recognize palestine

[Rue]

Zionism is not predicated on the dispossession of Arabs.

Israel is.

Ah yes another simplistic rendering of history. There it is. Simple as black and white. Problem is of course the above individual is selective. He forgets the part of history where Jews were dispossessed by Arabs and how Israel is also predicated on returning to land taken wrongfully from them. Ooopsy in the black and white simplistic world of Black Dog, we take snap shots of only those portions of history suitable to our historic script.

The world is one continuous series of one people dispossessing another but in Black Dog's world, only Israel's Jews did this dirty deed. Everyone else comes by their land rights with virgin innocence.

[Bob]

you call for the ethnic cleansing of palestinians from the land they've been living in for centuries.

Maybe not all of them. But definitely many of them. And they're only going to be moved a few kilometres, either way. The Arabs were given about 80% of the British Mandate for Palestine, so let the rest of them join their "brothers and sisters".

It's important to remember that my call for their removal isn't on a whim, it's based on about a century of violence that we've been victimized by from their side. I don't care what someone's last name or religion or skin colour is, what I do care about is whether or not he or she wants to murder me or supports those that do because of MY last name, skin colour, or religion. Coexistence doesn't work with these people, they are highly religious, absolutely opposed to modern ideal of democracy and freedom, and very racist/prejudiced against others (especially us). As I've said many times, there are tens of thousands of good reasons for my position on this issue, and those reasons are buried across Jewish and non-Jewish cemeteries in Israel and abroad.

We cannot live with these people any longer, because they refuse to accept our independence. And the longer we go on and on submitting to the will of outsiders in order to fulfill some sort of perverted social science experiment, the more Jews and and Israelis will die. It's not just us, anyways, as I've already said Islamic/Arabic societies are inferior and violent, but for us it's a reality that in our streets and in our back yard, rather than just something you see on the news when you read about an Islamist suicide bomber outside of an elementary school in Jerusalem. That's how these people are, look at Pakistan, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, Libya, Iran, Iraq, or any other Muslim-majority country. Violence and hatred and backwardness is how they conduct themselves, and we cannot keep acting like idiots pretending that these people are just like everyone else and simply "misunderstood".

The question remains for GostHacked, who is calling for genocide?

[Wild Bill]

At least I am not calling for genocide of a group of people.

Are you referring to those who teach in their schools that children should grow up to kill all the Jews? That the very trees will cry out "There is a Jew behind me! Kill him!"

If that's not a call for genocide then I'm Sweet Daddy Siki...

[Bob]

Ah yes another simplistic rendering of history. There it is. Simple as black and white. Problem is of course the above individual is selective. He forgets the part of history where Jews were dispossessed by Arabs and how Israel is also predicated on returning to land taken wrongfully from them. Ooopsy in the black and white simplistic world of Black Dog, we take snap shots of only those portions of history suitable to our historic script.

The world is one continuous series of one people dispossessing another but in Black Dog's world, only Israel's Jews did this dirty deed. Everyone else comes by their land rights with virgin innocence.

The most important thing to know is that coexistence was offered by the pre-Israel early Zionists. Of course the Arabs rejected this. And the subsequent "dispossession" occurred. It didn't have to be that way, but hey, who can blame a bunch of illiterate and deeply religious Muslim-Arab "farmers" for hating the return of Jewish people to help develop the land into a modern and functioning state? All the leftists in here would've done the same, they would've opposed the construction of hospitals, universities, agricultural projects, homes, etc... The Arabs/Muslims were right to resist the Jewish refugees who brought with them the promise of modernity and a brighter future by engaging in mass murder and pogroms.

Nothing funnier than the "Dances With Wolves" perspective of analysis of the origins of the Israeli-Arab conflict.

[Bob]

Are you referring to those who teach in their schools that children should grow up to kill all the Jews? That the very trees will cry out "There is a Jew behind me! Kill him!"

If that's not a call for genocide then I'm Sweet Daddy Siki...

Here's an organization that monitors hate-education in the "Palestinian" society.

http://www.impact-se.org/

[bud]

Maybe not all of them.

you are calling for the ethnic cleansing of people.

what more is there to discuss?

