jbg Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 When you can brew guns in your bathtub the comparison between 1920's America alcohol laws and 2011 Canadian gun laws may have a sliver of validity.Not really. A good part of my family made significant money during Prohibition with Canadian imports. Guns are part of legitimate, rural, law abiding culture. The Government cannot erase that culture by fiat. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 Ok, that makes it simple then……..how does the gun registry prevent gun related crime?Well it would have convinced Mark Lapine not to engage in sudden jihad butcher the class full of students. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest Derek L Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 Well it would have convinced Mark Lapine not to engage in sudden jihad butcher the class full of students. Always found it kind of ironic, the Ruger Mini-14, the gun used by him (and in the Hobart Australia massacre and in Norway) haven’t been “banned”, and are unrestricted, and once the law changes, won’t have to be registered (My Mini-14 & Mini-30 are for now)……..Kind shows the “shotgun approach” taken by the anti-gun lobby…… Quote
Spire Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 the destruction of the data is a sad day, especially since it is consultes thousands of times each days across Canada. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 As a "new" hunter who is waiting for my PAL to be approved, I still don't see what the big deal is with the LGR. Think about all the other things we register, I'd love someone to explain what the big deal is, seriously. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Shakeyhands Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 Always found it kind of ironic, the Ruger Mini-14, the gun used by him (and in the Hobart Australia massacre and in Norway) haven’t been “banned”, and are unrestricted, and once the law changes, won’t have to be registered (My Mini-14 & Mini-30 are for now)……..Kind shows the “shotgun approach” taken by the anti-gun lobby…… A friend of mine has the Rancher model, great little rifle... tons of fun to shoot. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
eyeball Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 As a "new" hunter who is waiting for my PAL to be approved, I still don't see what the big deal is with the LGR. Think about all the other things we register, I'd love someone to explain what the big deal is, seriously. Getting elected on the Conservative premise that everyone else is big on Big Government and soft on crime. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Battletoads Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 Guns are part of legitimate, rural, law abiding culture. The Government cannot erase that culture by fiat. No ones talking about "rural culture", we're talking about whether the regulation of deadly weapons is a good or bad thing. Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
MiddleClassCentrist Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) As a law abiding citizen, I shouldn't have to register my car or any animal I have in my house. As a law abiding citizen, I shouldn't have to apply for a building permit. As a law abiding citizen, I should be able to carry a gun to a local elementary school. All as a law abiding citizen. Nothing but law abiding citizens in this country, right? Why are we spending so much time catering to people for the small inconvenience of registering their gun? Edited October 27, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
guyser Posted October 27, 2011 Report Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) I will take a shot at this...ohhh...pun intended. As a law abiding citizen, I shouldn't have to register my car or any animal I have in my house. On ths first part, the roads you drive on arent yours.Damage to them can and will be attributed back to yhou via registration.(and lets not go with not all cars are registered, they are) and for the second part of that, it is merely a cash grab, As a law abiding citizen, I shouldn't have to apply for a building permit. Safety issue in that a minimum standard has to be met. Of course not all building needs a permit but there ya go. As a law abiding citizen, I should be able to carry a gun to a local elementary school. Some of those little bastards need a good capping. But then again, so do the teachers. How'd I do ? Edited October 27, 2011 by guyser Quote
Guest Derek L Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 As a "new" hunter who is waiting for my PAL to be approved, I still don't see what the big deal is with the LGR. Think about all the other things we register, I'd love someone to explain what the big deal is, seriously. Simply put, it’s more about the principle with many (Myself included) of having a further government “control” put on our “way of life”……..I remember as a boy, being able to go into a store like and “Army Navy” with my Dad and they’d have WW II surplus Lee Enfields in a bin like a stack of brooms for sale at ~20 bucks a pop…..If someone could truly prove that the registry prevented crime, I’d forsake my complaint about Government controls and accept it, but it doesn’t……all the registry provided was a database for government for what I have in my home. A friend of mine has the Rancher model, great little rifle... tons of fun to shoot. That’s what I’ve got…….It about ~20 years old and haven’t had a serious complaint at all with it….The mini-30 is something to look at though…….It’s 7.62x39 (Same cartridge as AK-47) so you can buy surplus Soviet Army ammo dirt cheap……You just have to clean your gun really well after it because it’s very corrosive Quote
Guest Derek L Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 No ones talking about "rural culture", we're talking about whether the regulation of deadly weapons is a good or bad thing. Has the current regulation of long-guns proven effective? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 As a law abiding citizen, I shouldn't have to register my car or any animal I have in my house. Has registration of cars etc prevented crime and accidents associated with them? As for the dog, I don't think I've ever registered one......are you suppose to? As a law abiding citizen, I shouldn't have to apply for a building permit. You don’t (in BC) if it’s deemed a repair. As a law abiding citizen, I should be able to carry a gun to a local elementary school. Why would you want to? As far as I know, there isn’t a huge demand for this amongst gun owners………..But to humour you, are you opposed to a police officer carrying a loaded gun into a school? Why are we spending so much time catering to people for the small inconvenience of registering their gun? On the reverse, Why should the government impinge on other people’s hobbies to give another segment of society a false sense of security? I find those that dress in tight leather/PVC and “Goth” make-up and go dancing kind of disturbing, just as I worry about teenagers/young adults that constantly play “world of witchcraft” like games 24/7, but I’d never want the government to regulate these peoples hobbies……Why should they regulate mine? Quote
MiddleClassCentrist Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) On the reverse, Why should the government impinge on other people’s hobbies to give another segment of society a false sense of security? I find those that dress in tight leather/PVC and “Goth” make-up and go dancing kind of disturbing, just as I worry about teenagers/young adults that constantly play “world of witchcraft” like games 24/7, but I’d never want the government to regulate these peoples hobbies……Why should they regulate mine? Ya. I hear of people being injured and attacked with Goth clothing all the time. And just last week, another student used World of Warcraft to kill a guy who was hitting on his GF. Should I be able to put a loaded tank in my driveway, fully operational, and not let anyone know about it? Maybe have it aiming at the house of the neighbour I like the least to intimidate him? Guns are used for intimidation, everyone I know who had a gun had used it for that at some point in their life. Sure, some people get aroused by them... but, what is the big deal about filling out a piece of paper for one? Honestly? We do that for everything else... Edited October 28, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist Quote Ideology does not make good policy. Good policy comes from an analysis of options, comparison of options and selection of one option that works best in the current situation. This option is often a compromise between ideologies.
