Gap between rich and poor rising faster in Canada

[Guest Derek L]

Sounds fair to me....lazy welfare families and lazy rich pay at the same rate. Makes for a nice bell curve.

Not on income……..you’re talking about capital gains………the proverbial double dip……That money has already been taxed……

[bush_cheney2004]

Not on income……..you’re talking about capital gains………the proverbial double dip……That money has already been taxed……

I know...it irks some that the "rich" would dare make more money on investment income without having to "work" for it.

[Moonlight Graham]

So a few of the richest of the richest, who control the halls of power, or at least tax policy, have used that power only for their own benefit. It benefits no other rich people but themselves.

And then there is untaxed wealth stashed offshore ...

And then there is corporate welfare ...

And then there is the power to control trading laws and policies that allowed (eg) GoldmanSachs to reap megaprofits 'hedging' against their own products that they first sold off to suckers.

That's considered smart on Wall Street.

It's a money issue, but mostly a power issue. Subprime mortgages that could have been renegotiated to minimize losses and keep people in their homes, were instead foreclosed so that those 'in the know' - ie, pulling the strings - could reap megaprofits betting that the mortgages would fail.

And they did fail, and banks with them but for taxpayer bailouts. So (eg) GoldmanSachs and its investors made money on the subprime mortgages twice, and the second time it was the taxpayers who paid the rich people, the same people who manipulated the system for personal benefit, without regard for the entire financial system nor for the entire country of people impacted.

And that's considered 'smart' on Wall Street.

There's a relative few ultrarich predators without human values controlling lawmakers and laws and policies for their own personal benefit only, benefits like tax rates not even shared by others in the same very high income levels.

Sociopathic predators without conscience are 'smart' ... and dangerous.

We let THEM control politicians to set tax policies for themselves?

Enough.

Marry me.

[jacee]

Good god its like reasoning with a brick wall.

Even with the lower percentages the rich person pays far more dollars in taxes than a poor person. That rich person deserves a lower rate because the fact of him being rich helps out more people than the average joe by hiring, investing, spending, saving in a bank etc.

And to say rich people don't work hard is proposterous. They work hard and play harder.

You've missed some points from earlier in the thread.

This isn't about "rich people" in general, but just about the richEST of the rich.

The richEST prey on the rest of the rich: The richEST pay much lower rates of taxes than the rest of the rich.

The rich may work hard, but the richEST get richer just by not paying as much in taxes as the rest of the rich.

And they don't give a damn how hard anybody works.

Abd they don't give a damn whether families lose their homes, banks fail, or the ewhole financial system fails and gets bailed out by taxpayers ... because they 'won' ... made megaprofits off the homeless families and then again off the taxpayers and then they made money off the rest of the rich by influencing tax laws so they pay a far lower rate of taxes and sticking the rest of the rich with the tax. bill ... You know the one ... for the bailouts ... your taxpayer money that the richEST pocketed.

If you are still in the stage of denial where you think rich folks stick together ... think again because some of the richEST do not 'have your back':

They're sticking knives in it.

Edited October 2, 2011 by jacee

[Bonam]

Just curious, how many of these "richEST" that fit your narrative do you think exist in Canada, jacee? Can you name a few of the Canadians that fit the bill? After all, the names of billionaires are widely available, you should be able to find some examples.

[bush_cheney2004]

The rich may work hard, but the richEST get richer just by not paying as much in taxes as the rest of the rich.

And they don't give a damn how hard anybody works.

Neither do I...that is irrelevant. May as well compare a receptionist to a roofer. Who works "harder"?

Abd they don't give a damn whether families lose their homes, banks fail, or the ewhole financial system fails and gets bailed out by taxpayers ... because they 'won' ... made megaprofits off the homeless families and then again off the taxpayers and then they made money off the rest of the rich by influencing tax laws so they pay a far lower rate of taxes and sticking the rest of the rich with the tax. bill ... You know the one ... for the bailouts ... your taxpayer money that the richEST pocketed.

