CBC's attack on Scouts Canada

[scouterjim]

As a long time member of Scouts Canada, I object to the way we were portrayed recently on Fifth Estate. The article made it seem that we are all pedophiles,and SC is hiding that fact. They used an incident from 40 years ago to illustrate their claim. Scouts Canada has some of the most stringent requirements for becoming a leader. We go to extra lengths to protect the youth. Police record checks, fingerprints, references and an interview are all required. CBC claimed SC has a "secret file" on pedophiles who have infiltrated (or tried to) our membership. We have a "Two deep rule". No leader is EVER alone with any youth except their own child coming to and from meetings. There is NO file, but CBC attacked our CEO for not turning this imaginary file over to them. Sadly, yes, there have been creeps who snuck in, and sadly there have been incidents of molestation. These scumbags are immediately suspended, reported to the police, and parents are notified. All this was said to CBC, but they would not accept it. ALL youth organizations attract these scumbags, even the blessed and sacred hockey, but it seems the CBC is after only Scouts Canada. I believe that they are so low in the ratings, they have instituted a witch hunt, and won't be happy until they destroy Scouts Canada.

[Shwa]

As a long time member of Scouts Canada, I object to the way we were portrayed recently on Fifth Estate. The article made it seem that we are all pedophiles,and SC is hiding that fact. They used an incident from 40 years ago to illustrate their claim. Scouts Canada has some of the most stringent requirements for becoming a leader. We go to extra lengths to protect the youth. Police record checks, fingerprints, references and an interview are all required. CBC claimed SC has a "secret file" on pedophiles who have infiltrated (or tried to) our membership. We have a "Two deep rule". No leader is EVER alone with any youth except their own child coming to and from meetings. There is NO file, but CBC attacked our CEO for not turning this imaginary file over to them. Sadly, yes, there have been creeps who snuck in, and sadly there have been incidents of molestation. These scumbags are immediately suspended, reported to the police, and parents are notified. All this was said to CBC, but they would not accept it. ALL youth organizations attract these scumbags, even the blessed and sacred hockey, but it seems the CBC is after only Scouts Canada. I believe that they are so low in the ratings, they have instituted a witch hunt, and won't be happy until they destroy Scouts Canada.

Links help scouterjim:

Scouts failed to stop sexual predator: CBC investigation

Investigating sexual abuse in Scouts Canada - the First Estate page

In a co-investigation with the Los Angeles Times, the fifth estate looks at Scouts Canada's controversial system for recording the names of pedophiles who have infiltrated its ranks and been removed the organization. It was known as the Confidential List.

Scouting sex abuse cases

I think the problem they illustrate is more historical than current although the organization of the Boy Scouts no doubt took a hit, just like Catholic Church has over their diddling priests.

In this day however, I think most rational people recognize the controls that the Boy Scouts - like most other youth oriented organizations - have put in place and wouldn't worry too much about their kids being a cub or scout. I certainly wouldn't.

[scouterjim]

Unfortunately, not everybody thinks as you do. Infact, I have, since Friday, been called a "pedophile', and other wonderful names by adults. The attack agaisnt SC by the CBC was unwarrented. When their questions were answered, they wouldn't stop repeating the same question. "Where is the file?" was asked five times. Five times they were told, "There is NO file.", to which they said, "Yes there is! Where is the file?" When our CEO declined to answer the question anymore, and walked away from the reporter, it was clamed she "was running away with something to hide." As I said, yes, in the past there were cases of abuse. We acknowledge this. But I truly believe that CBC was using cheap, yellow journalism to prop up their sagging ratings. I asked in an e-mail to CBC why they didn't look into abuse allegations in minor hockey, and was replied with, "Hockey is a Canadian institution. CBC does not wish to interfere in minor hockey." Wonderful.

[ToadBrother]

As a long time member of Scouts Canada, I object to the way we were portrayed recently on Fifth Estate. The article made it seem that we are all pedophiles,and SC is hiding that fact. They used an incident from 40 years ago to illustrate their claim. Scouts Canada has some of the most stringent requirements for becoming a leader. We go to extra lengths to protect the youth. Police record checks, fingerprints, references and an interview are all required. CBC claimed SC has a "secret file" on pedophiles who have infiltrated (or tried to) our membership. We have a "Two deep rule". No leader is EVER alone with any youth except their own child coming to and from meetings. There is NO file, but CBC attacked our CEO for not turning this imaginary file over to them. Sadly, yes, there have been creeps who snuck in, and sadly there have been incidents of molestation. These scumbags are immediately suspended, reported to the police, and parents are notified. All this was said to CBC, but they would not accept it. ALL youth organizations attract these scumbags, even the blessed and sacred hockey, but it seems the CBC is after only Scouts Canada. I believe that they are so low in the ratings, they have instituted a witch hunt, and won't be happy until they destroy Scouts Canada.

