No Canada? At International EXPO

[William Ashley]

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/269896--no-canada-at-expo-2012-due-to-financial-reasons

Couldn't the Canadian Mission just take a day to the expo or something? Maybe bring a flag staff or something wave it around a bit. You know the team Canada stuff that Chretien did back in the 90's.

It seems small.

In a letter to the Korean embassy in Ottawa, the federal government says it's focusing on domestic priorities that include balancing the budget

Why not see if private businesses will pay, rather than shutting it down outright?

Canada is the only country grouped with "GREECE" (although they probably could use some free Euros to go if they really wanted to, or atleast send someone from the mission to wave a flagstaff. They might need to send security though to avoid being rolled.

Maybe Marine Land would pay, everyone loves Marine Land. Just think of the tourism return. I could see Harper and gang going for that.

St. Kitts and Nevis and Paraguay can afford to go, but Canada can't?

Edited August 24, 2011 by William Ashley

[Socialist in Oil Country]

Harper would cut funding to anything and everything if it meant balancing the budget

[Guest Derek L]

So you're in favour of spending my money on a trade show in Korea? We forked out the cash to go to China last year and Japan a few years before that.....We’re in the red, and Harper promise to balance the budget....Whats the problem?

[Socialist in Oil Country]

So you're in favour of spending my money on a trade show in Korea? We forked out the cash to go to China last year and Japan a few years before that.....We’re in the red, and Harper promise to balance the budget....Whats the problem?

You're OK with him spending a billion of your dollars on the G20 security and shutting down a whole city?

[Cameron]

We didn't go to the one in 2008, where was the outrage then?

[Bonam]

Seriously? Why should we care if Canada went to this?

[Guest Derek L]

You're OK with him spending a billion of your dollars on the G20 security and shutting down a whole city?

The G20 is a meeting of world leaders…….the country/city in which it is held is rotated amongst the members……it was our turn……..

As for the shutting down of the city, well the need for security is obvious……..

Expo is a trade show writ large……..

Tell you what, defund something else (CBC?) to pay for it, and I’ll have no problem.

[Socialist in Oil Country]

The G20 is a meeting of world leaders…….the country/city in which it is held is rotated amongst the members……it was our turn……..

As for the shutting down of the city, well the need for security is obvious……..

Expo is a trade show writ large……..

Tell you what, defund something else (CBC?) to pay for it, and I’ll have no problem.

Here's an idea

Don't spend a BILLION DOLLARS on the security (something other countries have no problem avoiding) and don't hold the summit in the downtown core of the largest city in the country.

There are tons of nice places elsewhere in the country to host said event. Next year, for example, it's being held in Cannes, France. I wonder why they didn't pick the centre of a major world city like Paris or Marseilles? Because they are smart enough to know that it would be a total disaster.

Why the hell put the summit in Toronto? That is almost what we spent on OLYMPIC security

How much money was spent on the fake lake? What, we don't have a good enough lake in this country to serve these foreign heads?

Tony Clement's riding also got a fun and fancy makeover for the G8 in Muskoka, especially considering none of the leaders saw any of it.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Socialist in Oil Country

[Guest Derek L]

Here's an idea

Don't spend a BILLION DOLLARS on the security (something other countries have no problem avoiding) and don't hold the summit in the downtown core of the largest city in the country.

There are tons of nice places elsewhere in the country to host said event. Next year, for example, it's being held in Cannes, France. I wonder why they didn't pick the centre of a major world city like Paris or Marseilles? Because they are smart enough to know that it would be a total disaster.

Why the hell put the summit in Toronto? That is almost what we spent on OLYMPIC security

How much money was spent on the fake lake? What, we don't have a good enough lake in this country to serve these foreign heads?

Tony Clement's riding also got a fun and fancy makeover for the G8 in Muskoka, especially considering none of the leaders saw any of it.

They’ve had them in London, Seoul and Pittsburgh…………Why can’t we use one of our major cities?

What did these countries spend on infrastructure upgrades and security prior to their summits?