In Canada? How so?

If you are still in the stage of denial where you think rich folks stick together ... think again because some of the richEST do not 'have your back':

They're sticking knives in it.

That's OK...it's part of the game....for winners and losers...the one you want to stop because some can't compete.

[jacee]

Marry me.

Ummm ... are you rich?

[jacee]

Not on income……..you’re talking about capital gains………the proverbial double dip……That money has already been taxed……

What money has already been taxed?

The gain?

Edited October 2, 2011 by jacee

[Bonam]

What money has already been taxed?

The gain?

Care to answer the question?

Just curious, how many of these "richEST" that fit your narrative do you think exist in Canada, jacee? Can you name a few of the Canadians that fit the bill? After all, the names of billionaires are widely available, you should be able to find some examples.

[jacee]

Care to answer the question?

Who are the culprits in Canada?

I'm not going to speculate on who hides income/wealth f rom taxation, but I think a review of the laws and loopholes is in order.

I also think a review of corporate subsidies is in order, and those that have not resulted in any new jobs should be disallowed.

[Guest Derek L]

Who are the culprits in Canada?

I'm not going to speculate on who hides income/wealth f rom taxation, but I think a review of the laws and loopholes is in order.

I also think a review of corporate subsidies is in order, and those that have not resulted in any new jobs should be disallowed.

So what you’re saying, is that you don’t really know for a fact that any of Canada’s current Billionars are in fact crooks?

Perhaps your casue might gain more traction if it had a face & a name(s)………

[Guest Derek L]

What money has already been taxed?

The gain?

Where do you think “people like me” get the money to invest?

[Bonam]

Where do you think “people like me” get the money to invest?

Obviously, you steal it from the poor. You spend the evenings roaming the streets and beating up homeless people so you can take their nickels and dimes and invest them into shares of evil corporations that make profits by having their mad scientists infect homeless people with AIDS and then sell them expensive treatments via our publicly funded healthcare system, all so that their CEOs can bang even more hot slave girls in the Caymans.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Bonam

[Guest Derek L]

Obviously, you steal it from the poor. You spend the evenings roaming the streets and beating up homeless people so you can take their nickels and dimes and invest them into shares of evil corporations that make profits by having their mad scientists infect homeless people with AIDS and then sell them expensive treatments via our publicly funded healthcare system, all so that their CEOs can bang even more hot slave girls in the Caymans.

Nah………I get my money from the Aerospace/Defence/Mining/Oil and Gas industries………..Ohh….and robbing Girl Guides for their cookie money

Edited October 2, 2011 by Derek L

[Bonam]

Haha, awesome

[jacee]

So what you’re saying, is that you don’t really know for a fact that any of Canada’s current Billionars are in fact crooks?

Perhaps your casue might gain more traction if it had a face & a name(s)………

Ya right. You're being a little obvious.

Sorry to disappoint but I don't have the tax records for review.

Wealth hidden from taxation is a criminal matter, but the tax system needs to be investigated too for loopholes and for compliance, and for undue influence by wealthy elites with acce$$ to lawmaker politicians.

There is no good reason why the wealthiEST pay the same rate of taxes as those on welfare.

And no good reason for corporate subsidies if they are being scooped as profits instead of creating jobs.

[Guest Derek L]

Ya right. You're being a little obvious.

Sorry to disappoint but I don't have the tax records for review.

Wealth hidden from taxation is a criminal matter, but the tax system needs to be investigated too for loopholes and for compliance, and for undue influence by wealthy elites with acce$$ to lawmaker politicians.

There is no good reason why the wealthiEST pay the same rate of taxes as those on welfare.

And no good reason for corporate subsidies if they are being scooped as profits instead of creating jobs.