The Catholic Church tried this particular tact, and look how it worked for them.

[charter.rights]

While I wasn't a leader, I spent a lot of time at meetings and camps with my 2 youngest in Scouts, one boy and one girl. The leaders were caring and respectful at all times. One leader was removed for putting his hands on one of the more difficult boys and was promptly dismissed.

However, I object to Scouts Canada quietly dismissing pedophiles and paying off the parents of the abused. By right these criminals should have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and their names made public. What Scouts fails to acknowledge is that scouting was not the only organization these types of people were involved in. Pedophiles within the organization were known to have embedded themselves where ever they could gain access to children.

For me the CBC expose does reveal one more bit of information that wasn't evident in their documentary. Back when my kids belonged to the local organization there was a sudden increase in the fees for enrollment and when I questioned it back in the 1990's I was told that Scout Canada's insurance rates had risen drastically. No wonder now.

@ScouterJim.

I don't question your commitment to the scouting movement. My brother-in-law is still a leader as well and he has that same level of dedication I saw in the many leaders I encountered over the years. However,I believe it is time to disband the organization - not just for this one exposure either. Over the years I have witnessed how the Scouts Canada national administration has become bloated and bureaucratic, demanding and expensive. As a volunteer fire fighter our association used to donate directly to the local Beaver, Cubs and Scout troops on a regular basis. Suddenly the stream changed, where the National Office wanted the money to flow through them, and then they would return a portion that they felt was appropriate (they were essentially stealing charity donations). After about 7 years of diligent support, that officially stopped our donations (although we continued to donate to camps or to provide equipment in non-cash ways).

So it is time to stop ALL the corruption and bureaucracy in Scouts Canada. I'm sure another start up similar to Scouts could be created that you could participate in. Certainly we need that kind of mentor-ship in society but not at the expense of provide pedophiles and self-aggrandized individuals access to our children.

Edited October 26, 2011 by charter.rights

[charter.rights]

Unfortunately, not everybody thinks as you do. Infact, I have, since Friday, been called a "pedophile', and other wonderful names by adults. The attack agaisnt SC by the CBC was unwarrented. When their questions were answered, they wouldn't stop repeating the same question. "Where is the file?" was asked five times. Five times they were told, "There is NO file.", to which they said, "Yes there is! Where is the file?" When our CEO declined to answer the question anymore, and walked away from the reporter, it was clamed she "was running away with something to hide." As I said, yes, in the past there were cases of abuse. We acknowledge this. But I truly believe that CBC was using cheap, yellow journalism to prop up their sagging ratings. I asked in an e-mail to CBC why they didn't look into abuse allegations in minor hockey, and was replied with, "Hockey is a Canadian institution. CBC does not wish to interfere in minor hockey." Wonderful.

One devil at a time.

[scouterjim]

While I wasn't a leader, I spent a lot of time at meetings and camps with my 2 youngest in Scouts, one boy and one girl. The leaders were caring and respectful at all times. One leader was removed for putting his hands on one of the more difficult boys and was promptly dismissed.

However, I object to Scouts Canada quietly dismissing pedophiles and paying off the parents of the abused. By right these criminals should have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and their names made public. What Scouts fails to acknowledge is that scouting was not the only organization these types of people were involved in. Pedophiles within the organization were known to have embedded themselves where ever they could gain access to children.

For me the CBC expose does reveal one more bit of information that wasn't evident in their documentary. Back when my kids belonged to the local organization there was a sudden increase in the fees for enrollment and when I questioned it back in the 1990's I was told that Scout Canada's insurance rates had risen drastically. No wonder now.

@ScouterJim.

I don't question your commitment to the scouting movement. My brother-in-law is still a leader as well and he has that same level of dedication I saw in the many leaders I encountered over the years. However,I believe it is time to disband the organization - not just for this one exposure either. Over the years I have witnessed how the Scouts Canada national administration has become bloated and bureaucratic, demanding and expensive. As a volunteer fire fighter our association used to donate directly to the local Beaver, Cubs and Scout troops on a regular basis. Suddenly the stream changed, where the National Office wanted the money to flow through them, and then they would return a portion that they felt was appropriate (they were essentially stealing charity donations). After about 7 years of diligent support, that officially stopped our donations (although we continued to donate to camps or to provide equipment in non-cash ways).

So it is time to stop ALL the corruption and bureaucracy in Scouts Canada. I'm sure another start up similar to Scouts could be created that you could participate in. Certainly we need that kind of mentor-ship in society but not at the expense of provide pedophiles and self-aggrandized individuals access to our children.

So, you feel that depriving the youth of Scouts is going to be a good thing? In every case I know of, any money donated to a group was given over by National to the tune of 100%. To my knowledge, they have never skimmed anything from donations.

