Shipbuilding contracts

[Smallc]

You mean like the ice breaking ships Harper once promised, promised some more and then reneged on?

Ummm, what are you talking about? This contract contains plans for 6 - 8 light ice breakers, and 1 polar ice breaker.

[Smallc]

Basic language as in the reasons why Harper and his Jet set flyboy MacKay were all in hiding for the announcement?

They weren't hiding, they had no part in the decision.

[Topaz]

The Europeans that made the decision were the British. Now, do you think British would give work to the French? I knew Quebec was out months before the decision was made and I was right. Maybe their reasons are different than mine, but the final solution was that Quebec didn't get the job. I'm also saying its right or wrong but I wonder what he effect on the Tories from Quebec will be in the future? Harper doesn't want any of his guys talking about this but just wait, I'm sure Quebec is NOT happy.

[capricorn]

You do know the NDP has been saying NS had the best bid for weeks now don't you?

What are you saying? That the NDP was privy to the bids by the individual contenders?

[The_Squid]

The Europeans that made the decision were the British. Now, do you think British would give work to the French? I knew Quebec was out months before the decision was made and I was right. Maybe their reasons are different than mine, but the final solution was that Quebec didn't get the job. I'm also saying its right or wrong but I wonder what he effect on the Tories from Quebec will be in the future? Harper doesn't want any of his guys talking about this but just wait, I'm sure Quebec is NOT happy.

You're really reaching here.... The British don't like the French so they wouldn't give them a Canadian contract? LOL... quite a theory...

It is about time that gov't contracts were dealt with in this manner. It is taxpayer robbery when a huge contract is awarded to an unqualified bidder for political reasons.

Edited October 19, 2011 by The_Squid

[Smallc]

The Europeans that made the decision were the British. Now, do you think British would give work to the French?

[Smallc]

So, we should start seeing ships between 2014 and 2016. What do you think will come out first? Will it be an arctic offshore patrol ship, the offshore oceanographic science vessel, or the first of three offshore fisheries science vessels? I'm not sure. The AOPS and the OOSV will probably start first, but these ships are large, in the range of 100M. The OFSVs are smaller, so it could be close for the first ship under each of these three contracts.

[Guest Derek L]

Oh, and just a point of contention - I don't really consider ships that can break 1M of ice continuously to be slush breakers. They aren't polar or heavy ice breakers mind you, but they'll still be able to operate for over half of the year.

Personally though, I'd rather they would have skipped them, and used the money for 4 more polar ice breakers. That would have replaced most of the fleet of 6 medium and heavy breakers. At least two of those will need replacement not long after the Louis S. St. Laurent, so I'd expect them to be announced by 2015.

Ice capable and ice breaker are apples and oranges……..none the less, I agree, I’d have built a second large breaker, then a more conventional patrol boat/cutter……..From what I’ve read, the design will at least be off the shelf, similar to the Svalbard class

[Guest Derek L]

Halifax and Vancouver...I thought it would be Halifax and Levis...oh well.

Called it!!!

Quite simply, the Irving yard and Vancouver/Victoria Ship both have proven tract records, they’re close proximity to the two navy bases helps and they didn’t just come out of bankruptcy.

[dpwozney]

Oh, and just a point of contention - I don't really consider ships that can break 1M of ice continuously to be slush breakers. They aren't polar or heavy ice breakers mind you, but they'll still be able to operate for over half of the year.

Personally though, I'd rather they would have skipped them, and used the money for 4 more polar ice breakers. That would have replaced most of the fleet of 6 medium and heavy breakers. At least two of those will need replacement not long after the Louis S. St. Laurent, so I'd expect them to be announced by 2015.

The expansion of ships, facilities and capability in the Arctic is being done with the belief that global warming will be making the Arctic more accessible.

[Wild Bill]

The Europeans that made the decision were the British. Now, do you think British would give work to the French? I knew Quebec was out months before the decision was made and I was right. Maybe their reasons are different than mine, but the final solution was that Quebec didn't get the job. I'm also saying its right or wrong but I wonder what he effect on the Tories from Quebec will be in the future? Harper doesn't want any of his guys talking about this but just wait, I'm sure Quebec is NOT happy.

Topaz, no doubt Quebec will be ticked but there's no way they even had a working shipyard to build the ships!

Here's a wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davie_Shipbuilding

"After the warship project was finished in the early 1990s, MIL-Davie Shipbuilding, along with the Davie yard in Lauzon went into receivership. After being bought by the Quebec government, Davie was sold to Dominion Bridge Company for $1. In 1998, the parent Dominion Bridge Company went into bankruptcy and the Davie shipyard went into trusteeship in 1998. It was sold again in 2000 and became Industries Davie, Ltd. In 2006, the shipyard was sold to TECO Maritime ASA of Norway which saw it restructured into a new company called Davie Yards Incorporated.