[Bob]

you are calling for the ethnic cleansing of people.

what more is there to discuss?

I'm saying that what must be done is a separation of us from those who continually murder us. Call it whatever you want. About a million Jews were kicked out of their homes and forced to move thousands of kilometres away to new homes, without justification. Here, I'm saying that the "Palestinians" are not an innocent people, and they should be (largely) removed to live on the other side of the Jordan river.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Bob

[bud]

About a million Jews were kicked out of their homes thousands and forced to move thousands of kilometres to new homes, without justification.

was that okay to do?

[Bob]

was that okay to do?

No, because we were peaceful and productive members of the societies in which we lived. Always have been. We weren't engaging in mass murder campaigns for a century and indoctrinating our children with hatred again Muslims or Arabs. Had we conducted ourselves half as badly as the "Palestinians", we would definitely have deserved mass expulsion.

[Guest American Woman]

Well, when dealing with one of our more delicate posters that is Bob, I felt it was a needed counterbalance to his complete hatred for the filth that seems to reside on the land Israel people think they should own.

I see. So you blame your bias on Bob. Just out of curiosity, what did you blame it on before Bob joined the forum? Or did you actually take responsibility for your own comments/views back then?

No matter what I think .. the Jewish state that is Israel does exist.

Yes, it does. But what you think is what's at issue here. And clearly, while you think that even one Jewish state might be too much, you support an Islamic Palestinian state; yet another Islamic state.

And when people are given a choice and if they chose to go with an Islamic state, wtf is it really to you?

Since I've never said anything about even one Islamic state being too many, I have to wonder why(tf) you are asking that question. I suppose as an attempt to divert, but sorry, not going there....

Or if we give them their own state, are we expeting more planes into buildings??

You tell me - since it's your totally off-topic irrelevant-to-the-discussion off-the-wall question - are you?

[bud]

No, because we were peaceful and productive members of the societies in which we lived. Always have been. We weren't engaging in mass murder campaigns for a century and indoctrinating our children with hatred again Muslims or Arabs. Had we conducted ourselves half as badly as the "Palestinians", we would definitely have deserved mass expulsion.

palestinians are engaged in mass murder campaigns for a century?

tell me, how many israelis have been killed by palestinians in the past 5 years? then tell me how many palestinians have been killed by israelis in the past 5 years.

it's interesting that the usual pro-israeli mass are not condemning you for calling for ethnic cleansing. it goes to show where they stand on this matter.

[Bob]

It's funny how GostHacked is wondering why another Islamic step on Israel's doorstep might be a problem... Apparently GostHacked is oblivious to the reality that anti-Semitism is an essential component of any Islamist society. Does he really not know the hatred of Jews in endemic to conservative Islam? For God's sake, take a few seconds and use Google to check out all the hatred of Jews in the Koran and in today's Islamic societies.

And in a beautiful display of hypocrisy AND ignorance, isn't GostHacked one of those folks who derides Israel for being a "theocracy" (which of course it is not)?

I love how it boils down to this - if they wanna live in an Islamic tyranny that oppresses, murders, or expels all "undesirables" and threatens its neighbours, what business is it of ours? GostHacked is of course half right, because that is indeed the type of society that many "Palestinians" want to build, but of course we can't accept that in our midst. So until the "Palestinian" society reforms itself and becomes a part of modern civilization and not a backward group of barbarians, the status quo will continue and they will require ongoing soft babysitting, otherwise known as a "brutal and dehumanizing occupation".

[Bob]

palestinians are engaged in mass murder campaigns for a century?

tell me, how many israelis have been killed by palestinians in the past 5 years? then tell me how many palestinians have been killed by israelis in the past 5 years.

it's interesting that the usual pro-israeli mass are not condemning you for calling for ethnic cleansing. it goes to show where they stand on this matter.

Ah, so a body is a body regardless of context. So if you attack me with a knife, and I kill you in self-defense with a gun, I'm guilty. Great system of morality you operate with there.