[charter.rights]

So, you feel that depriving the youth of Scouts is going to be a good thing? In every case I know of, any money donated to a group was given over by National to the tune of 100%. To my knowledge, they have never skimmed anything from donations.

They were only returning 60% in our district.

Putting future young men and women into an organization that is tainted by scandal and corruption would not set a very good example. I know of a number of other scouting type groups that have managed to maintain a strictly voluntary organization. Baden Powell would be ashamed if he knew what was going on today....

Keep in mind I am a scout to this day and take my oaths and responsibilities seriously. However, there is no place for these kinds of dishonour to the scouting movement. It would be much better if we just moved on.

BTW Do you remember the Red Cross?

[scouterjim]

They were only returning 60% in our district.

Putting future young men and women into an organization that is tainted by scandal and corruption would not set a very good example. I know of a number of other scouting type groups that have managed to maintain a strictly voluntary organization. Baden Powell would be ashamed if he knew what was going on today....

Keep in mind I am a scout to this day and take my oaths and responsibilities seriously. However, there is no place for these kinds of dishonour to the scouting movement. It would be much better if we just moved on.

BTW Do you remember the Red Cross?

Other scouting type groups? The BPSA? Bunch of disgruntled, angry Scouters who left Scouts Canada because they couldn't do things the way they wanted, whether it endangered the youth or not?

[charter.rights]

Other scouting type groups? The BPSA? Bunch of disgruntled, angry Scouters who left Scouts Canada because they couldn't do things the way they wanted, whether it endangered the youth or not?

You mean they challenged the power structure within Scouts Canada......what a surprise. I bet you are executive, aren't you....

And from my recollection, they dared to question and object to the outrageous increase in fees as one of their founding principles.

Edited October 26, 2011 by charter.rights

[fellowtraveller]

I think the problem they illustrate is more historical than current although the organization of the Boy Scouts no doubt took a hit, just like Catholic Church has over their diddling priests.

It is a grotesque insult to the Scouts to compare isolated incidents of pedophilia and their reaction to same to the systemic evil within the Catholic Church.

[guyser]

It is a grotesque insult to the Scouts to compare isolated incidents of pedophilia and their reaction to same to the systemic evil within the Catholic Church.

80 documented cases is certainly grotesque , but the comparison is apt it would seem.

[eyeball]

When it comes to Catholicism I think diddling with the mind in and of itself of young kids, is really only slightly less evil than diddling with their bodies too. That said, they always try to seduce their minds first.

[ToadBrother]

It is a grotesque insult to the Scouts to compare isolated incidents of pedophilia and their reaction to same to the systemic evil within the Catholic Church.

Oh look, someone trod upon a sacred cow with another sacred cow.

[scouterjim]

You mean they challenged the power structure within Scouts Canada......what a surprise. I bet you are executive, aren't you....

And from my recollection, they dared to question and object to the outrageous increase in fees as one of their founding principles.

No, I'm not an executive. I am just a leader. However I HAVE seen the type the BPSA enlists. Leaders who put an entire Cub Pack at risk, and were called on it, so they quit because they didn't think the risk warrented their being called for it. They went to the BPSA who are so anxious for leaders they would take them.

[ToadBrother]

No, I'm not an executive. I am just a leader. However I HAVE seen the type the BPSA enlists. Leaders who put an entire Cub Pack at risk, and were called on it, so they quit because they didn't think the risk warrented their being called for it. They went to the BPSA who are so anxious for leaders they would take them.

Sort of like the Judean Peoples Front, bloody splitters.

[sharkman]

They were only returning 60% in our district.

Putting future young men and women into an organization that is tainted by scandal and corruption would not set a very good example. I know of a number of other scouting type groups that have managed to maintain a strictly voluntary organization. Baden Powell would be ashamed if he knew what was going on today....

Keep in mind I am a scout to this day and take my oaths and responsibilities seriously. However, there is no place for these kinds of dishonour to the scouting movement. It would be much better if we just moved on.

BTW Do you remember the Red Cross?

A tainted organization? Nothing personal, but that's hogwash. The school system is tainted. Oranized sports, clubs, daycare, the military, all tainted by scandal or corruption at one time or another. Just about any vocation, any university or any government too. Keeping one's children away from organizations tainted with scandal would condemn the kids to staying home 24/7...whoops, yet another place of scandal.

The CBC picks and chooses topics according to their badly distorted world view. Nothing new here.

[charter.rights]

No, I'm not an executive. I am just a leader. However I HAVE seen the type the BPSA enlists. Leaders who put an entire Cub Pack at risk, and were called on it, so they quit because they didn't think the risk warrented their being called for it. They went to the BPSA who are so anxious for leaders they would take them.

And how do you think pedophiles got into Scouts?

In many districts here in Ontario there are no enough leaders to keep Cub and Scout meetings going. They'll take anyone that can pass a police check.

