Triple E Senate?

[noelandmero]

Why are so many people against this proposal? It puts a check on the dictatorial powers on any majority government, it is representative by province and in a country the size of canada with all the provinces having different problems this is very important and it also no province can ever claim they have not had there say. I only see the upside to this equation.

[August1991]

Sorry to say this but it's true, Canada has a significant linguistic minority that is small in North American terms.

For Quebec to remain part of Canada, Canada must provide some kind of protection for the French language. The Triple E proposal doesn't do that.

No Quebec government would accept Triple-E except in the context of devolving powers to Quebec.

[Boydfish]

Sorry to say this but it's true, Canada has a significant linguistic minority that is small in North American terms.

Yes, but the Canadian government refuses to do anything to protect the Punjabi and Cantonese lingusitic minorities in British Columbia. So your point is moot.

For Quebec to remain part of Canada, Canada must provide some kind of protection for the French language. The Triple E proposal doesn't do that.

OK, then Quebec can leave. Where are they going to get the $7 billion dollars in aid per year that they need to be a province, not even counting the billions more they'd need to be a country? Quebec seperatism is an empty threat.

As well, without EEE, Alberta, BC and probably Saskatchewan will be out of your confederation in less than 10 years. So, without putting too fine a point on it, failing to put in a EEE senate will destroy your confederation faster than anything else.

No Quebec government would accept Triple-E except in the context of devolving powers to Quebec.

OK, Quebec doesn't accept it. So what? They're irrelevant.

[Michael Hardner]

OK, Quebec doesn't accept it. So what? They're irrelevant.

Luckily, even Mr. Harper doesn't have such a careless attitude towards our country.

The insistance on Triple-E senate seems to be based on the idea that 10 provinces deserve equal say but there's no reason for that to be the case. Most of the people live in just two provinces in the east.

The Senate doesn't really do anything but block legislation (or send back) anyway, and they haven't done that in a long long time.

If you want less government, then you should be in favour of abolishing the senate. This is an idea whose time has come.

[Boydfish]

The insistance on Triple-E senate seems to be based on the idea that 10 provinces deserve equal say but there's no reason for that to be the case.

What exactly do you think a confederation is?

If you want less government, then you should be in favour of abolishing the senate. This is an idea whose time has come.

Yeah, great, leave it all in the hands of the collection of Liberal hacks called the House of Commons. Why simply disband them and have the entire confederation run out of the PMO?

Having less, but still crappy, government isn't the answer: Having effective and reasonable government is.

[August1991]

What exactly do you think a confederation is?

A confederation is a free union of sovereign states, something Canada was not in 1867.

OK, then Quebec can leave. Where are they going to get the $7 billion dollars in aid per year that they need to be a province, not even counting the billions more they'd need to be a country? Quebec seperatism is an empty threat.

Aw geez, you're back on that again. Now you sound like the violent husband who tells the little wifey that she'll be crawling back in a few days.

Listen Fish, let's agree to disagree. Or agree to what we agree on.

The federal government should be a positive force in the lives of Canadians in all parts of the country, otherwise, why have it? Government should conform to the way people are; people should not have to conform to the way the government wants them to be.

Yeah, great, leave it all in the hands of the collection of Liberal hacks called the House of Commons. Why simply disband them and have the entire confederation run out of the PMO?

It appears you still believe the federal government is relevant. To many Quebecers, the federal government is irrelevant. No one pays much attention to what it does.

[noelandmero]

Other than Quebec being anti-triple e what other good reason is there for not having a good check on the PMO's office. I am all for smaller government but I am also a realist and this is never going to happen so why not try and make our government work better and not just for one or two provinces. In the US you do hear cali or nyc complain that alska has equal power in the senate so why should quebec or ontario. If we do not get a triple e senate I fail to see why smaller population wise provinces would want to stay in confederation to be ruled by a majority population wise who has no idea about her unique regional problems.

[Michael Hardner]

Yeah, great, leave it all in the hands of the collection of Liberal hacks called the House of Commons.

Aha. So this is about "democratic reform is needed because my party didn't win the election".

The NDP is doing basically the same thing, arguing for PR.

[Boydfish]

Aha. So this is about "democratic reform is needed because my party didn't win the election".

No, the Diefenbaker and Mulroney governments also proved that the PMO has too much power in it.

A confederation is a free union of sovereign states, something Canada was not in 1867.

Then your confederation is a lie. Thank you for admitting that.

Now you sound like the violent husband who tells the little wifey that she'll be crawling back in a few days.

This is your one and only opportunity to retract that statement.

many Quebecers, the federal government is irrelevant. No one pays much attention to what it does.

The massive percentage of Quebecker's who draw their pay from direct and indirect Canadian government funding would disagree strongly. Without the massive subsidies of the Canadian government, Bombardier would be an artillery rank.

I think you truly don't understand how little BC pays attention to Canada. Or their government. I noticed that Quebeckers lined up nice and good to register their guns because Papa Ottawa told them to, but oddly, that didn't happen out west. I wonder why?

[August1991]

Then your confederation is a lie. Thank you for admitting that.

Huh?

This is your one and only opportunity to retract that statement.

Is that a threat?

The massive percentage of Quebecker's who draw their pay from direct and indirect Canadian government funding would disagree strongly. Without the massive subsidies of the Canadian government, Bombardier would be an artillery rank.

The question rather is what Quebecers give to the federal government and then what they get back in return.

You seem to be under the illusion that Ottawa is a cake made of ingredients from the West and eaten by people in Quebec. In fact, Ottawa makes a cake using ingredients from everywhere. The real problem is that the cake is not always edible.

Am I saying something shocking if I say that Ottawa destroys wealth?

Many Quebecers feel that Ottawa only gives them bad decisions. Ottawa decides things that they themselves could decide better on their own, in their own way.

[noelandmero]

Aha. So this is about "democratic reform is needed because my party didn't win the election".

This has nothing to do with winning the election this has to do with making Canada's government more accountable, less dictatorial and ensuring that everyone gets a fare shake.

[Guest eureka]

The Senate, as constituted, does equally represent the four Regions of Canada. The idea of equal provincial representation is merely a provincial ploy to politicize the body.

Provincially equal would turn the Senate into a servant of the Provincial governments: elected it would become merely another arm of political parties.

Effective, it should be made by restoring some of the power it constitutionally should have. That does not mean giving it the powers of a Presidential system to be a competing body to the Commons.

At present, it represents both Regional and National interests. All that is needed is to ensure that it is able to carry out those functions without the interference of the "Provincialists."

There should be some method of appointment that makes it less beholden to the Prime Minister of the day: one that also maintains its independence from parties and provinces.

[Cartman]

I am being lazy I know, but does anyone know (off the top of their heads) about how much we would save by eliminating the Senate? Seems to me we already have too many costly levels of government.