In early 2011, TECO announced that Davie Yards Inc was in receivership and announced a bid by Fincantieri – Cantieri Navali Italiani of Italy and Fincantieri subsidiary DRS Technologies Canada to purchase the shipyard from TECO.[3] This deal fell through in July 2011.

After the Fincantieri deal fell through, the yard underwent financial restructuring in July 2011 in order to qualify to bid for a portion of the $40 billion contract known as the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy which will see ships built for the Canadian Coast Guard, Canadian Forces and Department of Fisheries and Oceans.[4] This procurement strategy had its bidding deadline extended by 3 weeks specifically to accommodate the Davie restructuring."

So the place has been basically a deserted graveyard for a decade, after being passed off from owner to owner for a $1 a transaction. They would have lost a year or two just cleaning up all the old junk and getting things in shape to start building ships again!

This is why Harper did the right thing by keeping the politicians out of this. The contracts went to REAL working shipyards! Only a politician would waste time and money giving a contract to a deserted dump just to kiss Quebec's ass for some votes!

If Quebec had have won a contract, it would have been the F-18 maintenance contract fiasco all over again, when Mulroney gave the deal to a Quebec firm that had a higher bid and less expertise and experience, just as some pork for his Quebec base. That cost him the West, especially Manitoba that should have gotten the contract. It was the proverbial 'last straw' that gave the Reform Party it's spectacular launch!

I think the days of Quebec getting undeserved federal contracts are gone for a while. Not to say that there won't be any contracts, just that they will get them for having the best bid like anyone else and NOT from any threats of separation!

[Guest Derek L]

So, we should start seeing ships between 2014 and 2016. What do you think will come out first? Will it be an arctic offshore patrol ship, the offshore oceanographic science vessel, or the first of three offshore fisheries science vessels? I'm not sure. The AOPS and the OOSV will probably start first, but these ships are large, in the range of 100M. The OFSVs are smaller, so it could be close for the first ship under each of these three contracts.

The JSS and the AOPS will be first. Both, though large, will be less complex and both types can “borrow” from foreign designs……….

[Smallc]

From what I’ve read, the design will at least be off the shelf, similar to the Svalbard class

The design is ready to go. SXT Marine Canada designed both the AOPS and OOSV:

http://www.stxmarine.net/headlines.html

[Smallc]

The JSS and the AOPS will be first. Both, though large, will be less complex and both types can “borrow” from foreign designs……….

It seems that the OOSV and the OFSV will be first. They're almost ready to go. It looks like the JSS will have to be a Canadian design, and BMT and STX are still a couple of years from finishing the design.

[Guest Derek L]

Topaz, no doubt Quebec will be ticked but there's no way they even had a working shipyard to build the ships!

Here's a wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davie_Shipbuilding

"After the warship project was finished in the early 1990s, MIL-Davie Shipbuilding, along with the Davie yard in Lauzon went into receivership. After being bought by the Quebec government, Davie was sold to Dominion Bridge Company for $1. In 1998, the parent Dominion Bridge Company went into bankruptcy and the Davie shipyard went into trusteeship in 1998. It was sold again in 2000 and became Industries Davie, Ltd. In 2006, the shipyard was sold to TECO Maritime ASA of Norway which saw it restructured into a new company called Davie Yards Incorporated.

In early 2011, TECO announced that Davie Yards Inc was in receivership and announced a bid by Fincantieri – Cantieri Navali Italiani of Italy and Fincantieri subsidiary DRS Technologies Canada to purchase the shipyard from TECO.[3] This deal fell through in July 2011.

After the Fincantieri deal fell through, the yard underwent financial restructuring in July 2011 in order to qualify to bid for a portion of the $40 billion contract known as the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy which will see ships built for the Canadian Coast Guard, Canadian Forces and Department of Fisheries and Oceans.[4] This procurement strategy had its bidding deadline extended by 3 weeks specifically to accommodate the Davie restructuring."

So the place has been basically a deserted graveyard for a decade, after being passed off from owner to owner for a $1 a transaction. They would have lost a year or two just cleaning up all the old junk and getting things in shape to start building ships again!

This is why Harper did the right thing by keeping the politicians out of this. The contracts went to REAL working shipyards! Only a politician would waste time and money giving a contract to a deserted dump just to kiss Quebec's ass for some votes!

If Quebec had have won a contract, it would have been the F-18 maintenance contract fiasco all over again, when Mulroney gave the deal to a Quebec firm that had a higher bid and less expertise and experience, just as some pork for his Quebec base. That cost him the West, especially Manitoba that should have gotten the contract. It was the proverbial 'last straw' that gave the Reform Party it's spectacular launch!

I think the days of Quebec getting undeserved federal contracts are gone for a while. Not to say that there won't be any contracts, just that they will get them for having the best bid like anyone else and NOT from any threats of separation!

