaced the heads of the general staff, the army, navy and airforce, and discharged a dozen army and navy officers, the defence ministry said in a statement. A defence ministry source told AFP that the reshuffle was previously scheduled and not linked to political developments. But opposition parties attacked the government over the move. "You're finished, hands off the armed forces," said conservative New Democracy shadow defence minister Margaritis Tzimas. "There is no government in the country, one by one its lawmakers are jumping ship," Tzimas said, calling the reshuffle "undemocratic". The other parties also questioned the government's motives. "This heightens the climate of uncertainty and concern among public opinion," said the Democratic Left party. Papandreou's shock announcement for a referendum early next year and a confidence vote on Friday sparked calls for early elections and a defection, leaving the government with just 152 deputies in the 300-seat parliament. The hard-fought deal agreed last Thursday after marathon talks in Brussels included an agreement to write off 100 billion euros ($A132.06 billion) ($137 billion) of debt owed by Greece. With leaders of the world's 20 biggest economies getting ready for a summit in Cannes focused on the economic crisis, Papandreou's unexpected move triggered fears that the EU's rescue efforts could rapidly unravel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) Papandreou sp should pull a Harper and pro rogue parliament (if they can) thus putting off the vote of no confidence of his government friday this way the referendum will happen or take control of the country via military...option A sounds better to me though Edited November 2, 2011 by olp1fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple_leafs182 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 You are right Dre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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