Canada, youre’ becoming more conservative, Manning says

[Shwa]

Interesting story from the Star:

Canada, youre’ becoming more conservative, Manning says

An interesting story and more interesting perception - insight - from none other than Preston Manning. However, I doubt he means we should readily accept some of the more extreme views present in Con-Canada, but all in all, people are likely sick and tired of elections and wish to conserve their interests for something else.

They said the ideological differences across partisan lines on most big questions of the day have virtually disappeared, the poll found.

“It's not so much that Conservatives have moved to the centre, it's that the centre has become more conservative,” said Gregg.

I don't the latter comment is true though, since most of the policies and programs of the CPC are similar to the LPC days. Then again, what is the centre?

“In short, a unique strain of conservatism — combining free market principles, moderation, incrementalism and social justice — has become mainstream as the ideological 'centre' has shifted to a new conservative orthodoxy.”

Yeah, I guess it could be true...

[Topaz]

I would say only for a little while, then an election will happen and the conservatives will be in the past and some other party will take over and that is how the game of politics goes.

[bjre]

I would say only for a little while, then an election will happen and the conservatives will be in the past and some other party will take over and that is how the game of politics goes.

Conservative or not, left or right, they are actually the same. Selfish, Tell lies, Take more and more tax dollars for big interest groups, Rob more by make money worth less and less. Use bank as the last means to take away last cent from ordinary people to make sure they have to still work hard same as slaves.

[g_bambino]

Conservative or not, left or right, they are actually the same. Selfish, Tell lies, Take more and more tax dollars for big interest groups...

You have something better?

[bjre]

You have something better?

Dismiss CAS, improve the education system, make "help others" as the most important skill in the curriculum, so that after many years, Canada can have some politicians that can understand and think of and willing to help and take care of ordinary people. Those ordinary people are actually the source of all wealth, if not count the wealth robbed from other nations.

When there are only evil selfish politicians, no matter what is the system, democracy or not, situation can only be worse and worse. Because all they think is take and take until nothing will be available, so that they have to import immigrants, so that more people can be robbed from, and introduce new problems at the same time.

[g_bambino]

mprove the education system, make "help others" as the most important skill in the curriculum, so that after many years, Canada can have some politicians that can understand and think of and willing to help and take care of ordinary people.

All noble and desirable. However, this won't guarantee that there will never be lying and selfish politicians; there always have been and always will be; hence, we've built our systems of governance so as to curb as best as possible the selfish desires of leaders. Teaching people to be nice simply isn't enough.

[Keepitsimple]

Common sense - of course the center has moved. Almost all New Canadians come from countries that are more Conservative by nature and all things being equal, they should gravitate towards the Conservatives or at worst, the right wing of the OLD Liberal Party. The problem is that for years the Liberals had the advantage of being the Paternal Shepherd of unfettered open door immigration that cast the Liberals as good guys and Conservatives as the "other" guys. Add to that the implosion of the Progressive Conservatives followed by years of reconciliation followed by Liberal "scary, scary" tactics - and the Conservatives were constantly fighting an uphill battle. With Harper's moderate leadership and Jason Kenney's outreach programs, the Conservatives have incrementally increased their share of the vote in each of the past four elections......and there are positive signs that this incrementalism will continue. As each day passes, people become more and more comfortable with a Conservative government. It's a snowball going downhill.

[cybercoma]

Conservatives are funny. On one hand immigrants come from more conservative countries, so of course they're going to be politically conservative. On the other, immigrants are leeching off the system and have a socialist political agenda so they can rob hard-working Canadians and live like kings.

[RNG]

Everyone being really nice to each other, and spending all their time helping each other is such a "pie in the sky",warm fuzzies concept. Except someone has to create real things for any wealth to be created. And if the majority spend their time on warm fuzzies and only a few create things, we will be freezing in the dark if we don't starve first.

[fellowtraveller]

Common sense - of course the center has moved.

Yet in your own post you ackowledge that the Tories have moved to the center

With Harper's moderate leadership and Jason Kenney's outreach programs

And that is what Canadians have detected- not themselves changing in any way because we all tend to see the sun revolving around us, , but the Tories being perceived as having moderated their less popular positions. And the evidence is that they have: economically spending like drunken Liberals on one hand and drop anything resembling a controversy on the social policy side.

The Liberals have nowhere to go at all.

The NDP could profit by moving to the center too, but have so far in their history have refused.

[RNG]

And the evidence is that they have: economically spending like drunken Liberals on one hand and drop anything resembling a controversy on the social policy side.

I think my all-time favourite Ronald Reagan quote is when he said (IIRC) "saying the government spends like drunken sailors is an insult to drunken sailors. At least they are spending their own money."

But drunken Liberals? There's a scary thought.

[bjre]

Conservatives are funny. On one hand immigrants come from more conservative countries, so of course they're going to be politically conservative. On the other, immigrants are leeching off the system and have a socialist political agenda so they can rob hard-working Canadians and live like kings.

It is not the immigrants rob the hard-working Canadians, most of the money goes to the various service people that in name of "help" immigrants, for example "LINC", and many others, and other "services" such as CAS, and the monopoly health system, if allow immigrants see a immigrant doctor and abolish the doctor license, so that competition is possible, the service cost will go down significantly.

It is the law, no any other things rob the hard-working Canadians including immigrants.

Who make those laws, politicians, who help big interest groups represented by lobbies make big money.

[Saipan]

However, I doubt he means we should readily accept some of the more extreme views present in Con-Canada

Like for example......

[Sandy MacNab]

I think my all-time favourite Ronald Reagan quote is when he said (IIRC) "saying the government spends like drunken sailors is an insult to drunken sailors. At least they are spending their own money."

