The next NDP leader

[Newfoundlander]

Lorraine Michael!

[cybercoma]

You think Chretien survived 13 years as PM because he did not have control of his caucus and cabinet? That did not frighten you? That wasn't a mess?

I didn't say that at all. In fact, I said pretty much the exact opposite of that. However, you can't deny that Harper has a shorter leash on his party than Chretien and others. His candidates can't even speak to the media or attend constituency debates without approval from the brass. Harper absolutely has more control over his caucus than other PMs and if it was scary and a mess with Chretien, it's even worse as subsequent Prime Ministers, regardless of their party, continue to consolidate that power and control in the PMO.

[fellowtraveller]

I didn't say that at all. In fact, I said pretty much the exact opposite of that. However, you can't deny that Harper has a shorter leash on his party than Chretien and others.

I see zero substantive difference, other than the certifiable fact that Chretien did keep control of his caucus and cabinet for about twice as long as Harper has to date.

Your argument seems to be that Harper has a different communication strategy than Chretien. I'll remind you that a central part of Chretiens communication policy to Canadians involved shuffling around $200 million in unaccounted money to Montreal ad agencies. I don't see any reason whatsoever for me to admire that or Harper to emulate it.

[PIK]

what about the omnibus bill and billions for new jails?

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Nicholson+rejects+lawyers+plea+soften+crime+bill/5259680/story.html

William it is our turn, restoritive justice has been a failure. New jails ,why not, ever been in one, I have not. But I know many you have been and no wonder people come out even worse, very overcrowded, dirty and run by thugs. You seem to come off as some one alway worrying about the people ,well you should be for all this, it will make it easier and safer for imates. People complain it is going to be like america,ever watch lock up, do you want those poeple running around free, do you? I would like to see a 3 part jail, 1st get thier health checked out and fixed up, then go to a educational part to get your education ,then the 3 rd part jail ,to sit and thing about what you have done and can do with a new start on life.

[cybercoma]

I see zero substantive difference, other than the certifiable fact that Chretien did keep control of his caucus and cabinet for about twice as long as Harper has to date.

Your argument seems to be that Harper has a different communication strategy than Chretien. I'll remind you that a central part of Chretiens communication policy to Canadians involved shuffling around $200 million in unaccounted money to Montreal ad agencies. I don't see any reason whatsoever for me to admire that or Harper to emulate it.

You seem to keep replying to me as though I'm defending Jean Chretien. I'm not. You're also suggesting that Harper is not the most controlling party leader in the history of this country. It's debatable, sure. However, most analysts have come to that conclusion. Conservatives themselves have even said it was necessary because the media was vilifying him. So you take how terrible the situation was with Chretien, called a friendly dictatorship by Jeffrey Simpson, and you put Harper in that position as the most controlling prime minister we have ever had. It's all bad and it's only getting worse.

[fellowtraveller]

However, most analysts have come to that conclusion.

No, you have come to that conclusion. 'Most analysts' are actually 'all journalists who are miffed that Harper does not lick their sweaty asscrack as they have come to expect".

You seem to keep replying to me as though I'm defending Jean Chretien. I'm not.

You are suggesting that the conduct of the current PM is somehow different than PMs that you like. It is not.

a friendly dictatorship by Jeffrey Simpson,

I have no use for Jeffie, and found nothing friendly about Chretiens dictatorship.

you put Harper in that position as the most controlling prime minister we have ever had.

I did what? Your opinion on 'most controlling' is your opinion, nothing more and without any factual basis, something you criticize others for constantly. Show me specificially how Harper has changed the constitution to make himself one whit more controlling than any other Prime Minister. Then you can explain how he managed to outcontrol numerous majority PMs while having a minority for the last several years.

It's all bad and it's only getting worse.

Paranoid nonsense.

[Smallc]

William it is our turn, restoritive justice has been a failure.

I don't disagree with some of the new laws, but the crime rates that we use don't actually bare that out.

[cybercoma]

I like Chretien.

That has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. I despise Jean Chretien. I actually dislike Chretien more than I dislike Stephen Harper.

I guess we're done having this conversation, since all you're going to do is draw absurd conclusions based on your own presumptions.

