Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) TORONTO - More than 60% of Ontarians wish they could pop into their local variety store to pick up a six-pack of beer or a bottle of wine, according to a new Angus Reid poll.But MADD Canada's chief executive said Ontarians may not like what they wish for when they see the price and the impact on drunk driving, not to mention the lost government revenues. And former Ontario premier David Peterson, whose minority government introduced legislation for such an idea but lost the vote, said the poll is unlikely to sway politicians or the public. Most respondents said the time has come for more options when it comes to buying booze, currently sold mostly at The Beer Store and LCBO. "Ontario voters are simply asking for more convenience, like being able to pick up some beer for their barbecue on Canada Day. That's not a lot to ask," said Dave Bryans, president of the Ontario Convenience Store Association, which commissioned the poll. The price of alcohol in this province is a crime. And the fact that we have to pay to fund these lavish LicBo's and hear ads on the radio every half an hour telling us that $2 cans of imported beers and $25 bottle's of rum are actual deals. It's obvious that a vast majority of Ontario agree that we are being totally ripped off. This has nothing to do "Social Responsibility" and everything to do with lining the pockets of the provincial government. At the very least they shouldn't treat people in the province like kids and allow us to purchase beer on the Mac's Milk across the street. Heck they can sell Tobacco! You can't even advertise Tobacco in Ontario. It's beyond me why Tim Hudak hasn't jumped on this bandwagon already. Edited July 28, 2011 by Boges Quote
Shwa Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 The price of alcohol in this province is a crime. And the fact that we have to pay to fund these lavish LicBo's and hear ads on the radio every half an hour telling us that $2 cans of imported beers and $25 bottle's of rum are actual deals.No one is forcing you to drink alcohol. Save money and don't drink. It's obvious that a vast majority of Ontario agree that we are being totally ripped off. 60% is now considered a "vast majority?" I didn't get that memo. This has nothing to do "Social Responsibility" and everything to do with lining the pockets of the provincial government. Not bad eh? Lining the pockets of the provincial government so they can, you know, keep hospitals running, build and maintain roads, educate children... Actually Quebec sells beer, wine and cider in their corner stores and other than the transfer payments, it is working out fine for them. At the very least they shouldn't treat people in the province like kids and allow us to purchase beer on the Mac's Milk across the street. Heck they can sell Tobacco! You can't even advertise Tobacco in Ontario. If you get the right Mac's you could probably even buy pot. It's beyond me why Tim Hudak hasn't jumped on this bandwagon already. You saw this part of your quote right? "...said the poll is unlikely to sway politicians or the public." I think the author was serious about that. Quote
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 Yeah 60% in any election will probably get you a huge majority. So you justify any tax by saying it funds hospitals? I doubt Quebec is in the shits because you can buy beer anywhere. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with their stagnant growth and bloated public service. Don't they have $7 daycare there? In the Sun today a columnist said that Licbo pays $5 to buy a bottle of liqour they sell for $25. I bet the mob doesn't even have a Vig that high. Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 The price of alcohol in this province is a crime. And the fact that we have to pay to fund these lavish LicBo's and hear ads on the radio every half an hour telling us that $2 cans of imported beers and $25 bottle's of rum are actual deals. The LCBO's mark up on a bottle of spirits or wine are within the normal range....whether those items are sold in the LCBO, or elsewhere, the difference will be minimal. What drives the price higher are federal excise taxes and provincial taxes on spirits. Secondly, the survey was not about buying spirits but about beer and wine. It's obvious that a vast majority of Ontario agree that we are being totally ripped off. No. The survey was not about pricing but about convenience. This has nothing to do "Social Responsibility" and everything to do with lining the pockets of the provincial government. Incorrect. The Province does not own the Brewers retail and no matter where wine is sold on the retail level, the province still collects their 55 cents per litre and 6 to 16% on the price of wine. It's beyond me why Tim Hudak hasn't jumped on this bandwagon already. I'm guessing it is because he isn't a total moron Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Topaz Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 My guess that the 40% are the drinkers under 40 and mostly males. I've seen too many bad things happen when booze, especially beer when its abused. One time, I was ran off the road by two guys, coming from a bar and so so drunk the one guy walked on a broken leg. Keep in were its sold now and is controlled. The difference between smokes and booze is booze can affect other people instantly the drivers get behind the wheel and drives, smoking takes longer. Quote