But drunken Liberals? There's a scary thought.

Holy shit, I find "Liberal" terrifying all by itself.

[August1991]

Here's a link to the original Manning report.

In my view, this is the key quote:

A large portion of the electorate has become seriously disengaged from political parties, leaders, and elections.

These voters do not believe politicians share their world view; enter public life for the right reasons; or once there, focus on the correct things.

I would say only for a little while, then an election will happen and the conservatives will be in the past and some other party will take over and that is how the game of politics goes.

Topaz, you miss something significant.

While people are generally becoming disengaged from politics and disbelieve politicians, Stephen Harper has increased his popular vote in four elections since 2004 and now holds a majority.

----

I think Manning's survey is picking up two trends: 1) young people in general don't read newspapers and don't follow politics because they are too busy with other things and 2) people in Quebec are fed up of the National Question.

Duceppe's defeat (and even Vegas girl's election) are signs of this. The recent demission of the three PQ MNAs is a desperate attempt to correct this disconnect.

Despite this difficult time for politician's of all stripes, Harper has managed to win more votes at each election.

Edited June 9, 2011 by August1991

[Wild Bill]

Conservatives are funny. On one hand immigrants come from more conservative countries, so of course they're going to be politically conservative. On the other, immigrants are leeching off the system and have a socialist political agenda so they can rob hard-working Canadians and live like kings.

I don't think you are being fair on this point, CC. You seem to have a cartoon, or caricature, of the typical Conservative, who among other things considers all immigrants leeches. This 'toon is real but he only represents a small number of Conservative supporters.

So you admit on one hand that some Conservatives support immigrants for being "like-thinking" and then you drag out your cartoon out of your back pocket and hold it up as if somehow it's of equal weight to the first kind of Tory!

There is no contradiction except in your rigged example, CC. The fact is that relatively few Conservatives hate immigrants the way YOU say they do!

Your arguments always sound so partisan that it can be hard to give them serious consideration. You can start off very calm and then suddenly you paint Conservatives or Harper as some kind of kitten-eating Anti-Christ!

People are just not that simplistic, CC. There are as many overlaps as differences with the average supporter of any party.

[cybercoma]

While people are generally becoming disengaged from politics and disbelieve politicians, Stephen Harper has increased his popular vote in four elections since 2004 and now holds a majority.

Pretty soon only Harper will cast a ballot and he'll get 100% of the vote.

[cybercoma]

I don't think you are being fair on this point, CC. You seem to have a cartoon, or caricature, of the typical Conservative, who among other things considers all immigrants leeches. This 'toon is real but he only represents a small number of Conservative supporters.

So you admit on one hand that some Conservatives support immigrants for being "like-thinking" and then you drag out your cartoon out of your back pocket and hold it up as if somehow it's of equal weight to the first kind of Tory!

There is no contradiction except in your rigged example, CC. The fact is that relatively few Conservatives hate immigrants the way YOU say they do!

Your arguments always sound so partisan that it can be hard to give them serious consideration. You can start off very calm and then suddenly you paint Conservatives or Harper as some kind of kitten-eating Anti-Christ!

People are just not that simplistic, CC. There are as many overlaps as differences with the average supporter of any party.

You're right. I just find it funny (interesting maybe?) that there is so much variation in conservatives.

[August1991]

Pretty soon only Harper will cast a ballot and he'll get 100% of the vote.

People are free to vote (or not) and the vote is secret.

The fact is that Harper (and Obama) have motivated people to vote when we live in an age when people in Western countries are generally disconnected from politicians and politics.

I suspect that Harper's voters are more loyal than Obama's but the future will provide a test of my hypothesis.

[cybercoma]

People are free to vote (or not) and the vote is secret.

The fact is that Harper (and Obama) have motivated people to vote when we live in an age when people in Western countries are generally disconnected from politicians and politics.

I suspect that Harper's voters are more loyal than Obama's but the future will provide a test of my hypothesis.

We've literally had the worst voter turnout in our history since 2006. Harper has motivated people. Motivated them to stay home.

[Smallc]

We've literally had the worst voter turnout in our history since 2006.

Actually, that's happening across the western world.

[cybercoma]

Actually, that's happening across the western world.

Regardless, this is not true:

The fact is that Harper [has] motivated people to vote

[Smallc]

You're right.

[August1991]

We've literally had the worst voter turnout in our history since 2006. Harper has motivated people. Motivated them to stay home.

You don't get it. Who cares about overall numbers.

Harper has consistently motivated his voters to vote, just as Obama did in 2008.

----

In a time with a growing disconnect between voters and politicians, Harper has consistently connected. (Ignatieff didn't. Layton seems to have hit a cord in Quebec.) Obama appears to be a one-hit wonder. Is he? Let's see how this plays out.

[cybercoma]

You don't get it. Who cares about overall numbers.

Harper has consistently motivated his voters to vote, just as Obama did in 2008.

Well that's something completely different altogether. Harper's voters amount to 25% of the voting population. He gets a clear majority of the seats in the House as a result of 25% of the voting population showing up. Like I said, perhaps one day he'll be the only voter and will get 100% of the vote. Obviously that's hyperbole, but there comes point where you have to question the legitimacy of the results.

Also, is it Harper that motivates his voters to vote or is it something else? You're assuming that it's only left-leaning or liberal (not the party) voters staying home. Are liberal voters nowadays more likely, perhaps, to focus their political attention on third sector organizations (NGOs, etc.) rather than elections? Or is it just that there is only a single right-wing option, while the left is still divided in a system that is designed for two parties? There could be a number of reasons for the reduced voter turnout, but the Conservatives still getting their support. The least of which, in my opinion, is Harper himself.