How much money do you want to spend on the Korean Expo? If you have concerns with the Harper governments record on summit spending, why would you want him to spend more? At least in southern Ontario, some of the upgrades will benefit Canadian citizens....You want to spend tax dollars to benefit South Korean citizens?

[scribblet]

The total cost for the G8 & G20 was around $664-million, not a billion - too high I agree, but that's old news isn't it, nothing like beating a dead horse. Not to mention we do have to have these meetings, and considering the world problems right now, it might be a good idea if they met more often, it can be done cheaper with fewer attendees. Maybe on an island somewhere...

I agree with not spending the money on an International Expo, on one hand people want the gov't to spend less, on the other hand they want him to spend more, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, and as far as some people go, nothing he does would be right anyway.

If you are really worried about spending, how much does a state funeral for a not-normally-eligible opposition leader cost Canadian taxpayers, would you question that one - bet not.

[Tilter]

They’ve had them in London, Seoul and Pittsburgh…………Why can’t we use one of our major cities?

What did these countries spend on infrastructure upgrades and security prior to their summits?

How much money do you want to spend on the Korean Expo? If you have concerns with the Harper governments record on summit spending, why would you want him to spend more? At least in southern Ontario, some of the upgrades will benefit Canadian citizens....You want to spend tax dollars to benefit South Korean citizens?

a "better yet" idea--- have the G20 held at a mountain resort (the same one every time) accessible only by Chopper, Government officials only, Televised and any interviews done by teleconferencing with the press who could stay home.

[g_bambino]

So you're in favour of spending my money on a trade show in Korea? We forked out the cash to go to China last year and Japan a few years before that.....We’re in the red, and Harper promise to balance the budget....Whats the problem?

Participating in expositions and world fairs isn't mandatory, of course. But, there is a certain value to money spent on soft power. It's just, I imagine, a matter of deciding when and how much it's worth spending.

[PIK]

William, chretien is no longer PM now, harper is, get use to it. Chretien had 13 years, he is gone.

[fellowtraveller]

If you are really worried about spending, how much does a state funeral for a not-normally-eligible opposition leader cost Canadian taxpayers, would you question that one - bet not.

Nah, I'm sure he'd appprove of the expenditure for state funerals for all Opposition leaders...like Preston Manning.

How much does an Expo cost- $50 million or so to provide maple syrup snacks for Koreans in the hope they will buy copper ore from us?

Why not spend the money targetting specific industries in Korea?

[segnosaur]

Here's an idea

Don't spend a BILLION DOLLARS on the security (something other countries have no problem avoiding) and don't hold the summit in the downtown core of the largest city in the country.

A jesus christ on a pogo stick... not this bunk again.

Yes, the summit was expensive, but guess what? all summits are. The G8 summit held roughly a decade earlier (when Chretien was P.M.) had similar costs (when you factored in the length of the conference, the number of attendees, and inflation.)

And the reason the summits in places like the U.S. are so much cheaper is because the U.S. spends more on its military on a daily basis that the added cost of security is minimal. From: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/828308--g20-canada-s-billion-dollar-summit-mystery: Summit expert John Kirton at the U of T, who helped produce the report on summit expenses, says the projected Canadian costs are reasonable....He said the estimated costs for last year’s G20 meetings in Pittsburgh and London do not reflect the higher investment the U.S. and Britain make in day-to-day military security compared with Canada. “There are military bases everywhere in the United States,” he said. “Americans pay for it everyday. It’s billed to the Pentagon.”

There are tons of nice places elsewhere in the country to host said event. Next year, for example, it's being held in Cannes, France. I wonder why they didn't pick the centre of a major world city like Paris or Marseilles? Because they are smart enough to know that it would be a total disaster.

They have to hold the conference in cities that have the facilities to handle it. That means having enough hotels (for the delegations and the media) and airport capacity to handle the influx.

Cannes is a tourist destination. It has a nearby airport and plenty of hotel space.

How much money was spent on the fake lake? What, we don't have a good enough lake in this country to serve these foreign heads?

Actually very little was spent on the lake. (I believe it was only a few thousand.)

