OCCUPY

blueblood · October 28, 2011

BS. The 1% might have taken risks, but the 99% are the ones that work hard and create the wealth for the 1%.

No they don't, they are free to buy products and services or they can choose not to. The 1% with their products and services give the 99% satisfaction of use of said products, in exchange they get paid for it.

BIll Gates helped found windows which helps business's/people with efficiency, makes their lives easier etc., in return bill gates gets paid.

Most of the time that 1% hires some of the 99% to help them produce more that customers want and as a result pay those "99%" a wage that the market allows.

cybercoma · October 28, 2011

Bill Gates made windows with electrical utilities with infrastructure paid for by the 99%; he delivered his products on roads maintained by the 99%; he hired a staff of the 99% to make his products better and to provide support for the 99% that bought his products; his business is protected from theft by police that are paid for by the 99% and protected from fire by fired departments paid for by the 99%; his staff were educated by schools paid for by the 99%. And it's great that you use Bill Gates as an example because he didn't even come up with the idea for Windows: he stole it from a roommate.

Edited October 28, 2011 by cybercoma

Shwa · October 28, 2011

Easy...I know all about Canada...just like you know all about Europe and the US.

Isn't it great to be an expert?

Well don't let your expertise hinge on the one example you have above, since you got it wrong.

Shwa · October 28, 2011

I don't recall ever seeing a great amount of serious crackdown on OCCUPY protests?

There have bein crackdowns on "other" protests yes I agree but OCCUPY protests?

WWWTT

WT...?

Rome as an 'Occupy' protest that went ugly. How about Oakland last week? Are you even following the issue?

Shwa · October 28, 2011

Ohh I get it,this has something to do with your generation or a generation gap right?

Thats funny because most of the hippies turned into yuppies(or something like that).

Are you one too?

WWWTT

I might say so, but my kids always remind me that I am not. But I was never a hippy in the temporal sense of the word. I was more of a punkish rebel without the fashion accessories. 'FTW' 'No Future Now' kind of guy. I have since mellowed a titch.

WWWTT · October 28, 2011

WT...?

Rome as an 'Occupy' protest that went ugly. How about Oakland last week? Are you even following the issue?

Yes I did comment on the Oakland issue.

Aswell as a couple of Canadian cities that are considering asking the OCCUPY protestors to move along.

Its only a matter of time that these protests start getting ugly unfortunetly.

WWWTT

WWWTT · October 28, 2011

No they don't, they are free to buy products and services or they can choose not to. The 1% with their products and services give the 99% satisfaction of use of said products, in exchange they get paid for it.

BIll Gates helped found windows which helps business's/people with efficiency, makes their lives easier etc., in return bill gates gets paid.

Most of the time that 1% hires some of the 99% to help them produce more that customers want and as a result pay those "99%" a wage that the market allows.

Ya you know what this boils down to the value of the 1%,campared to the value of 99%.

1% is overvalued,99% is undervalued!

Every time Harper legislates legitamite workers negotiating a contract,the conservatives effectively undervalue the 99% even further,causing more harm to the economy!

Conservative government = bad economics!

WWWTT

Rocky Road · October 28, 2011

More and more we see signs that things aren't well in the global economy.

Those of you interested in Max Keiser, might already be aware that these things are going on.

http://www.maxkeiser.com - Have a look and listen.

CPCFTW · October 28, 2011

Ya you know what this boils down to the value of the 1%,campared to the value of 99%.

1% is overvalued,99% is undervalued!

Every time Harper legislates legitamite workers negotiating a contract,the conservatives effectively undervalue the 99% even further,causing more harm to the economy!

Conservative government = bad economics!

WWWTT

It all boils down to who should determine the value of labour. The impartial market, or emotional, and biased humans? I vote for the market.

Let's say I was a miner. Why is my productive labour worth less than the labour of a professional athlete?

The market values the labour of professional athletes in the millions, while the labour of miners is worth very little. Why? Because 20,000 people wouldn't pay $50 to watch me take a pickaxe to a rock for a couple hours. There are billions of people who could do my job as a miner, but only a few thousand who can be the best athletes in the world.

And who is to say that professional athletes are less valuable than miners? Watching sports and other entertainment provides a means of escapism that could possibly enhance productivity. What kind of world would we live in if entertainers were compensated the same as the rest of us? Water cooler talk would be about that great Little Mosque on the Prairie episode last night.

People make choices, choices about entertainment, products and services to use, etc. The aggregate effect of these choices distributes wealth in an impartial manner.

If you want government to dictate your life, take some mandarin lessons and move to China:

http://www.hawkesburygazette.com.au/news/world/world/general/reality-check-for-tv-in-china/2337562.aspx

Many of the "fat cats" in China are in government. Just the way you lefties want it.

Edited October 28, 2011 by CPCFTW

WWWTT · October 28, 2011

It all boils down to who should determine the value of labour. The impartial market, or emotional, and biased humans? I vote for the market.

Let's say I was a miner. Why is my productive labour worth less than the labour of a professional athlete?

Really?

Do you have a link that can prove unionized workers are demanding to be payed at an equivilent rate as profesional athletes?

Or are you making it up?

WWWTT

WWWTT · October 28, 2011

It all boils down to who should determine the value of labour. The impartial market, or emotional, and biased humans? I vote for the market.