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 Does it mater? Are there calls to ban cars? I’m sure we can agree, after a government issued licence, there is some amount of risk in society driving cars no? There isn't a call to ban cars because there used by millions of people every single day for purposes other than killing. Guns are used for killing animals (wildlife and humans) or training to be able to kill more effectively. That is their purpose. Cars have utility beyond ending lives. That's what it's a stupid analogy. Quote
jbg Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 Nothing but law abiding citizens in this country, right?You really think the non-law-abiding are going to take a gun registry seriously? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Guest Derek L Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 Ya. I hear of people being injured and attacked with Goth clothing all the time. And just last week, another student used World of Warcraft to kill a guy who was hitting on his GF. Should I be able to put a loaded tank in my driveway, fully operational, and not let anyone know about it? Maybe have it aiming at the house of the neighbour I like the least to intimidate him? Guns are used for intimidation, everyone I know who had a gun had used it for that at some point in their life. Sure, some people get aroused by them... but, what is the big deal about filling out a piece of paper for one? Honestly? We do that for everything else... Guns are for intimidation? What are you talking about? Mine are for hunting and shooting holes through paper……..How is that intimidation? You’re using personal antidotes based on your impression of others………I have impressions of other groups, but the key difference is that I’m not asking the government to regulate other peoples……..Are you opposed to drug and alcohol use? What about cell phones? People who have unsafe sex with random strangers? Or enjoy fatty fast foods? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 There isn't a call to ban cars because there used by millions of people every single day for purposes other than killing. Guns are used for killing animals (wildlife and humans) or training to be able to kill more effectively. That is their purpose. Cars have utility beyond ending lives. That's what it's a stupid analogy. What’s wrong with killing animals? People go fishing…… As for “training to kill” (I assume you mean people), do you have any proof to back up this claim? I use my handguns to kill paper….. How many people died in car accidents every year in Canada? How many die from a legal gun, by a legal user? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 You really think the non-law-abiding are going to take a gun registry seriously? Exactly………From a local perspective……..What did the Long-gun registry do to prevent the Bacon Brothers crime spree? Quote
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 You really think the non-law-abiding are going to take a gun registry seriously? I think that's quite an oversimplification of crime, based on the notion that only "bad guys" commit crimes. The reality is that otherwise law abiding citizens can end up using these guns in crimes or suicide for myriad reasons, not the least of which are mental illness, drug/alcohol abuse, and domestic disputes. Quote
UofGPolitico Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 While I applaud a Canadian government for keeping their long standing promises, I really cannot understand why they feel the absolute need to shred the records all this wasted money was spent on collecting? Wouldn't it makes sense for us to get at least some bang for our buck on transferring these records to the provinces that want to build their own registry? I mean the money that would be spent destroying the records kind of falls outside this government's long-standing narrative on this issue. I've always felt the long-gun registry has been rather useless, and have always stood on the Conservative's side in opposition to it, but I never really thought they'd make such a big deal of destroying the records. Obviously they want to prevent it from EVER coming back even in decades after the Harper government is gone. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 I think that's quite an oversimplification of crime, based on the notion that only "bad guys" commit crimes. The reality is that otherwise law abiding citizens can end up using these guns in crimes or suicide for myriad reasons, not the least of which are mental illness, drug/alcohol abuse, and domestic disputes. But how is the registry helping prevent any of that? I’d say the current licensing program (PAL/RPAL) is there to address those issues……… Quote
jbg Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 Exactly………From a local perspective……..What did the Long-gun registry do to prevent the Bacon Brothers crime spree? From what I gather it was effective. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) But how is the registry helping prevent any of that? I’d say the current licensing program (PAL/RPAL) is there to address those issues……… I was replying to the claim that "criminals don't register their guns", which gets repeated over-and-over again. I'm not claiming the LGR stops crimes. However, the information is valuable to police officers responding to calls and 911 dispatchers when assessing the severity and risk of situations. At least that's what the proponents claim. That's not what I was responding to though. Edited October 28, 2011 by cybercoma Quote
Smallc Posted October 28, 2011 Report Posted October 28, 2011 However, the information is valuable to police officers responding to calls and 911 dispatchers when assessing the severity and risk of situations. I don't see how it could be. Quote
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