punked Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I want to point out WITH NO EVIDENCE what so ever that any NDP member has been upgraded ever TimG has created a false equivalent. For there even to be an equivalent Tim you must first show a NDP upgrade. I will wait and ask you every post you make in this thread for you to prove that. Until you do, I must say you look silly and misinformed to create such information out of thin air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) For there even to be an equivalent Tim you must first show a NDP upgrade. I will wait and ask you every post you make in this thread for you to prove that.NDP MPs travel a lot. Some NDP MPs have Super Elite on Air Canada. These MPs will get upgrades all of the time. Some will be with their earned credits. Some will be complementary for any number of reasons. These are indisputable facts from the point of view of anyone who spends a lot of time flying. Suggesting that some of those upgrades were 'payback' from union members is innuendo just like the innuendo in this thread about Raitt.What the thread has is NO evidence that there was anything untoward about Raitt's upgrade. In fact, even if she was upgraded by the COO as 'payback' there is no evidence that she knew this had happened. She would have shown up in the airport like she always has. She would have been handled a business class upgrade like she has received many many times. She would have assumed her staff used her points or maybe she assume it was an overbooking issue. She would have had no way to know that it was a special deal and would have had no reason to question it. So unless you can provide some evidence that Raitt received a special deal and that she was aware of it then you got nothing. Edited October 14, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) NDP MPs travel a lot. Some NDP MPs have Super Elite on Air Canada. These MPs will get upgrades all of the time. Some will be with their earned credits. Some will be complementary for any number of reasons. These are indisputable facts from the point of view of anyone who spends a lot of time flying. whether or not you are right, the labour minister has to abide by a different set of ethics than a regular mp would Edited October 14, 2011 by olp1fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 whether or not you are right, the labour minister has to abide by a different set of ethics than a regular mp wouldCan you prove she even knew it was a special deal? Not a chance. Without that evidence you point is meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Can you prove she even knew it was a special deal? Not a chance. Without that evidence you point is meaningless. she could not explain why the COOs personal signature was on the document im not saying she took a bribe or a favour in " good faith that she will help him" but its enough to investigate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) she could not explain why the COOs personal signature was on the documentYou mean the document she only found out about because some union hack leaked it the press? You have no evidence that she was aware of this document before the leak. She likely showed up at the airport and was handed the upgrade with no explanation - just like she has done many times in the past. She had no way to know this particular upgrade was 'special' (and that assumes that it was). Edited October 14, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Seems like the government is going after unions who strike and would hurt the economy if they went on strike. So does this mean they are going after all unions or just the ones that interfere in their daily lives? I don't remember any Feds acting the way this government does towards workers. In 1997, Chretien Liberals passed back to work legislation to end a 2 week old postal strike. In 2007, under a Conservative government, the postal workers negotiated a settlement without striking. In the recent strike, postal workers were legislated back to work following a two week strike. Looks like both the Liberals and the Conservatives believe postal services are important to the country's economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battletoads Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 In 1997, Chretien Liberals passed back to work legislation to end a 2 week old postal strike. In 2007, under a Conservative government, the postal workers negotiated a settlement without striking. In the recent LOCKOUT, postal workers were legislated back to work WITH AN UNFAVORABLE CONTRACT following a two week LOCKOUT. Looks like both the Liberals and the Conservatives believe postal services are important to the country's economy. AFAIK the Liberals didn't reward Canada post execs for causing the stop in postal service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 AFAIK the Liberals didn't reward Canada post execs for causing the stop in postal service.So you are saying Libs rewarded the union for stopping the postal service? Why is that better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 she could not explain why the COOs personal signature was on the document Assuming there was a signature on the upgrade confirmation, was it the COO's personal signature, or a signature on a form, commonly issued to other upgrade customers? Do we know what the score is on that count? If I receive a statement of my Shoppers Drug Mart Optimum card points and it bears the signature of the company president or the director of marketing, I'm not so stupid as to think said president or director actually personally signed the statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Assuming there was a signature on the upgrade confirmation, was it the COO's personal signature, or a signature on a form, commonly issued to other upgrade customers? Do we know what the score is on that count? That's what I'm wondering. That's why I said that this doesn't smell right. Why would she do something so obvious? I don't believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) Assuming there was a signature on the upgrade confirmation, was it the COO's personal signature, or a signature on a form, commonly issued to other upgrade customers? Do we know what the score is on that count?All of this stuff is done electronically. There are no pieces of paper handed out with signatures on them. Air Canada may have those docs for internal purposes but the passenger would never see them. The process works like this: you request an upgrade when you check in or online. You show up at the gate and wait to see if your name is called. If you are called you are handed a new bording pass. Sometimes you may not request an upgrade and your name will get called and you are given a bording pass. There is nothing on the bording pass that explains why you got the upgrade. Most people won't even ask why - they are just happy to get it. In fact, the check in agents