There had been early reports that it cost $2 million. However, the 'lake' was actually part of the media center, and the often-quoted price of $2 million was actually for the entire center. The lake was a small part of it, and was basically an 'interior decorating' decision.

Yeah, may sound a bit silly, but unless you wanted everyone to be confined to an empty room, some sort of interior design was necessary.

[Smallc]

And the reason the summits in places like the U.S. are so much cheaper is because the U.S. spends more on its military on a daily basis that the added cost of security is minimal.

Not only that, we're not even sure what they accounted as being part of the summit cost, and what they didn't. It seems that here, we included everything as part of the summit cost.

[segnosaur]

And the reason the summits in places like the U.S. are so much cheaper is because the U.S. spends more on its military on a daily basis that the added cost of security is minimal.

Not only that, we're not even sure what they accounted as being part of the summit cost, and what they didn't. It seems that here, we included everything as part of the summit cost.

That's quote possible too.

Of course, I'm not necessarily discounting the possibility that there was some waste. Its inevitable when you get a project as big as the G8/G20 summit. I just get annoyed when people jump in with the whole "OMG! Billion dollars wasted!" rhetoric. Lets try to actually put some perspective on things, shall we?

[William Ashley]

So you're in favour of spending my money on a trade show in Korea? We forked out the cash to go to China last year and Japan a few years before that.....We’re in the red, and Harper promise to balance the budget....Whats the problem?

That they arn't trying to make a no public purse cost, and they could. I think there are enough private interests, for instance BC that wants to do this on their own. If they actually "TRIED" they could do something, they are showing themselves unable to organize with the business community to present Canada to the world, and that is a failure.

They are misrepresenting Canada as being in financial dire straights - Canada is not Greece. While fiscal prudence is one thing, just saying we can't afford it is inept.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN CANADA WHO WANT IT, and just because they are Liberal doesn't mean it is bad for Canada, they are just being partisan arses. They are too lazy to make it happen.

This doesn't need to be funded on the public dime, and they are just stupid if they can't figure out ways of doing things without taxing people. Non innovative, that is the problem.

Edited August 26, 2011 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

They’ve had them in London, Seoul and Pittsburgh…………Why can’t we use one of our major cities?

What did these countries spend on infrastructure upgrades and security prior to their summits?

How much money do you want to spend on the Korean Expo? If you have concerns with the Harper governments record on summit spending, why would you want him to spend more? At least in southern Ontario, some of the upgrades will benefit Canadian citizens....You want to spend tax dollars to benefit South Korean citizens?

It is gross negligence, and is abetting riot, if there is reasonable prospect of civil disorder arising from an act of government, it is criminal negligence.

There were alternatives that would have caused less civil unrest, and there was no necessity to do so.

It actually has me that they WANTED to beat up the left wing and that's why it was there.. softened things up for the election. Shut up the commies tied them up in court processes, arrested and beat people up, intimidated people, and caused a wave of violence - so as to crack down on protesters, - in part by government operations to "paint" the opposition, as rebel youth and thugs.

---- They did a lot of building for it.. it was WAY too big, you don't need a 100,000 people at a meeting.

Korea made --600 million,, how much did Canada make from it?

Maybe there would be more money for EXPO 2012 if 1 billion wasn't spent to beat up liberals and commies.

March 2011... a year later, report not released.. Sheila leaves as AG.. where is the report?

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/docs/parl_oag_201104_01_e.pdf

Funny how the Olympics is "lumped in" with the g8/g20 security.

Its funny how "estimates" were less than $200 million... and grew to 5x that amount.

Parliamentary approval of funding requests

1.11 Parliament was provided with seven separate funding requests

for security and for organizing and hosting the G8 and G20 summits.

These were included in four different Estimates submitted during 2009

and 2010:

• November 2009—Supplementary Estimates ( 2009–2010: A

request for organizing and hosting the G8 Summit ($45 million);

• March 2010—Supplementary Estimates © 2009–2010: A request

for G8 and G20 policing and security ($179 million) and a separate

request related to accommodations in Toronto ($17 million);

• March 2010—Main Estimates 2010–2011: A request for

additional funding for G8 hosting activities ($96 million),

disclosed mainly under Foreign Affairs and International Trade

IT COST $17 MILLION DOLLARS to give people a place to sleep for a week!!!!