People make choices, choices about entertainment, products and services to use, etc. The aggregate effect of these choices distributes wealth in an impartial manner.

And who controls this "impartial" market?

If this were true then why did the conservative government legislate the posties and Air Canada employees back to work?

According to you the "impartial" market would handled everything perfectly well without the intervention of the conservative government!

WWWTT

Shwa · October 28, 2011

It all boils down to who should determine the value of labour. The impartial market, or emotional, and biased humans? I vote for the market.

People make choices, choices about entertainment, products and services to use, etc. The aggregate effect of these choices distributes wealth in an impartial manner.

Surely you must the see blatant contradictory elements in your silly explanation.

blueblood · October 28, 2011

And who controls this "impartial" market?

If this were true then why did the conservative government legislate the posties and Air Canada employees back to work?

According to you the "impartial" market would handled everything perfectly well without the intervention of the conservative government!

WWWTT

Except the govt gave those unions special rights and privelages to tamper with the market themselves. An impartial market would have seen those union workers canned long ago. If the govt can interfere one way, it can another.

Shwa · October 28, 2011

Except the govt gave those unions special rights and privelages to tamper with the market themselves. An impartial market would have seen those union workers canned long ago. If the govt can interfere one way, it can another.

When has a government never interfered in any market in any time in history?

blueblood · October 28, 2011

When has a government never interfered in any market in any time in history?

The closest we have was during the industrial revolution and in the usa from the end of the civil war to the turn of the century. Also greatest period of economic growth

Shwa · October 28, 2011

The closest we have was during the industrial revolution and in the usa from the end of the civil war to the turn of the century. Also greatest period of economic growth

So what you are admitting then, is that the "impartial market" you reference is more of a theoretical construct than anything. Because in human history there has never been an "impartial market."

blueblood · October 28, 2011

So what you are admitting then, is that the "impartial market" you reference is more of a theoretical construct than anything. Because in human history there has never been an "impartial market."

But the less the govt interferes with taxes and regulations, the more growth and prosperity there is

Shwa · October 28, 2011

But the less the govt interferes with taxes and regulations, the more growth and prosperity there is

For whom? Or are you theorizing again? If so, what model are you using?

cybercoma · October 28, 2011

Some of you need to read Industry and Humanity by William Lyon Mackenzie King. Written in 1918, it's still relevant today.

Edited October 28, 2011 by cybercoma

jacee · October 28, 2011

Except the govt gave those unions special rights and privelages to tamper with the market themselves. An impartial market would have seen those union workers canned long ago. If the govt can interfere one way, it can another.

WE are "the government" and "the government" gave unions NOTHING!

WE have the constitutional right to freedom of association and assembly and collective negotiation with employers, and to collectively withdraw labour.

Government intervention in free markets, free association seems fine with the predators like yourself. But listen to the whining when the government intervenes in your profits with taxation.

You get to use the labour, resources, infrastructure and government for personal private profit, paying peanuts to nothing, for the public means afforded to you to make those profits?

Are you nuts?

Is it any wonder people are protesting private megaprofits of the spoiled rotten, violent, pathological predators.

Stick a fork in 'em.

They're DONE!

THIS does NOT reflect the operation of a "free market":

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/387253/INCOME-INEQUALITY.jpg

It reveals the corruption of the "free market".

And if you are just a middle class earner as you claim ...

You lose.

To make it easier ... percentage increases in income (US) since 1979 look like this for each 20% of the population, with the top group representing ONLY the richest 1%.

Each $ represents a 10% increase in average after tax income.

20%

$

40%

$$

60%

$$$

80%

$$$$

99%

$$$$$$

100% $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If you are one of the 99% and you think this is the "free market" operating as it should, then I suggest you are either too stupid or too lazy or too chicken to do anything about your own victimization.

Fortunately many young people are neither stupid nor lazy nor frightened of wealth/power and they speak out for 99% of us against the 1% who control our governments, resources and livelihoods ... for their own predatory gain.

There is no "free" market.

There is no democracy.

There is only control of everything for the benefit of the 1%.

Edited October 28, 2011 by jacee

Shwa · October 28, 2011

Some of you need to read Industry and Humanity by William Lyon Mackenzie King. Written in 1918, it's still relevant today.

And some of you need to be a little more forthcoming as to why we should read certain books, hopefully keeping in context with the current discussion. Especially by authors who would end up a little nutty later in life.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Shwa

WWWTT · October 28, 2011

Except the govt gave those unions special rights and privelages to tamper with the market themselves. An impartial market would have seen those union workers canned long ago. If the govt can interfere one way, it can another.

Are you talking about constitutional rights?

Are you suggesting that the constitution is getting in the way of the market?

WWWTT

WWWTT · October 28, 2011

The closest we have was during the industrial revolution and in the usa from the end of the civil war to the turn of the century. Also greatest period of economic growth

It was also the time that unions were born!

WWWTT

blueblood · October 28, 2011

Are you talking about constitutional rights?

Are you suggesting that the constitution is getting in the way of the market?

WWWTT

All right you show me where in the constitution an organization has the right to collect deductions from workers pay checks and force all workers at the job to join said organization no matter if they want to or not.