The conservative holy grail will soon be gone!

[cybercoma]

Why? It isn't the government's information to share.

Yes it is. They've collected it and can do what they want with it, so long as it's not made public. Giving it to another government agency, so long as it remains confidential, is fine. If the provinces setup their own databases, then they'll have to re-collect all of the data. Doesn't that strike you as a massive waste of money that the Conservatives could prevent if they wanted to? Instead, they are so ideologically opposed to the idea that they won't even allow the provinces to use the information, if they want to that is.

[Smallc]

Yes it is. They've collected it and can do what they want with it, so long as it's not made public. Giving it to another government agency, so long as it remains confidential, is fine.

i don't believe that's correct. The Crown in Right of Canada is not the same as the Crown in Right of Quebec.

[cybercoma]

i don't believe that's correct. The Crown in Right of Canada is not the same as the Crown in Right of Quebec.

We'll have to disagree. I believe we spent all this money to collect the information and see it as a shame that it will go through the paper-shredder, when it could save the provinces (ultimately the taxpayers) quite a bit of money if it could be re-used at the provincial level. Again, that's all assuming the provinces want to setup their own LGRs. They might not. I don't know the legality of them passing along the info, but that's beside the point for my argument.

[Smallc]

We'll have to disagree. I believe we spent all this money to collect the information and see it as a shame that it will go through the paper-shredder, when it could save the provinces (ultimately the taxpayers) quite a bit of money if it could be re-used at the provincial level.

But should it be? I don't think it should, and I would consider that an extreme invasion of privacy. It isn't at all beside the point.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Smallc

[ToadBrother]

Whether I agree or disagree with the existence of the registry aside (it really doesn't matter since it's going to go), I find it incredibly stupid that the Conservatives will not allow provinces to use the information to setup their own data sets. You can't in one breath complain about how it's a waste of federal dollars, then turn around and waste them even further by just flushing all of the information down the toilet. If Quebec or Ontario want to setup their own LGR, they should be able to use the info from this one to set those up.

If the point is to well and truly destroy the registry, the last thing you would want to do is give it to the Provinces. You want to make any attempt on their part to set up any kind of provincial registry as onerous as possible, and torching that data does just that. The objective here is to kill the registry, not just give it to someone else to manage.

[cybercoma]

If the point is to well and truly destroy the registry, the last thing you would want to do is give it to the Provinces. You want to make any attempt on their part to set up any kind of provincial registry as onerous as possible, and torching that data does just that. The objective here is to kill the registry, not just give it to someone else to manage.

No. The point is that the federal governmenet sees it as a waste of money, so they no longer want to finance it. If the provinces choose to do so, throwing out all of that information is a waste.

Smallc, I don't at all see how it's an invasion of privacy. The information is not being made public. The police forces always had access to it and the provinces/municipalities (municipalities don't theoretically have jurisidiction over anything) are responsible for the cops. So the provinces already had access to it via the police.

[Smallc]

No. The point is that the federal governmenet sees it as a waste of money, so they no longer want to finance it.

No, that isn't the primary reason for eliminating it...and yes, transferring information between levels of government about private property could very well be a breach of privacy.

[ToadBrother]

No. The point is that the federal governmenet sees it as a waste of money, so they no longer want to finance it. If the provinces choose to do so, throwing out all of that information is a waste.

The Tories object to it on more than just financial grounds. They are ideologically opposed to it, so why would they let anyone else rebuild it easily?

They didn't scrap it because of the money, they scrapped it because they hate the registry.

[WWWTT]

I believe I had heard Harper say something along the lines that the provinces are free to set up their own gun registry after the feds eliminate this one.(within the last couple of weeks)

I immediately thought he is just being a typical conservative hypocrit because I do not believe he would have said anything like that if he hadn't felt that the gun registry has some kind of usefull value.

WWWTT

[Guest Derek L]

I think you've tipped over into fantasy. The Tories are willing to take a hit in Quebec (it's not like it will hurt much) and in some urban ridings (where their support is iffy anyways). But if you seriously think the entire notion of gun control as it is known is going out the window, then you haven't been paying attention to the game Harper's playing. The long gun registry buys him lots of political capital with his party but he's not going to completely abandon large chunks of the electorate simply to appease what I consider to be a minority of gun owners.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think any of that will happen, nor do I really think it should……..I’m happy with going back to pre-long -gun registry…….but many gun owners want more

[Guest Derek L]

Whether I agree or disagree with the existence of the registry aside (it really doesn't matter since it's going to go), I find it incredibly stupid that the Conservatives will not allow provinces to use the information to setup their own data sets. You can't in one breath complain about how it's a waste of federal dollars, then turn around and waste them even further by just flushing all of the information down the toilet. If Quebec or Ontario want to setup their own LGR, they should be able to use the info from this one to set those up.

Putting aside the major debate on the registry, the feds handing over their info to the provinces is next to useless……The day after the current registry is scrapped, there will be thousands (if not tens of thousands) of firearms changing hands across the country…….So let`s say Ontario sets up their own…….If I (In BC)purchase a rifle online from a store in Ontario, do I have to register it? How do you enforce a person from Ontario registering a rifle they bought in Manitoba?

[Guest Derek L]

I immediately thought he is just being a typical conservative hypocrit because I do not believe he would have said anything like that if he hadn't felt that the gun registry has some kind of usefull value.