As if the number of dead Jews and Israelis is the relevant question outside of all context (all the attempts, all the plotting, and the resources that need to go to prevention of such acts of terrorism).

I love how the defender is now of equal moral calibre as the would-be-murderer.

[Bob]

palestinians are engaged in mass murder campaigns for a century?

tell me, how many israelis have been killed by palestinians in the past 5 years? then tell me how many palestinians have been killed by israelis in the past 5 years.

it's interesting that the usual pro-israeli mass are not condemning you for calling for ethnic cleansing. it goes to show where they stand on this matter.

They can condemn or not condemn me. It's irrelevant to me. If anyone in Canada or America had to deal with a group of people that causes such murder and harm for so long, and regularly called for the destruction of their societies, "ethnic cleansing" wouldn't be so controversial. These "Palestinians" aren't innocent non-actors who are suffering without responsibility. Look at the disgusting political parties that represent them in the Knesset, and offer material and political support to terrorists. Imagine if we had political groups in Canada that praised Hamas, sent them money, and offered diplomatic support. Imagine an American political party that went to confer with Saddam Hussein, Ahmadinejad, and Kim Jong Il, who enjoyed near universal support from an identifiable group of people in their country.

Expulsion is the only real answer. At a minimum, mass revocation of voting privileges for Arabs/Muslims must be done in Israel. It's the reality of the situation, rather than the fantasy of your mental masturbation while you pretend to advocate for a people of whom you've never met a single member.

[bud]

Ah, so a body is a body regardless of context. So if you attack me with a knife, and I kill you in self-defense with a gun, I'm guilty. Great system of morality you operate with there.

since september 29th, 2000:

124 israeli children have been killed by palestinians

and

1,463 palestinian children have been killed by israelis

link

[Bob]

since september 29th, 2000:

124 israeli children have been killed by palestinians

and

1,463 palestinian children have been killed by israelis

link

Do you have a point?

[Bob]

Not enough dead Israeli children, of course. It's not fair!

Why is the "Palestinian" number in green with the Israeli number in blue? It's like some sort of sick competition...

Edited September 21, 2011 by Bob

[bud]

Expulsion is the only real answer. At a minimum, mass revocation of voting privileges for Arabs/Muslims must be done in Israel.

lol.

stfu, fascist.

i'm done wasting time on you.

[Guest Peeves]

Palestinians are not a distinct group of people. It's a fake subcategory of Arabs (who are overwhelmingly Muslim) created for the political purpose of destroying the Jewish state of Israel. Arabs/Muslims already have more states than you can shake a stick at. They don't need another, and certainly not at the expense of the only Jewish state.

Well said.

See map. These are only the ARAB states. Turkey- Iran etc. not shown.

http://www.iris.org.il/images/arabwld3.gif

Anyone that can accept the Hamas charter in good conscience and with that as a reference point, is likely to be both anti-Israel and anti Semitic. I say that with good reason, but 'you' (generic), need to read the 'Charter" to really appreciate the depth of hate for the legitimate state, the only state of Jews.

The Arabs don't accept Israel with any borders. Those as Hamas never will. They don't want another Arab state, they demand only one less Jewish state.

Surely the intent of the UN is to again condemn Jews,, again today, in states like Egypt in places like Gaza, West bank etc. it is common place to publicly claim Jews use blood in matzoh (blood libel.)

The constant references in Arab state TV, to the 'Protocols of The Elders Of Zion are to only one end, incite hatred for Jews and Israel.

... and the zealots terrorism tactic attacking innocents Muslims for the most part, world wide damns jihad and the likes of Hamas. Hamas kills not only Jews, but Israeli Arabs, Christians and even members of Fatah.

20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs.

Those Arabs, that promote hate, murder, terrorism and that deny Israel ???? 'you' (generic), think deserve a state? To do what? fire more thousands of rockets at Israeli citizens? Broadcast more blood libel?

When Hamas and Fatah, and the Israels ARAB neighbors (see link to map earlier), accept Israel with secure borders, as a Jewish state, as having the rights accorded any other state, then and only then will the so called Palestinians deserve a state.

