Shwa Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Very interesting site in southern Turkey that appears to be a temple complex created in the neolithic by a hunter-gatherer society. It predates other notable megalithic complexes - the Egyptian pyramids and Stonehenge, by thousands of years. Göbekli Tepe Göbekli Tepe is the oldest human-made finding yet discovered. The site is located on a hilltop, and is comprised of 20 round, (now) subterranean structures (4 of which have been excavated). Each building has a diameter of 10-30 meters, decorated with massive (mostly) T-shaped limestone pillars that are the most striking feature of the site. Each pillar is around 8 feet tall, and weighs up to 7 tons. The limestone slabs were quarried from bedrock pits located around 100 meters from the hilltop, with neolithic workers presumably using flint tools to carve the bedrock. However, no tools have been found at the site or the quarry. That neolithic people with such primitive tools quarried, carved, transported uphill, and erected these massive pillars has astonished the archaeological world, and must have required a staggering amount of manpower and labor. NG Site including photo gallery Edited July 25, 2011 by Shwa Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Gee....I wonder if it was built by "white people"? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonlight Graham Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 That's pretty neat Shaw, thanks for the link! Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Guest American Woman Posted July 24, 2011 Report Posted July 24, 2011 Gee....I wonder if it was built by "white people"? Of course! Who else? --------------- 12,000 years ago. Wow! Would be really something to see in person - truly amazing!! Quote
Shwa Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Posted July 25, 2011 It would neat to visit that place for sure. In looking at some of those relief carvings on those columns/monuments, that is some pretty skilled craftsmanship that likely didn't suddenly appear one day. I would suspect, just from the finished product at that site, there are likely other sites that go back even further. Quote
jbg Posted July 27, 2011 Report Posted July 27, 2011 Of course! Who else? --------------- 12,000 years ago. Wow! Would be really something to see in person - truly amazing!! If it was indeed the Garden of Eden, by G-d. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Keepitsimple Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 There was a very big article in my June National Geographic. An interesting tidbit about Climate Change came to light. Here's what it said: Natufian villages ran into hard times around 10,800 BC when regional temperatures abruptly fell some 12 degrees Farenheit, part of a mini ice age that lasted 1200 years and created much drier conditions across the Fertile Crescent. Just another example of how Climate Change has always been with us. What is unsaid - but obvious - is that after the mini ice-age, the temperatures recovered - yes, warmed - all without the help of CO2. Quote Back to Basics
bloodyminded Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 If it was indeed the Garden of Eden, by G-d. If it was "indeed" the mythical, pre-lapsarian paradise free of carnivores and the human capacity for violence? Seriously? Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Shwa Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 Just another example of how Climate Change has always been with us. What is unsaid - but obvious - is that after the mini ice-age, the temperatures recovered - yes, warmed - all without the help of CO2. Has anyone every asserted that "climate change" has not or ever been with us? The other implication is that after the climate recovered, the region didn't, which might explain why the people abandoned their works at Gobekli Tepe. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 Has anyone every asserted that "climate change" has not or ever been with us? The other implication is that after the climate recovered, the region didn't, which might explain why the people abandoned their works at Gobekli Tepe. Yes - lots of people. Most of the AGW crowd would have you believe that Climate Change is somewhat new - and caused by humans......and we have to "fight Climate Change". They don't like to say that "climate change has always been with us" because it dilutes their apocolyptic predictions. Quote Back to Basics
Remiel Posted July 28, 2011 Report Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) Yes - lots of people. Most of the AGW crowd would have you believe that Climate Change is somewhat new - and caused by humans......and we have to "fight Climate Change". They don't like to say that "climate change has always been with us" because it dilutes their apocolyptic predictions. We are all dying to here your ingenious turn of logic that allows you to derive from the premise " There is natural climate change, " the premise " There is no artificial climate change " . I am sure next you will be telling us that because meteors exist there is no such thing as nuclear bombs. Edited July 28, 2011 by Remiel Quote
Shwa Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Posted July 28, 2011 Yes - lots of people. Most of the AGW crowd would have you believe that Climate Change is somewhat new - and caused by humans......and we have to "fight Climate Change". They don't like to say that "climate change has always been with us" because it dilutes their apocolyptic predictions. Wow! That IS interesting. Well, to be honest, I must be somewhat new to the whole issue since I have never heard anyone ever say that "climate change" had never occurred on earth prior to modern times, or something like that. And even the AGW crowd, at least the ones I know, never made such a ludicrous claim. They must not be indoctrinated enough I suppose. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 Back to the original thread.....Gobekli Tepe was one of the most facinating finds ever. Ever since I was a boy, I was enthralled with Stonehenge which pre-dated the pyramids which started around 2500BC. Now we find that Gobekli Tepe pre-dates Stonehenge by over 7000 years and makes venerable Stonehenge look like child's play. What else have we missed from that 7000 year period that remains to be discovered? Astounding. Quote Back to Basics
Remiel Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 What else have we missed from that 7000 year period that remains to be discovered? Astounding. If nothing else I think we may be missing whatever was used by the folks of that age to practice their carving skills... While it is possible, I am skeptical of the ability of anyone to get bas-relief carving right the first time they do it... I suppose it is also somewhat unlikely that they " went big " on the first try, but it is within the realm of possibility. Quote
Bonam Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 If nothing else I think we may be missing whatever was used by the folks of that age to practice their carving skills... While it is possible, I am skeptical of the ability of anyone to get bas-relief carving right the first time they do it... I suppose it is also somewhat unlikely that they " went big " on the first try, but it is within the realm of possibility. Doubtful, for a site of that magnitude to exist, there certainly must have been other things built before. Quote
