bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 That's no excuse for not owning up to the messes that resulted when so-called nations like Libya were fabricated - cobbled together out of disparate conflicted people's at the self-interested whim of distant governments that should have known better. You mean...like....ummm...the way Canada was "fabricated"? Seems to have worked out well enough. The whirlwind we're now reaping as a result is actually a serious deficit of goodwill, a heinous form of inter-generational theft really - given how our planet's economy and the ecosystem's the economy is floating on are labouring away just to keep from collapsing completely the timing couldn't be worse. The timing is perfect. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 You mean...like....ummm...the way Canada was "fabricated"? Seems to have worked out well enough. And it's still under construction if the settlement of First Nations treaties in my region are anything to go by. The timing is perfect. No kidding, given how the nature of these treaties and the local autonomy they confer with regards to land use planning and development are manifesting themselves in my region. It's probably not going to take too long before non-native rural people's start thinking about renegotiating their relationship with their senior governments too. Change will always be a real biatch I guess. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 ....Change will always be a real biatch I guess. Now you're wising up...did you think nation state development is frozen in time to suit your own sensibilities about fairness and "justice"? This is just another period in history that will be recorded just as it was in the past. Enjoy your turn on the ride. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 Now you're wising up...did you think nation state development is frozen in time to suit your own sensibilities about fairness and "justice"? Never, not even in a million years. What possible reason would you have for thinking otherwise, after so many years and posts? Enjoy your turn on the ride. Look forward to my turn you mean. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Battletoads Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 Which party isn't? The cons seem most likely to waste time with these 'events'. Just ask Tony "I save a drowning woman" Clement Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 Never, not even in a million years. What possible reason would you have for thinking otherwise, after so many years and posts? That was my question to you....maybe you think Libya is different from other places? Look forward to my turn you mean. Your turn started years ago...how you enjoy it is up to you...and only you. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 That was my question to you....maybe you think Libya is different from other places? The UN/NATO sure thinks Libya is different. Compared to all the other countries currently going through the same turmoil. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 The UN/NATO sure thinks Libya is different. Compared to all the other countries currently going through the same turmoil. Should we lend support to every uprising, regardless of our ability and danger to do so? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
GostHacked Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 Should we lend support to every uprising, regardless of our ability and danger to do so? Yes, we do it across the board, or not at all. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 Yes, we do it across the board, or not at all. Why? What benefit is there in universality? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
mentalfloss Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 Why? What benefit is there in universality? Because the Rock said so? Quote
eyeball Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Why? What benefit is there in universality? Maintaining Restoring our integrity. Edited June 21, 2011 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
M.Dancer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 Maintaining Restoring our integrity. So if 10 people are drowning, but we can only help 3, we should let 10 drown. Gotcha, the integrity of a fool. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
GostHacked Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 So if 10 people are drowning, but we can only help 3, we should let 10 drown. Gotcha, the integrity of a fool. No it's based on WHO is chosen to be 'saved'. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 No it's based on WHO is chosen to be 'saved'. What is based on? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Should we lend support to every uprising, regardless of our ability and danger to do so? We could have where we knew the root causes for the uprisings are the same. We have known for decades that the effects of colonialism and super-power machinations during the Cold War were festering and threatening to explode in the region. As for your drowning analogy, we should have and probably could have prevented at least 7 out of the 10 you mention by actively standing in the way of the interfering interests that were drowning them. We might as well just offer to help towel off the other three for all the good it'll do now. The damage is done, the lifeguards were asleep. Edited June 21, 2011 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
M.Dancer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 As for your drowning analogy, we should have and probably could have prevented at least 7 out of the 10 you mention by actively standing in the way of the interfering interests that were drowning them. King Knut tried that. So you are retroactively suggesting we should have attacked the USSR for the sake of the arabs? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
eyeball Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 King Knut tried that. So you are retroactively suggesting we should have attacked the USSR for the sake of the arabs? Nope, we should have stood up to the US, Britain, France etc. Allies who clearly should have known better than to fight tyranny with tyranny. The Soviets could have always been counted on to cock up their own act themselves. It really should go without saying that their ideology would have lost the hearts and minds of the Arab's all on it's own. The west simply retarded the earlier development of the Arab Spring. The damage to good will that western democracies destructive action and inaction has caused may well be irreparable especially given the many other deficits to overcome not the least of which include environmental and economic. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
g_bambino Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 That's no excuse for not owning up to the messes that resulted when so-called nations like Libya were fabricated - cobbled together out of disparate conflicted people's at the self-interested whim of distant governments that should have known better. How far back are you extending the blame? The Italians? The Ottomans? The Abbasids? The Romans? Each had their influence over the area. Quote
ToadBrother Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 How far back are you extending the blame? The Italians? The Ottomans? The Abbasids? The Romans? Each had their influence over the area. I'm sure he'll extend it just far enough back so as not to extend the blame beyond some group of Westerners. Quote
g_bambino Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 I'm sure he'll extend it just far enough back so as not to extend the blame beyond some group of Westerners. That's my suspicion as well. But, I wanted to see what answer he'd give, anyway. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 That's my suspicion as well. But, I wanted to see what answer he'd give, anyway. For the record, I place the blame squarely at the hairy feet of homo erectus. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ToadBrother Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 For the record, I place the blame squarely at the hairy feet of homo erectus. Curse that continent-hopping hominid! If only he had bloody well stayed in the Rift Valley, none of this would have happened. Quote
M.Dancer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 The west simply retarded the earlier development of the Arab Spring. What nonsense...we have been nurturing arab spring for decades...unfortunately, arab paternalism, arab fascism and arab hate kept them in winter. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Posted June 21, 2011 I'm sure he'll extend it just far enough back so as not to extend the blame beyond some group of Westerners. Because, you know, no one is ever repsonible for their own cock ups....heck, even the west should use that line..if we could only blame literacy, education and running water... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
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