usually don't have a clue why - the computer chooses the names using some cryptic algorithm that combines your status and the price you paid for your ticket. I do not believe there was any way for Raitt to know that AC COO had done her a favour unless he called her up and told her. There is no evidence that he did. Edited October 14, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 We'll let the ethics commissioner deal with this, they will decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 So are those NDP MPs going submit all records of the upgrades they have received over the years and the explanation for them? I doubt that. It would make them look bad. Red-herring. Other people's questionable activities don't make the Minister's activities any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) Red-herring. Other people's questionable activities don't make the Minister's activities any better.Well, I yet to see any evidence that the minister engaged in questionable activities since no one has provided any evidence that the minister knew the upgrade was not a normal upgrade given to frequent flyers. People who are suggesting that she did engage in questionable activities are basically making crap up at this point. Edited October 14, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Well, I yet to see any evidence that the minister engaged in questionable activities since no one has provided any evidence that the minister knew the upgrade was not a normal upgrade given to frequent flyers. People who are suggesting that she did engage in questionable activities are basically making crap up at this point. What's your point? You're still running off on tangents about things that have nothing to do with the topic, as though they excuse the allegations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) What's your point? You're still running off on tangents about things that have nothing to do with the topic, as though they excuse the allegations.My point is the "allegations" have no more substance than my "allegations" about NDP MPs. There is nothing to excuse unless someone can demonstrate that she knew the upgrade was a special deal authorized by the COO when she got on that plane. Edited October 14, 2011 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olp1fan Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 My point is the "allegations" have no more substance than my "allegations" about NDP MPs. There is nothing to excuse unless someone can demonstrate that she knew the upgrade was a special deal authorized by the COO when she got on that plane. Bunk Mooreland will get her to confess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 OH MY GOD! Her flight was upgraded to Business Class for a flight from Ottawa to Toronto. This is an incredible scandal. She should step down and Harper should resign!......and Harper's involved, you can bet on that. What did he know....and when did he know it. A Public Inquiry is the only way to get to the bottom of this.....and until it's resolved, Raitt should step down. From Ottawa to Toronto. Oh my God! Must have been a slow news day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 OH MY GOD! Her flight was upgraded to Business Class for a flight from Ottawa to Toronto. This is an incredible scandal. She should step down and Harper should resign!......and Harper's involved, you can bet on that. What did he know....and when did he know it. A Public Inquiry is the only way to get to the bottom of this.....and until it's resolved, Raitt should step down. From Ottawa to Toronto. Oh my God! Must have been a slow news day. I agree. I mean, having a Minister - who is directly involved in a labour dispute and will be directly involved in back-to-work legislation for workers - getting perks from an executive in the same company... nah, that's nothing. What's a little grift between friends, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 OH MY GOD! Her flight was upgraded to Business Class for a flight from Ottawa to Toronto. This is an incredible scandal. She should step down and Harper should resign!......and Harper's involved, you can bet on that. What did he know....and when did he know it. A Public Inquiry is the only way to get to the bottom of this.....and until it's resolved, Raitt should step down. From Ottawa to Toronto. Oh my God! Must have been a slow news day. I was about to give a huge reply to this, but then it occurred to me what your screen name actually means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Everyone is assuming stuff here. Some are assuming it's a conflict of interest some are assuming it's a smear job. No one knows. Even if the Air Canada was trying to bribe her, It's on them, not her. She's had this position that AC people can't strike for months now. I don't a single perk like this would really affect public policy. It's sorta like when the PM wanted to go see a hockey game recently people flipped out on him for trying to use his influence to get more tickets. He's sort of the leader of the country. Perhaps he deserves a few perks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Weren't we arguing about positions of trust here recently? Something about some Chinese reporter? If the Minister of Labour, and I'm not saying it did happen, but if she received a gratuity from the company she is now backing with union-busting legislation, then it would indeed be a conflict of interest and that's on her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Everyone is assuming stuff here. Some are assuming it's a conflict of interest some are assuming it's a smear job. No one knows. Cheech to Chong: "Good thing we didn't step in it man..." Even if the Air Canada was trying to bribe her, It's on them, not her. She's had this position that AC people can't strike for months now. I don't a single perk like this would really affect public policy. I get it. Sort of like someone slipping some money into the cops pocket while he isn't looking. He finds it, exclaims his glee and spends it. It's sorta like when the PM wanted to go see a hockey game recently people flipped out on him for trying to use his influence to get more tickets. He's sort of the leader of the country. Perhaps he deserves a few perks? Why, did Bettman swing some sweet tix while the PM was contemplating back to work legislation for NHL players? Sort of...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Weren't we arguing about positions of trust here recently? Something about some Chinese reporter? If the Minister of Labour, and I'm not saying it did happen, but if she received a gratuity from the company she is now backing with union-busting legislation, then it would indeed be a conflict of interest and that's on her. Apparently she's revealed that she got the upgrade on points. This is such a non-story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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