To expect any rational country to give the Arabs another state with borders and rights without their accepting Israel, is insane. Should the UN do so with no real legitimate authority, then we shall see the countries that are willing to accept one 'right' without the other. That's generally considered bigoted, racist and biased. But why would we expect less from the UN.

I dispute anyone's having a credible opinion on this topic unless they understand the Hamas goal, the Hamas charter.

It's provided here for you here, with one (only of many), excerpt. Read and learn, then speak.

http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html

Article Twenty-Two: The Powers which Support the Enemy

The enemies have been scheming for a long time, and they have consolidated their schemes, in order to achieve what they have achieved. They took advantage of key elements in unfolding events, and accumulated a huge and influential material wealth which they put to the service of implementing their dream. This wealth [permitted them to] take over control of the world media such as news agencies, the press, publication houses, broadcasting and the like. [They also used this] wealth to stir revolutions in various parts of the globe in order to fulfill their interests and pick the fruits. They stood behind the French and the Communist Revolutions and behind most of the revolutions we hear about here and there. They also used the money to establish clandestine organizations which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies and carry out Zionist interests. Such organizations are: the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, Lions Clubs, B’nai B’rith and the like. All of them are destructive spying organizations. They also used the money to take over control of the Imperialist states and made them colonize many countries in order to exploit the wealth of those countries and spread their corruption therein. As regards local and world wars, it has come to pass and no one objects, that they stood behind World War I, so as to wipe out the Islamic Caliphate. They collected material gains and took control of many sources of wealth. They obtained the Balfour Declaration and established the League of Nations in order to rule the world by means of that organization. They also stood behind World War II, where they collected immense benefits from trading with war materials and prepared for the establishment of their state. They inspired the establishment of the United Nations and the Security Council to replace the League of Nations, in order to rule the world by their intermediary. There was no war that broke out anywhere without their fingerprints on it: “…As often as they light a fire for war, Allah extinguishes it. Their efforts are for corruption in the land and Allah loves not corrupters.” Sura V (Al-Ma’ida—the Tablespread), verse 64 The forces of Imperialism in both the Capitalist West and the Communist East support the enemy with all their might, in material and human terms, taking turns between themselves. When Islam appears, all the forces of Unbelief unite to confront it, because the Community of Unbelief is one. “Oh ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own folk, who would spare no pain to ruin you. Hatred is revealed by [the utterance of] their mouth, but that which their breasts hide is greater. We have made plain for you the revelations if you will understand.” Sura III, (Al-Imran), verse 118 It is not in vain that the verse ends with God’s saying: “If you will understand.”

[jacee]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903791504576588760450245004.html#project%3DSLIDESHOW08%26s%3DSB10001424053111904194604576583224238993748%26articleTabs%3Darticle

The occupation is racing against time to redraw the borders on our land according to what it wants and to impose a fait accompli on the ground," Mr. Abbas said

Mr. Netanyahu followed Mr. Abbas in addressing the General Assembly and directly challenged his narrative on the nature of the Mideast conflict. He said that the Palestinian refusal to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, rather than any settlement activity, was the primary motivator for the conflict."

...the Palestinians are also considering presenting a resolution to the U.N. General Assembly that would give the Palestinian Authority advanced standing at the U.N. and allow it to join such bodies as the International Criminal Court and the U.N. Human Rights Committee. Israeli officials worry the Palestinians could use these forms to charge Israel military officials with war crimes

I continue to wonder why, with a two state solution on the table, Israel wants Palestine to recognize it as a Jewish state. To me, the nature of its state is an internal Israeli matter and an unnecessary stumbling block to peace. At the same time, though, being a Jewish state doesn't mean Arabs can't live there, as they do already. I'm not sure how the Israeli settlements are "a result" of the problem either.

I think approaching the UN this way provides more hope of solutions than closed talks.

[Guest American Woman]

I continue to wonder why, with a two state solution on the table, Israel wants Palestine to recognize it as a Jewish state. To me, the nature of its state is an internal Israeli matter and an unnecessary stumbling block to peace.

