William Ashley Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 "Van Loan's time allocation motion was provoked by a Liberal attempt last week to delay the legislation by a "reasoned amendment" which would have deleted every page of the more than 100-page bill." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/09/27/pol-omnibus-pushthru.html Sounds like this is right around the corner. Quote I was here.
scribblet Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 I agree, Peter Van Loan should be re-elected, immediately if not sooner... Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
CitizenX Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) A reasoned amendment sets out reasons for not agreeing to the principles of a bill. The amendment proposes withdrawing or redrafting the bill. A member must word it correctly, and comply with the Legislative Assembly's rules. After a member moves it, all members can debate both the bill and the amendment. If the Assembly agrees to a reasoned amendment, the bill lapses and does not progress any further. The government hasn't provided a clear cost estimate, and that bundling so much legislation together will compromise Parliament's ability to review and scrutinize its contents and implications on behalf of Canadians. Two points I agree with. I'm very suspicious of people that demand to rush something and refuse to discuss it or allow to be fully studied. Edited September 27, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
punked Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 "Van Loan's time allocation motion was provoked by a Liberal attempt last week to delay the legislation by a "reasoned amendment" which would have deleted every page of the more than 100-page bill." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/09/27/pol-omnibus-pushthru.html Sounds like this is right around the corner. So limiting time on debate and pushing through a bill not everyone knows the cost and details of is a good thing? Please please repeat that statement. Conservatives have shown how hypocritical they truly are. Just because you limit the time on this bill wont stop people from talking about it, people wont forget it. I am not saying it is right or wrong, but Harper was always the one screaming about government transparency when he was in opposition. Good to know the Conservatives are just like the Liberals when they are in government. Quote
William Ashley Posted September 27, 2011 Author Report Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) I agree, Peter Van Loan should be re-elected, immediately if not sooner... you misunderstand --- I'm refering to the person who proposed the reasoned ammendment to delete every page of the 100 page bill. it is the funniest thing Ive read out of parliament in a while. (I laughed .....twice in three or four bursts...) (I'm still chuckling) Edited September 27, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
CitizenX Posted September 27, 2011 Report Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) So limiting time on debate and pushing through a bill not everyone knows the cost and details of is a good thing? Please please repeat that statement. Conservatives have shown how hypocritical they truly are. Just because you limit the time on this bill wont stop people from talking about it, people wont forget it. I am not saying it is right or wrong, but Harper was always the one screaming about government transparency when he was in opposition. Good to know the Conservatives are just like the Liberals when they are in government. Don't you know this is the Conservative way. Don't think about anything just follow the great leaders orders. They are a Totalitarian party trying to work within a democratic Country. It's never about what is good for Canada with these people, it all about power and control. Why don't they just call themselves what the really are The Canadian Totalitarian Neo-Liberal Party. (CTNP) I agree, Peter Van Loan should be re-elected, immediately if not sooner A prime example of a CTNP Member Edited September 27, 2011 by CitizenX Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
Topaz Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 The only way to find out what REALLY is inside this BILL, is when he goes to the senate but if the Tory senators want to cut it short and rush it through, then Canadians should be concerned of what is in the Bill. I just wondering how much of OUR liberties the Tories will take away, if any. Quote
PIK Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 What did the libs actually do for 13 years in power. It seem harper is cleaning up the same messes that were there when chretein was in power. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
CitizenX Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 What did the libs actually do for 13 years in power. It seem harper is cleaning up the same messes that were there when chretein was in power. Such as? Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
William Ashley Posted September 28, 2011 Author Report Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Such as? 4 minutes a page is not a lot to ask. http://parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=5124131&file=4 I have no fing clue what is in this and I consider myself above lay Act to enact the Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act and to amend the State Immunity Act, the Criminal Code, the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and other Acts This is a massive status quo shift. There is quite a difference in making an act and making an act to amend multiple acts. This is also a "money bill" meaning the senate has nothing to do with it.. and the costs are "non material" the bill is an unlimited funnel. This is not legal. The bill is out of order. appropriation of public revenue under the circumstances, in the manner and for the purposes set out in a measure entitled Absolutely rediculous ammendments like rename the National Parole Board as the Parole Board of Canada.... what the hell does that have to do with getting tough on crime, it is a waste of ink also amends the Criminal Records Act to substitute the term “record suspension” for the term “pardon” ... this is totally just cluster fing nonsense.. Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness may consider in deciding whether to consent to the transfer of a Canadian offender. political interference. International law states extradition is from judiciary to judiciary, the political side of things does not meet with Canada's international treaty obligations. This is seriously infringing independence of the judiciary. "allow officers to refuse to authorize foreign nationals to work in Canada in cases where to give authorization would be contrary to public policy considerations that are specified in instructions given by the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration" absolutely out of order. This bill is nothing but an executive veto -- one that is contrary to the legal basis of Canada. Canada has no force of law over foreign nationals outside of Canada. Canada's jurisdiction does not extend to foreign states -- in this respect the change of law has no legal force. The measure is a violation of the UN charter. This measure is very wrong as a retrosepctive declaration of war -- it is very very imprudent. sooooo loooong Edited September 28, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Scotty Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 (edited) Don't you know this is the Conservative way. Don't think about anything just follow the great leaders orders. Except the 'great leader' is basically fulfilling his mandate and the wishes of the people. They are a Totalitarian party trying to work within a democratic Country. Chretien invoked closure some 50 times during his time as prime minister. But I guess that was okay, right? It certainly didn't make them 'totalitarians'. Edited September 28, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
CitizenX Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 Chretien invoked closure some 50 times during his time as prime minister. I'm sorry I'm not following, please enlighten. Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
Scotty Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 I'm sorry I'm not following, please enlighten. What is it you don't understand? Do you consider the Liberals to be a 'totalitarian party' too? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
CitizenX Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 What is it you don't understand? Do you consider the Liberals to be a 'totalitarian party' too? Chretien invoked closure some 50 times. What do you mean? Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
CitizenX Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 ... this is totally just cluster fing nonsense.. “This is not the end; this is just the beginning of our efforts in this regard,” - Justice Minister Rob Nicholson Watch out for "lawful access" Legislation - a controversial step that would compel Web service providers to hand over information even without a search warrant. Quote "The rich people have their lobbyists and the poor people have their feet." The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. - Plato
Scotty Posted September 28, 2011 Report Posted September 28, 2011 Chretien invoked closure some 50 times. What do you mean? Closure means curtailing debate on bills in parliament, and ramming them through. Closure Then there's time allocation, which is what the tories have done. Limiting Debate Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Jerry J. Fortin Posted September 29, 2011 Report Posted September 29, 2011 Closure means curtailing debate on bills in parliament, and ramming them through. Closure Then there's time allocation, which is what the tories have done. Limiting Debate These things are time honored methods of governing in accordance with the plethora of established and accepted political tactics available to all members. Quote
punked Posted September 29, 2011 Report Posted September 29, 2011 Chretien invoked closure some 50 times during his time as prime minister. But I guess that was okay, right? It certainly didn't make them 'totalitarians'. Awesome so now Conservative members are bragging they are just like the Liberals. You guys use to be better then that what happened? Quote
William Ashley Posted September 29, 2011 Author Report Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) the ramming is different when you are making things easier rather than tougher. tougher equates loss of personal liberties.. which is anticonstitutional as canada is suppose to be a free society life liberty and security of person section 7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Seven_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms it seems more fit to shutter parliament under this threat than one of democracy and free association "Section 7 rights can also be violated by the conduct of a party other than a Canadian government body. The government need only be a participant or complicit in the conduct threatening the right, where the violation must be a reasonably foreseeable consequence of the government actions." I think the view is clear "The purpose of this Act is to deter terrorism by establishing a cause of action that allows victims of terrorism to sue perpetrators of terrorism and their supporters." did personal damage suits not previously exist? Edited September 29, 2011 by William Ashley Quote I was here.
Scotty Posted September 30, 2011 Report Posted September 30, 2011 Awesome so now Conservative members are bragging they are just like the Liberals. You guys use to be better then that what happened? I'm sorry, but when did anyone claim the Conservatives, once in power, would not use all the parliamentary tools at their disposal? I think the claim was they wouldn't be as corrupt and self-serving as the Liberals, and so far they've accomplished that much. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
punked Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 I'm sorry, but when did anyone claim the Conservatives, once in power, would not use all the parliamentary tools at their disposal? I think the claim was they wouldn't be as corrupt and self-serving as the Liberals, and so far they've accomplished that much. Yah yah we heard the same thing about the Liberal party to. That was when Harper was on the other side screaming at the top of his lungs he would be more transparent and honest. He hasn't been he is the same as the Liberals before him. Quote
jacee Posted October 2, 2011 Report Posted October 2, 2011 Except the 'great leader' is basically fulfilling his mandate and the wishes of the people. Ya right! Conservative voters wanted him to spend billions on nothing! Do you even know what's in it? Quote
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