WHY THE HECK ARE TAX PAYERS PAYING FOR PEOPLES LODGINGS?

WHEN PEOPLE GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES, I RECALL MULTI THOUSAND DOLLAR BILLS TO THE TAX PAYERS FOR EXECUTIVE SUITE HOTELS??? why didn't they do what our politicians do?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE MONEY PAYING FOR THE TOURISTS TO COME ARE THEY NOT GOING TO SHOW UP ANYWAY? ITS THEIR JOB ISN'T IT? THEY HAVE TO?

OR DID MORE SHOW UP JUST FOR THE FREE LODGINGS AND BLING PAID FOR BY THE TAX PAYER?

WHY NOT GIVE 100000 CANADIANS A FREE WEEK VACATION? Right they would if they were conservatives.

Why the heck does foreign affairs need an additional $115,000,000 in funding for an event happening in Canada?

-----------------

The bottom line NO, the government shouldn't spend 10 million on a pavilion, but they should put up a tent if it comes to that... or see what public donations come forth or individuals who would like to represent Canada at the pavilion, and a few Canadian flags. (maybe some are left over from the team Canada days.. remember the three R's. 2nd R. Reuse. Or bring the Peace Tower flag over there before giving it away to the person on the list who gets it for free... IT is the Layton half mast flag is it not.. even more significant.

If no one will see it, who cares if it is just an open square with a giant canadian flag in the middle or marine land franchise.

Set up a market there? Maple Syrup, or what have you farmers market the tories would go for that.. nothing beats a farmers market. Maybe a fish market...?

Sell those Canadian Lobster and Salmon. You want to get cost recovery. It is free marketing space for cripes sake.

Get circ de soliel if they are willing to do a high dive act.. the possibilities are endless.

IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME.

come on I'm sure they could come up with something if they really tried on a bare bones budget that would have return

http://www.cirquedusoleil.com/en/jobs/casting/disciplines/sports/diving.aspx

It'd be a tax write off for them.

People might show up to see this and other wonders

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&cp=9&gs_id=q&xhr=t&q=high+dive&pq=high+dive&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1015&bih=803&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

maybe set up a dunk booth for the whole conservative caucus, Canadians might even show up.

(maybe show some cool videos of the new Royal Canadain Navy ships and PORTS BUILDING AND SHIP BUILDING ENDEVOURS!!!

http://www.marinelandcanada.com/

MARINE LAND FRANCHISE IN KOREA!!! WITH CIRC COPERATION!!

THE ROYAL CANADIAN FLYING MARINE CIRCUS! WITH ICECREAM CONES!!! - IN CANADIAN FLAVOURS LIKE MAPLE YUM, BEAVER DEPOSITS AND WHEAT (or perhaps algae, kelp, cod, and dalts)!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expo_2012

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/829048-fish-and-chip-flavoured-ice-cream-launches

Edited August 26, 2011 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

They’ve had them in London, Seoul and Pittsburgh…………Why can’t we use one of our major cities?

What did these countries spend on infrastructure upgrades and security prior to their summits?

How much money do you want to spend on the Korean Expo? If you have concerns with the Harper governments record on summit spending, why would you want him to spend more? At least in southern Ontario, some of the upgrades will benefit Canadian citizens....You want to spend tax dollars to benefit South Korean citizens?

It is gross negligence, and is abetting riot, if there is reasonable prospect of civil disorder arising from an act of government, it is criminal negligence.

There were alternatives that would have caused less civil unrest, and there was no necessity to do so.

It actually has me that they WANTED to beat up the left wing.

Edited August 26, 2011 by William Ashley

[segnosaur]

Its funny how "estimates" were less than $200 million... and grew to 5x that amount.