While to me, not recognizing Israel as a Jewish state - since that's what it is - is an unnecessary stumbling block to peace. Why the refusal to recognize it as such?

[wyly]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903791504576588760450245004.html#project%3DSLIDESHOW08%26s%3DSB10001424053111904194604576583224238993748%26articleTabs%3Darticle

I continue to wonder why, with a two state solution on the table, Israel wants Palestine to recognize it as a Jewish state. To me, the nature of its state is an internal Israeli matter and an unnecessary stumbling block to peace. At the same time, though, being a Jewish state doesn't mean Arabs can't live there, as they do already. I'm not sure how the Israeli settlements are "a result" of the problem either.

I think approaching the UN this way provides more hope of solutions than closed talks.

ahh but giving recognition of being a "jewish" state legitimizes racist israeli immigration policies and thereby destroying the palestinian demand for a right of return for refuges that were ethnically cleansed from israel...as long as you're even the tiniest bit jewish you could probably immigrate to israel but if you're a palestinian who was actual a former resident of israel/palestine, forget it...as for being compensated for stolen homes, farms or businesses :lol:

[Guest American Woman]

ahh but giving recognition of being a "jewish" state legitimizes racist israeli immigration policies....

Exactly. And we all know that "racist immigration policies" should only be condoned/legitimized in Islamic states, eh?

[Bob]

ahh but giving recognition of being a "jewish" state legitimizes racist israeli immigration policies and thereby destroying the palestinian demand for a right of return for refuges that were ethnically cleansed from israel...as long as you're even the tiniest bit jewish you could probably immigrate to israel but if you're a palestinian who was actual a former resident of israel/palestine, forget it...as for being compensated for stolen homes, farms or businesses :lol:

Just in case anyone hasn't yet realized it, wyly explicitly opposes Jewish statehood and nationalism. In his perverted and sick world, we don't have a right to our own self-determination and independence via statehood. That's why the beautiful Law of Return, which enshrines every Jewish person's birthright to make Israel his or her home if he so chooses, is a "racist" immigration policy. It's funny how the most racist and hate-filled societies (Islamic-Arabic societies) are made into the victims of racism in this upside-down world portrayed by the likes of wyly.

Of course, "Palestinian" laws that make selling property to a Jewish person punishable by death are no problem. Not that it really matters, no sane Jewish person would ever live in a "Palestinian"-administered and occupied territory, but the law is indicative of what kind of people we're dealing with.

[wyly]

Just in case anyone hasn't yet realized it, wyly explicitly opposes Jewish statehood and nationalism. In his perverted and sick world, we don't have a right to our own self-determination and independence via statehood. That's why the beautiful Law of Return, which enshrines every Jewish person's birthright to make Israel his or her home if he so chooses, is a "racist" immigration policy. It's funny how the most racist and hate-filled societies (Islamic-Arabic societies) are made into the victims of racism in this upside-down world portrayed by the likes of wyly.

perverted and sick is you trying to justify racism..."self-determination and nationalism" ya like what was denied the palestinians by the british and zionists, palestinians aided the british in the liberation of palestine by driving out the ottomans in ww1 only to see their land carved up and given away by the UN, then UN stood by watching as the zionists began their campaign of ethnic cleansing...where was your cherished self-determination 1948? oh that's right the "right of self-determination" doesn't apply to the filth and rats that are palestinians...

jewish birthright oh ya, a jew that hasn't set foot in palestine such as Ethiopian jews have the racial superiority that trumps those of Palestinians actually born in palestine and whose ancestors have been there for thousands of years as well...your Jewish birthright claims are sounding familiarly ubermensch, eww the irony...

and if being in palestine in the ancient past is the standard for immigration another 4-5 billion people are then qualified as well, my european ancestors passed through some 70K years ago and likely before your ancestors so I should have immigration rights as well...

then there is the irony of israel pretending to be a civilized democratic state just like the other western nations not like those filthy rat arab neighbours, but then israel immigration by bob's own admission is as racist as any other...you are exactly what you claim not to be,

Edited September 24, 2011 by wyly