WWWTT

Not being a hypocrite, it’s another value of the Conservatives……..not stepping onto Provincial rights…….If the majority of Quebecers want it, by all means, but you pay for it…

[WWWTT]

Not being a hypocrite, it’s another value of the Conservatives……..not stepping onto Provincial rights…….If the majority of Quebecers want it, by all means, but you pay for it…

Actually you would think something like firearms would be a federal responsibility,not provincial.

Suggesting the provinces to pick up the slack in my opinion is hypocritical,I believe Harper is worried about a negative backlash from voters if God forbid something bad happens after the registry is gone!

WWWTT

[Smallc]

Suggesting the provinces to pick up the slack in my opinion is hypocritical,I believe Harper is worried about a negative backlash from voters if God forbid something bad happens after the registry is gone!

You seem to be thinking that something bad will happen, when there's no evidence that something will, or even a reason to think that it will.

[WWWTT]

You seem to be thinking that something bad will happen, when there's no evidence that something will, or even a reason to think that it will.

Really?

In my quote I suggested that the PM is worried that something bad may happen.

And hey if nothing bad is ever going to happen then why have ambulances,fire departments,police,judges,crown attorneys,jails,etc,etc?

But hey do you have any evidence?

I'm going to use the exact same argument on you so you can see how hypocrital you sound buddy!

WWWTT

[Smallc]

[Guest Derek L]

Actually you would think something like firearms would be a federal responsibility,not provincial.

Suggesting the provinces to pick up the slack in my opinion is hypocritical,I believe Harper is worried about a negative backlash from voters if God forbid something bad happens after the registry is gone!

WWWTT

Well technically it is a federal reasonability, but it’s relied upon the provinces for enforcement.

As for the “next tragedy”, like when you hear a story about a tragic death involving street racing or predators praying on children online, most people are able to separate an isolated event from the norm…….No one is seriously calling on the banning of cars or Pcs……. Nor, if you heavily regulated cars or personal computers would you stop these crimes……….In turn, we rely on the majority of drivers and computer users to be law abiding citizens and when we do have these incidents, we address them on a case by case basis

[Handsome Rob]

Yes it is. They've collected it and can do what they want with it, so long as it's not made public. Giving it to another government agency, so long as it remains confidential, is fine. If the provinces setup their own databases, then they'll have to re-collect all of the data. Doesn't that strike you as a massive waste of money that the Conservatives could prevent if they wanted to? Instead, they are so ideologically opposed to the idea that they won't even allow the provinces to use the information, if they want to that is.

It's so chock full of errors and glue guns they'd probably have to spend another billion to clean it up and give it a semblance of usability.

Besides the fact that firearms owners would just make purchases in registry-less provinces, facilitated by sites like canadiangunnutz. Enough of them are registration weary that they would certainly go through these extents.

Let the bloody thing die.

[WWWTT]

Well technically it is a federal reasonability, but it’s relied upon the provinces for enforcement.

This is a false statement.Partialy

The RCMP are federal,OPP and QPP are provincial and then there are numerous city and municipal/county police departments across Canada.

And then the courts are funding from different levels of government,including at the municipal level.

WWWTT

[Guest Derek L]

This is a false statement.Partialy

The RCMP are federal,OPP and QPP are provincial and then there are numerous city and municipal/county police departments across Canada.

And then the courts are funding from different levels of government,including at the municipal level.

WWWTT

No, I’m fully right, The Firearms act falls under the Criminal Code of Canada…..The Provinces don’t enact their own criminal laws, only regulatory laws……

[Bonam]

You seem to be thinking that something bad will happen, when there's no evidence that something will, or even a reason to think that it will.

Inevitably, someone will be killed with a firearm sooner or later. Inevitably, the issue will be politicized. Inevitably, the NDP and Liberals will blame it on the Conservatives eliminating the registry, regardless of any of the facts in the case. It will play well with their base.

[eyeball]

Inevitably, someone will be killed with a firearm sooner or later. Inevitably, the issue will be politicized. Inevitably, the NDP and Liberals will blame it on the Conservatives eliminating the registry, regardless of any of the facts in the case. It will play well with their base.

Speaking of ideology, it'll probably be yet another Anders Breivik or Marc Lepine like rampage that triggers the next impetus for preventative action. With the knowledge that a gun registry is essentially useless the only obvious avenue will be real controls, like storage armories, GPS enabled trigger locks, transport permits etc.

[Guest Derek L]

Speaking of ideology, it'll probably be yet another Anders Breivik or Marc Lepine like rampage that triggers the next impetus for preventative action. With the knowledge that a gun registry is essentially useless the only obvious avenue will be real controls, like storage armories, GPS enabled trigger locks, transport permits etc.

There already is ATTs for restricted firearms………and the requirements for storage, trigger locks and safes, are quite extensive, though the Government allowed some wiggle room for law enfforcement to define what they feel is safe….

[eyeball]

There already is ATTs for restricted firearms………and the requirements for storage, trigger locks and safes, are quite extensive,

Okay. Now we just wait for the inevitable rampage that causes the public and government to roll all firearms into this regime.

It's only a matter of time.

[Guest Derek L]

Okay. Now we just wait for the inevitable rampage that causes the public and government to roll all firearms into this regime.

It's only a matter of time.

These current and the extension of those you propose are nothing but a false sense of security for the segment of the public that is afraid of legal firearms………If I went bonkers, and decided to “do in” myself and my family or to “make the voices stop by unloading in a shopping mall”, trigger locks, a safe and a requirement to have authorization to transport is likely not going to stop nor slow me down…………

As I’ve said, if there is evidence to suggest that legal gun owners are a plight on society, I’d suggest a more extensive licensing process than storage, registration and transportation regulations.