The most costliest part of the ships won’t be in the actual construction, but the electronics, engines and weapons, with many of these contracts possibly going to established companies with facilities’ already in Ontario and Quebec…..i.e. GE/Pratt Whitney/Lockheed.

[dpwozney]

The JSS and the AOPS will be first.

According to this slideshow:

delivery for the Offshore Fisheries Science Vessels is 2013-2016;

delivery for the Offshore Oceanographic Science Vessel is 2014;

delivery for the Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships is 2015-2021; and,

delivery for the Joint Support Ships is 2017-2018.

[Guest Derek L]

It seems that the OOSV and the OFSV will be first. They're almost ready to go. It looks like the JSS will have to be a Canadian design, and BMT and STX are still a couple of years from finishing the design.

Well Halifax gets the AOPS & 280/330 replacement, so AOPS will be first out East......As for Vancouver/Vic ship SEASPAN could build the smaller Coast Guard vessels in Victoria, well the JSS & Polar Ice Breaker are built in Vancouver…..I’ll place my bets that the JSS will be built concurrently with the smaller ships

[Smallc]

Well Halifax gets the AOPS & 280/330 replacement, so AOPS will be first out East......As for Vancouver/Vic ship SEASPAN could build the smaller Coast Guard vessels in Victoria, well the JSS & Polar Ice Breaker are built in Vancouver…..I’ll place my bets that the JSS will be built concurrently with the smaller ships

I think that the OOSV (which is 80M long) and the OFSVs (70M long) will be built at the same time, and the JSS will be built right after. The John G. Diefenbaker will be built concurrently. That means that there is definitely more ships to come for the Seaspan contract, as that would be the end of the contract otherwise. There will probably be 4 - 5 icebreakers, 2 - 4 CCG offshore patrol vessels, and about 10 multitask vessels of 2 - 3 sizes to come later. There will also, at that point, need to be another OOSV.

Halifax will probably build the AOPS first, and start the 280 replacements about the same time that the first AOPS is delivered. There may be, at some point, something Mistral like to come, as well as the potential for offshore patrol vessels to replace the rest of the Kingstons, given that fact that newer vessels will be less crew intensive.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Smallc

[Guest Derek L]

I think that the OOSV (which is 80M long) and the OFSVs (70M long) will be built at the same time, and the JSS will be built right after. The John G. Diefenbaker will be built concurrently. That means that there is definitely more ships to come for the Seaspan contract, as that would be the end of the contract otherwise. There will probably be 4 - 5 icebreakers, 2 - 4 CCG offshore patrol vessels, and about 10 multitask vessels of 2 - 3 sizes to come later. There will also, at that point, need to be another OOSV.

Halifax will probably build the AOPS first, and start the 280 replacements about the same time that the first AOPS is delivered. There may be, at some point, something Mistral like to come, as well as the potential for offshore patrol vessels to replace the rest of the Kingstons, given that fact that newer vessels will be less crew intensive.

The smaller Coast Guard ships will be built in Victoria, like the 47’ life boats and the Orcas…….but why I predict the JSS will be built first in Vancouver is the need……..Unless SEASPAN expands their facilities in Vancouver, the Diefenbreaker and the JSS won’t be built at the same time……..The Real-estate in North Vancouver surrounding Vancouver shipyard is already occupied by the Port of Vancouver with the remaining areas around lower Lonsdale being zoned commercial/residential.

[Smallc]

Well, then something is going to be late, because the JSS and JGD aren't ready to go. The OOSV is, and the OFSV will be by fall of next year.

[Smallc]

Based on the article I posted earlier, it will probably be the JSS.

[Smallc]

First in line will be the Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships in the combat package and the Science Vessels for the Canadian Coast Guard in the non-combat package.

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?nid=576369

[Guest Derek L]

Well, then something is going to be late, because the JSS and JGD aren't ready to go. The OOSV is, and the OFSV will be by fall of next year.

I don't doubt the smaller ships will start next year…….a rather basic design, and I don’t doubt they’ll spit them out with little trouble in Victoria starting next year…….But the Ice Breaker design, as far as I know, hasn’t been finalised either…..all three ships will literally come off a blank sheet of paper, if the government doesn’t relent and still purchase a foreign design………time will tell, as will the current condition of both the AOR’s and our current ice breakers.

[Smallc]

Yeah...add to that the fact that the same yard is refitting 5 frigates and a destroyer.

[Guest Derek L]

Yeah...add to that the fact that the same yard is refitting 5 frigates and a destroyer.

That’s Victoria ship……and all the refits aren’t concurrent……..Their large graving dock can be subdivided………and they also have access to Dockyard across the harbour for the maintenance aspects.......a lot of the work for FELEX will be done alongside