Shwa Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Posted July 29, 2011 Doubtful, for a site of that magnitude to exist, there certainly must have been other things built before. I agree, there must be some pre-Gobekli Tepe sites out there somewhere that could likely push things back even more. And this site was deliberately buried in sand, almost to preserve it for some reason or to acknowledge that it had 'died' perhaps? Quote
Bonam Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 I agree, there must be some pre-Gobekli Tepe sites out there somewhere that could likely push things back even more. And this site was deliberately buried in sand, almost to preserve it for some reason or to acknowledge that it had 'died' perhaps? Deliberately buried? Doubtful. Old sites are always buried under something and have to be excavated, it happens naturally, as dust and sand and sediment in the air gets blown around and settles on things. Quote
Shwa Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Posted July 29, 2011 Deliberately buried? Doubtful. Old sites are always buried under something and have to be excavated, it happens naturally, as dust and sand and sediment in the air gets blown around and settles on things. There are several references to a deliberate burial of the site and the sites beneath: http://www.gobeklitepe.info/ The unique method used for the preservation of Gobeklitepe has really been the key to the survival of this amazing site. Whoever built this magnificent monument, made sure of its survival along thousands of years, by simply backfilling the various sites and burying them deep under, by using an incredible amount of material and all these led to an excellent preservation. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) Wow! That IS interesting. Well, to be honest, I must be somewhat new to the whole issue since I have never heard anyone ever say that "climate change" had never occurred on earth prior to modern times, or something like that. And even the AGW crowd, at least the ones I know, never made such a ludicrous claim. They must not be indoctrinated enough I suppose. Keep your eyes peeled. Every couple of days you'll hear some Green hand-wringers demanding that Canada get on board in the fight against Climate Change. Not the fight against that portion of Climate Change that is caused by humans......just the "Fight against Climate Change" as if their IS no natural Climate Change - that humans cause it all. It's a disingenuous ploy that many people are no longer falling for. Edited July 29, 2011 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
bloodyminded Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 Keep your eyes peeled. Every couple of days you'll hear some Green hand-wringers demanding that Canada get on board in the fight against Climate Change. Not the fight against that portion of Climate Change that is caused by humans......just the "Fight against Climate Change" as if their IS no natural Climate Change - that humans cause it all. It's a disingenuous ploy that many people are no longer falling for. No it's not a disingenuous ploy--such massive and overwhelming conspiracy theories notwithstanding (all those Fat Cat scientists and whatnot ); it's shorthand. And understood as such. When we go "to war with Libya," are we specifically at war with the Libyan people? After all, there is no Libya without it's people; that's mostly what "Libya" means. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Guest American Woman Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 Back to the original thread.....Gobekli Tepe was one of the most facinating finds ever. Ever since I was a boy, I was enthralled with Stonehenge which pre-dated the pyramids which started around 2500BC. Now we find that Gobekli Tepe pre-dates Stonehenge by over 7000 years and makes venerable Stonehenge look like child's play. What else have we missed from that 7000 year period that remains to be discovered? Astounding. Though at 6000 BC it's not as old, Petra is just as amazing and beautiful - and another place I'd love to see in person. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 Though at 6000 BC it's not as old, Petra is just as amazing and beautiful - and another place I'd love to see in person. Petra is indeed beautiful - but it was built around 600 BC - "only" 2600 years ago. Gobekli Tepe was built around 9000 BC - 11,000 years ago. Mind boggling actually. Quote Back to Basics
Guest American Woman Posted July 29, 2011 Report Posted July 29, 2011 Petra is indeed beautiful - but it was built around 600 BC - "only" 2600 years ago. Gobekli Tepe was built around 9000 BC - 11,000 years ago. Mind boggling actually. I thought it was older than that. I didn't reread my wiki link before posting it, and evidently I inadvertently added a zero to the age. Thanks for the correction - I appreciate it. I would love to know how the people built such amazing structures and how long it took. I would love to get a peek at the life of the people, too! It's difficult to comprehend life that long ago - and will life go on as many years again so that some year we will have lived 11,000 years ago and people will feel the same way about us? Would love to have the answer to that! Quote
Shwa Posted July 31, 2011 Author Report Posted July 31, 2011 I thought it was older than that. I didn't reread my wiki link before posting it, and evidently I inadvertently added a zero to the age. Thanks for the correction - I appreciate it. I would love to know how the people built such amazing structures and how long it took. I would love to get a peek at the life of the people, too! It's difficult to comprehend life that long ago - and will life go on as many years again so that some year we will have lived 11,000 years ago and people will feel the same way about us? Would love to have the answer to that! Well I figure that I have spent the better part of 25 years going tap-tap-tap on a computer. Replace the keyboard with a hammer and chisel and I could see how someone could do something pretty amazing over a lifetime. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted July 31, 2011 Report Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) Well I figure that I have spent the better part of 25 years going tap-tap-tap on a computer. Replace the keyboard with a hammer and chisel and I could see how someone could do something pretty amazing over a lifetime. How long was a lifetime back then? And how much of their lifetime was spent just on survival? And what tools did they have? You have the computer to tap-tap-tap away on, and all that involves physically is sitting on your butt, as you have all the modern-day conveniences, including running to the store for all of your food and clothing needs - not to mention indoor plumbing and central heat. I can't believe you're comparing yourself, your lifetime - with all the medical and technological and creature comfort advances we've made even in the past 200 years - with people who lived 9,000-11,000 years ago. Edited July 31, 2011 by American Woman Quote
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