[Newfoundlander]

I like Chretien.

That has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum. I despise Jean Chretien. I actually dislike Chretien more than I dislike Stephen Harper.

I guess we're done having this conversation, since all you're going to do is draw absurd conclusions based on your own presumptions.

Chretien is by far one of my favourites.

[cybercoma]

Oh, don't get me wrong. He's one of my favourites too, but not for the reasons a PM should be.

[Smallc]

Oh, don't get me wrong. He's one of my favourites too, but not for the reasons a PM should be.

I don't know about that. As far as a manager goes, he was rather good.

[Newfoundlander]

I don't know about that. As far as a manager goes, he was rather good.

He was fiscally conservative and entertaining!

[Guest Derek L]

Mulcair tooting his own horn?, I wonder if this could be the start of a split within the NDP? When’s the vote going to be? January? February? Or May?

If someone other than Mulcair (not from Quebec)wins the leadership race, will this alienate Quebec voters and the NDP’s Quebec caucus and party members?

[capricorn]

Mulcair tooting his own horn?, I wonder if this could be the start of a split within the NDP? When’s the vote going to be? January? February? Or May?

I get the feeling Mulcair thinks he's got this whole thing wrapped up regardless of who he's up against.

Here something else that is bound to cause rifts in the ranks.

The New Democratic Party is poised to make a historic and likely divisive move next week to terminate the labour movement's special voting rights at party leadership conventions.

---

But Quebec MP Thomas Mulcair, living in a province where the major unions are not affiliated with the NDP, said he doesn't want a return to rules set out in the 2003 leadership contest, won by Layton, which reserved 25% of votes for unions affiliated with the NDP.

"If anybody in labour wants to sell cards on the shop floor, that's one thing. That would be great," Mulcair told Postmedia News.

"In the province of Quebec, we're the most unionized province in Canada. But you don't reserve votes for trade unions, specifically. If members of trade unions want to come and vote, that's fantastic. And if the reality is that trade unions are helping certain candidates to sell cards, that's also fine."

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/canada/looks+ending+special+union+vote+status/5350274/story.html

[Guest Derek L]

I get the feeling Mulcair thinks he's got this whole thing wrapped up regardless of who he's up against.

Here something else that is bound to cause rifts in the ranks.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/canada/looks+ending+special+union+vote+status/5350274/story.html

Hmmm interesting times ahead for the NDP indeed.....

[a.gee]

i feel that paul dewar is the hardest working mp on the hill, and that accounts for something. personally, i would like to see him become leader of the new democrats in the future. however, in the present, should brian topp decided to run for leadership, i would put my support behind him, even though he does not hold a seat in the house... for the most part, he conducts himself better than tom mulcair in front of the cameras

[Newfoundlander]

Looking at the candidates in more detail Mulcair is really the only one cut out to be prime minister, though hopefully it will never happen.

[cybercoma]

I didn't catch the full story this morning, but it seems Brian Topp has thrown his name into the ring and is being backed by Ed Broadbent. It will be interesting to see how the membership votes.

[cybercoma]

And the Tories must be scared to already be starting their smear campaign on him:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-denounce-ndp-frontrunner-brian-topp-as-power-hungry-union-stooge/article2163793/?from=sec431

It seems this will be their MO. The Grits are smart for not picking their leader until closer to the election campaign. As soon as (s)he is selected, the Tories will go to work trying to make that person look bad for years.

[wyly]

Topp and Mulcair seen to be the options, my initial thought would be Mulcair as he a reputation of being a tough nut and maybe that's what they need...Topp is unknown to the public at large we'll have to wait to see if he has the, persona and the balls for the job...a longer run up to the leadership convention should give those voting and canadians in general a better idea of what each is like...both bilingual, both Quebecers...Topp is already making statements as if he was leader I expect the same from Mulcair...

[wyly]

The Grits are smart for not picking their leader until closer to the election campaign. As soon as (s)he is selected, the Tories will go to work trying to make that person look bad for years.

or not smart as there may not be enough time for voters to develop a bond of trust with the new leader, Layton didn't develop the level of trust that he did in a short period...