Well that's just the point , we don’t have the tax records of the billionaires, so in fact, we don’t know that they are committing crimes……..The Burden of Proof is on their accusers…………If they take advantage of existing “loopholes” and “tax breaks/shelters” that not illegal, nor is it immoral…..It’s their right…….If you and enough Canadians don’t like the laws/tax rates, elect a government that will change them….simple as that……..they only make up 1% as you say………In our current system, a majority is had with ~40%….Do the math

[maple_leafs182]

When central banks print money it devalues the currency, that isn't junk economics that is common knowledge. Where do you think the value of the dollars that went to bail out all the banks, corporations and other governments came from...they steal the value of the other dollars in existence. Who gets hurt the most when prices rise, the middle and lower classes. The rich benefit from rising prices because it leads to higher profit margins for the corporations they own. It isn't junk economics understanding the monetary system.standard leads to equality but it prevents people wealth from being stolen threw inflation.

Please tell me what was wrong with this statement.

[jacee]

Well that's just the point , we don’t have the tax records of the billionaires, so in fact, we don’t know that they are committing crimes……..The Burden of Proof is on their accusers…………If they take advantage of existing “loopholes” and “tax breaks/shelters” that not illegal, nor is it immoral…..It’s their right…….If you and enough Canadians don’t like the laws/tax rates, elect a government that will change them….simple as that……..they only make up 1% as you say………In our current system, a majority is had with ~40%….Do the math

Democracy is more than elections. We do get to try to influence politicians while they are governing as well. They are still accountable to the public, including those who didn't vote, or didn't vote for them. An MP represents all the people in the riding, and a Prime Minister represents all of the people in the country.

The elite wealthy have more access to influencing government policy, far beyond their number of votes. For example, whether he likes it or not, Stephen Harper has to answer to some of the Liberal elite, like Paul Desmarais, whom he tried to hide from cameras recently.

But you already know this stuff and you are just trying to deflect any criticism of the system as it is. Perhaps you see that as your responsibility (I assure you, it isn't) or just your personal choice, but it's a very narrow, constrained and not very realistic view of democracy. In fact, it sounds like you are trying to make it out to be a hierarchy, an autocracy, where people are just supposed to fall in line, follow orders, and believe what they're told to believe, but that's not democracy. Democracy is based in freedom of expression, freedom of assembly ... you know ... the rights and freedoms

here ....

We do not have to 'put up and shut up' between elections.

But you can if you wish.

[Moonlight Graham]

Ummm ... are you rich?

richEST!

[jacee]

richEST!

Oh dear, that's too bad. I'm afraid we just wouldn't be compatible.

But ... do you like protests? Perhaps we could be protest buddies.

[jacee]

Where do you think “people like me” get the money to invest?

Ahhh ... backing off now from your 'double dip' nonsense?

[CPCFTW]

Ahhh ... backing off now from your 'double dip' nonsense?

No he's not. He earns his money through employment, most of that money is taxed at the highest marginal rate. Then the leftover money that has already been subjected to income tax, is invested and subjected to investment income tax. It's not that hard to figure out. Do try to keep up.

Now let's say he worked his ass off as a teenager to adulthood, got a great job and earned 100k for 5yrs, then started his own green energy business with the money he had saved and was very successful, then sold his business 10yrs later for 100 million. He's now 40yrs old with 100 million dolars which he has earned and invested. He returns to work making 100k per year, but his lower taxed investment income is 5-6 million per year. Now he is an evil predatory rich elite?

[Guest Derek L]

Ahhh ... backing off now from your 'double dip' nonsense?

Not at all, the government does get a second crack at income that I’ve already paid tax on

[Rick]

The above response reminds me of Patrick Ewing's "defense" of being a very well paid NBA player during the last work stoppage in that league...

It was laughably pathetic then and it still is now....

So I'm not the only one who read that and immediately thought of Ewing's

'Well we earn a lot of money but we spend a lot of money too' comment.

If memory serves me correctly, which it usually does..

Pretty much everyone thought he was an idiot for uttering such a statement and he was mocked for it on numerous sport talk shows.