[scouterjim]

And how do you think pedophiles got into Scouts?

In many districts here in Ontario there are no enough leaders to keep Cub and Scout meetings going. They'll take anyone that can pass a police check.

We stringently watch each other. It is second nature with long time Scouters. The case with the Scouters who went to the BPSA wasn't about pedophiles. It was putting the youth in physical danger that could have ended in serious physical harm, or even death. They ignored the rules and went ahead with what they were doing. One of their leaders was suspended, so the others quit. In my opinion, if the BPSA is willing to take them on, they can have them. The safety of the youth is PARAMOUNT!

[Spire]

We stringently watch each other. It is second nature with long time Scouters. The case with the Scouters who went to the BPSA wasn't about pedophiles. It was putting the youth in physical danger that could have ended in serious physical harm, or even death. They ignored the rules and went ahead with what they were doing. One of their leaders was suspended, so the others quit. In my opinion, if the BPSA is willing to take them on, they can have them. The safety of the youth is PARAMOUNT!

Ok guys, I'm BPSA and what I have to say is that like in any association, a minority always makes the whole group looks bad. We are all in the same boat with that CBC created "scandal" about something that happened when most of the current leaders were not even born. Let's stick together and forget that BPSA / Scout Canada / ASC feud.

BTW, I spoke with a high ranked official in our association 2 weeks ago about another issue related to the reforms hapenning in the the french "Association des Scouts du Canada" and the fact that a lot of leaders in that organisation are not happy with them and are thinking about making the switch. His answer is that we are not willing to take anyone that is leaving because he is "angry" at them without any other reasons. The feeling that I have is that we needs to build something and instead of competing against each other, all scouts in Canada needs to stick together and accepts each other without criticizing people with differents opinions.

EDIT: If I have only one hope, it is that the current crisis will help building bridges between associations as I think that we all have something to learn from each others.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Spire

[scouterjim]

Ok guys, I'm BPSA and what I have to say is that like in any association, a minority always makes the whole group looks bad. We are all in the same boat with that CBC created "scandal" about something that happened when most of the current leaders were not even born. Let's stick together and forget that BPSA / Scout Canada / ASC feud.

BTW, I spoke with a high ranked official in our association 2 weeks ago about another issue related to the reforms hapenning in the the french "Association des Scouts du Canada" and the fact that a lot of leaders in that organisation are not happy with them and are thinking about making the switch. His answer is that we are not willing to take anyone that is leaving because he is "angry" at them without any other reasons. The feeling that I have is that we needs to build something and instead of competing against each other, all scouts in Canada needs to stick together and accepts each other without criticizing people with differents opinions.

EDIT: If I have only one hope, it is that the current crisis will help building bridges between associations as I think that we all have something to learn from each others.

BPSA? So, you are not with Scouting then.

[cybercoma]

There is but one issue in this entire thing that I find disgusting on the part of Scouts Canada. Why did they make victims sign a contract agreeing to remain silent about the abuse in their settlements? This should never under any circumstances be the case when there is a situation involving the criminal code. These cases aren't The Crown Versus because they're laws against the individual, but they're crimes against society, settlement or not. Moreover, it kept others from finding out that their children may have been victimized, but have been otherwise unable to talk about it. I'm not going to go into any great depth about it, but I find the act of paying victims "hush" money to be reprehensible whether it's Scouts Canada or anybody else.

[scouterjim]

There is but one issue in this entire thing that I find disgusting on the part of Scouts Canada. Why did they make victims sign a contract agreeing to remain silent about the abuse in their settlements? This should never under any circumstances be the case when there is a situation involving the criminal code. These cases aren't The Crown Versus because they're laws against the individual, but they're crimes against society, settlement or not. Moreover, it kept others from finding out that their children may have been victimized, but have been otherwise unable to talk about it. I'm not going to go into any great depth about it, but I find the act of paying victims "hush" money to be reprehensible whether it's Scouts Canada or anybody else.

This happens in many cases, not just with SC. Businesses do it as well. The British Columbia Teachers Federation has for years "policed themselves" by settling cases out of court, and with confidentiality agreements.

[cybercoma]

This happens in many cases, not just with SC. Businesses do it as well. The British Columbia Teachers Federation has for years "policed themselves" by settling cases out of court, and with confidentiality agreements.

Yeah. And I find it just as awful when any other organization does it too. It's disgusting and should be against the law.

[cybercoma]

It's nothing personal against you or any individual involved with scouts. I just feel these confidentiality agreements in the case of sexual abuse victims is morally reprehensible. It's completely unethical regardless of who is drafting them. Scouts, nevertheless, is legally allowed to do this and was probably advised by lawyers to do so in order to protect its image. Meanwhile, other victims suffer in silence because a community of victims is not allowed to publically offer their support. It really pisses me off.