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 My guess that the 40% are the drinkers under 40 and mostly males. I've seen too many bad things happen when booze, especially beer when its abused. One time, I was ran off the road by two guys, coming from a bar and so so drunk the one guy walked on a broken leg. Keep in were its sold now and is controlled. The difference between smokes and booze is booze can affect other people instantly the drivers get behind the wheel and drives, smoking takes longer. It's funny we say Licbo is all about controlling the consumption of alcohol. As if going from $1 a beer to $1.25 a beer makes a huge diff in people's consumption. Yet anyone who listens to radio will hear ads glorifying alcohol use. Of course at a huge mark up. Quote
treehugger Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 It's funny we say Licbo is all about controlling the consumption of alcohol. As if going from $1 a beer to $1.25 a beer makes a huge diff in people's consumption. Yet anyone who listens to radio will hear ads glorifying alcohol use. Of course at a huge mark up. Iam against this idea also,as I can see the selling of booze to underage kids if one place to sell it is the variety store.Just like it is with the selling cigarettes. More breakins to get the booze and I don't want to see it in the grocery stores, they are busy enough when you just want to get out there. Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 Iam against this idea also,as I can see the selling of booze to underage kids if one place to sell it is the variety store.Just like it is with the selling cigarettes. More breakins to get the booze and I don't want to see it in the grocery stores, they are busy enough when you just want to get out there. I think the corner store idea is bad too...I would prefer the Quebec model that allows loblaws and Metro to sell beer along with the corner store. The other disadvantage to corner stores is the lack of selection. They won't have enough space to stock anything other than the top 6 brands....while Loblaws will. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 It's funny we say Licbo is all about controlling the consumption of alcohol. As if going from $1 a beer to $1.25 a beer makes a huge diff in people's consumption. Yet anyone who listens to radio will hear ads glorifying alcohol use. Of course at a huge mark up. Again, this isn't about the LCBO..Brewers Retail is not owned by the governement Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Again, this isn't about the LCBO..Brewers Retail is not owned by the governement Of course it's about the LCBO, it's the only place in the province you can buy most alcohols. An they arbitrarily ban types they don't like. Edited July 28, 2011 by Boges Quote
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) You can buy Beer in 40 oz Bottles at corner stores in Quebec. You can already buy Wine in Grocery Stores in Ontario. Convenience stores have got to great length to ensure that underage people don't get access to tobacco. Edited July 28, 2011 by Boges Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Bullshit. Licbo is a crown corporation. Reading is hard for you? Again, this isn't about the LCBO..Brewers Retail is not owned by the government By the way...wtf is Licbo Edited July 28, 2011 by M.Dancer Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 Reading is hard for you? Again, this isn't about the LCBO..Brewers Retail is not owned by the government By the way...wtf is Licbo I re-read the post and edited. Licbo is slang for LCBO. So you're saying that it's not the Province of Ontario that makes alcohol far more expensive in Ontario than in any other place in Canada? Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 Of course it's about the LCBO, it's the only place in the province you can buy most alcohols. An they arbitrarily ban types they don't like. Great, it is the only place to by spirits. The survey isn't about spirits, it's about beer and wine. ..as i was saying, this isn't about the LCBO Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 So you're saying that it's not the Province of Ontario that makes alcohol far more expensive in Ontario than in any other place in Canada? I'm saying that has nothing to do with the thread you started...nor does the LCBO levy provincial and federal taxes. It doesn't matter who would be selling the $25 bottle of rum, the price would still be the same give or take a dime... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 I'm saying that has nothing to do with the thread you started...nor does the LCBO levy provincial and federal taxes. It doesn't matter who would be selling the $25 bottle of rum, the price would still be the same give or take a dime... BTW according to this article, you're wrong. http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/27/lcbo-could-teach-capone-a-few-tricks On a 750 ml bottle of rye, rum, gin, scotch or vodka the markup is obscene. A chart from distillers, secured by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, reveals a $25 bottle known as a 26er without all of the middlemen and taxation starts out costing the LCBO $5.52.And that includes the distillers’ production, delivery costs and their profit, too. Ontario’s alcohol markup numbers are so staggering no wonder the Ontario government will never give it up. But how does it get to $25? The first ding on that bottle is $3.51 for federal excise. Then the LCBO marks it up $12.72 and there is a 29-cent bottle levy and a nine-cent environmental levy. Now the price of a bottle is $22.12. Next comes the 13% HST — $1.11 for the GST part, then another $1.77 for the PST. It’s almost 400% more than its original cost. Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 So you're saying that it's not the Province of Ontario that makes alcohol far more expensive in Ontario than in any other place in Canada? Which is of course, demonstrably false Ontario- Johnnie Walker Black 750ML $44.95 PEI- Johnnie Walker Black 750ML $44.99 Quebec- Johnnie Walker Black 750ML $45.95 Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 BTW according to this article, you're wrong. http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/27/lcbo-could-teach-capone-a-few-tricks Reading is hard for you! Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) The LCBO's mark up on a bottle of spirits or wine are within the normal range....whether those items are sold in the LCBO, or elsewhere, the difference will be minimal. What drives the price higher are federal excise taxes and provincial taxes on spirits. Secondly, the survey was not about buying spirits but about beer and wine. You just said that the LCBO isn't at fault for the mark-up they apply to alcohol. According to that article the mark-up is more than twice the the price the LCBO paid for the bottle in the first place. Tax not included. Edited July 28, 2011 by Boges Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 You just said that the LCBO isn't at fault for the mark-up they apply to alcohol. According to that article the mark-up is larger than the price the LCBO paid for the bottle in the first place. Tax not included. Exactly. All the taxes, including the environmental levy are imposed by Ontario, not the LCBO. The mark up would be the same if it was sold anywhere else....that how businesses make money...in fact, go to a restaurant and ask what the mark up is on a pint of beer....300-600% Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 You just said that the LCBO isn't at fault for the mark-up they apply to alcohol. Exactly. Their mark up is not dissimilar to any outlet, anywhere...the difference between Ontario and Connecticut are the taxes.... And again, this has nothing to do with the survey or your erroneous assumptions about why people are in favour of corner store beer sales. There is a pattern in your thinking that is familiar, you are Mr Canada are you? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Exactly. Their mark up is not dissimilar to any outlet, anywhere...the difference between Ontario and Connecticut are the taxes.... And again, this has nothing to do with the survey or your erroneous assumptions about why people are in favour of corner store beer sales. There is a pattern in your thinking that is familiar, you are Mr Canada are you? So if they allowed competition, by letting other outlets sell alcohol. You think they'd mark-up the price similarly? I doubt it. The LCBO's overhead must be huge considering the fact they pay their employees Union wages, they publish a useless magazine and they advertise on every radio station on the hour. Edited July 28, 2011 by Boges Quote
M.Dancer Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 So if they allowed competition, by letting other outlets sell alcohol. You think they'd mark-up the price similarly? I doubt it. Yes I doubt the mark up would be very different either The LCBO's overhead must be huge considering the fact they pay their employees Union wages, they publish a useless magazine and they advertise on every radio station on the hour. All that amounts to a hill of beans. The magazine is a profit centre....it makes money as well as promoting products which drive sales....and the LCBO itself, despite the costs associated with being one of the largest retailers and distributers of alcohol in North America, is hugely profitable. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) All that amounts to a hill of beans. The magazine is a profit centre....it makes money as well as promoting products which drive sales....and the LCBO itself, despite the costs associated with being one of the largest retailers and distributers of alcohol in North America, is hugely profitable. Because of their huge markups. And because it's the only place in Ontario you can actually buy Liquor. If there was only one place in Ontario that you could purchase say. . . ANYTHING! I'm sure it'd be profitable too. Monopoly FTW! Edited July 28, 2011 by Boges Quote
Boges Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 I enjoy the occasional cigar. I can go to Holy Smokes an outlet in some Loblaws and get screwed on the price of a cuban cigar. Or I can go to a local corner store and pay a reasonable price for a cuban cigar. It's still duty paid. Quote
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