I don't think the "estimates" for the entire conference were ever less than $200 million. They may have made initial budgetary requests for portions of the conference that were under $200 but that doesn't mean they expected that to be the final price. (I believe the auditor general made the same statement)

IT COST $17 MILLION DOLLARS to give people a place to sleep for a week!!!!

WHY THE HECK ARE TAX PAYERS PAYING FOR PEOPLES LODGINGS?

WHEN PEOPLE GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES, I RECALL MULTI THOUSAND DOLLAR BILLS TO THE TAX PAYERS FOR EXECUTIVE SUITE HOTELS??? why didn't they do what our politicians do?

Ummm... first of all, do you have any proof that Canada payed for its own accomidations at other G8/G20 meetings?

Secondly... there's not a heck of a lot of details in your post, just $17 million for Toronto "accommodation". Its possible that that cost includes things like rental of meeting rooms (not just sleeping areas), and/or places for out-of-town Canadian delegates and security people to sleep. So even if we weren't paying for Obama's hotel room and mini-bar there would be costs involved.

[William Ashley]

I don't think the "estimates" for the entire conference were ever less than $200 million. They may have made initial budgetary requests for portions of the conference that were under $200 but that doesn't mean they expected that to be the final price. (I believe the auditor general made the same statement)

Ummm... first of all, do you have any proof that Canada payed for its own accomidations at other G8/G20 meetings?

Secondly... there's not a heck of a lot of details in your post, just $17 million for Toronto "accommodation". Its possible that that cost includes things like rental of meeting rooms (not just sleeping areas), and/or places for out-of-town Canadian delegates and security people to sleep. So even if we weren't paying for Obama's hotel room and mini-bar there would be costs involved.

Only cause they are stupid.

IT IS THE G8 G20 THE INDUSTRIALIZED RICH NATIONS.. yet they can't set their own budget, is the G8/G20 suddenly a socialist organization.

It was horrible.

I havn't seen a single positive tangible result.

No they could have rented rooms. TOO MANY PEOPLE... getting together a few hundred people is done all the time.

Show me any multinational corporation that had a meeting of VP's and paid $17,000,000 on accommodations for two days.

No the Canadian tax payer should NOT have been on the hook for those costs, and local police and the national security apparatus should have been able to do things with their existing budget. An insecure locality is what drove up the costs.. most of the focus was on attacking protestors...

this is what the g8/g20 has turned into.. beat up the left.

It is utterly negligent and irresponsible for tax payer funds to spend 1/250th of a years taxes on one event.

Edited August 26, 2011 by William Ashley

[Smallc]

The total cost for the G8 & G20 was around $664-million, not a billion

Just curious, where did that number come from?

[segnosaur]

Just curious, where did that number come from?

See: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/06/09/auditor-general-g8-g20-report-harper-clement-muskoka-toronto_n_873746.html

the auditor general says it appears the initially budgeted $1.1 billion for the summits will actually come in around $664 million. That's because poor co-ordination forced departments to over-budget and set up contingency funds that were not needed.

[segnosaur]

Only cause they are stupid.

IT IS THE G8 G20 THE INDUSTRIALIZED RICH NATIONS.. yet they can't set their own budget, is the G8/G20 suddenly a socialist organization.

It was horrible.

Still waiting to see evidence that Canada pays its own way at such summits, or details about what the "accomidation costs" were for.

I havn't seen a single positive tangible result.

Results of the summit...

- Agreements to impose tax on financial services organizations

- Agreement to reduce Debt/GDP ratio

- Free trade agreements made

Also, keep in mind that other summits have produced valuable results:

- 2009 agreement to regulate hedge funds

- Financial aid to struggling economies

These type of meetings DO produce results, even if the Canadian meeting didn't have any major announcements.

Show me any multinational corporation that had a meeting of VP's and paid $17,000,000 on accommodations for two days.

Show me how many multinational corporations require the rather large security accomodations that the summit required.

No the Canadian tax payer should NOT have been on the hook for those costs, and local police and the national security apparatus should have been able to do things with their existing budget.

Not really. I doubt the Toronto police force had only limited resources.

An insecure locality is what drove up the costs..

Ummm... where exactly do you think a "secure locality" is?