The bravest person in Canada

[Guest American Woman]

A Senate page is not the Governor General and is not the Queen.

Thanks for stating the obvious.

I suppose that next you will be trying to tell us that the head of the RCMP coming out in the favour or a political party has the same significance as that of a beat cop speaking his mind in Vancouver.

What does "significance" have to do with it? Are you saying a less significant person has more of a right to express their views?

[Remiel]

What does "significance" have to do with it? Are you saying a less significant person has more of a right to express their views?

I am saying that there are fewer consequences to a less signficant person stating their views. A Senate page stating her views is a news story. The Queen stating her views is a Constitutional crisis.

[bush_cheney2004]

"What about throwing a pie at the queens face!".

What about it? Certainly a political act with repercussions, right? Would that be more or less "brave"? I'm sure the queen would understand and be a good sport about it, right?

[Guest American Woman]

I am saying that there are fewer consequences to a less signficant person stating their views. A Senate page stating her views is a news story. The Queen stating her views is a Constitutional crisis.

So everyone doesn't have an equal right to state their views, is that it? Because from what I've been reading, we all have that right, and Brigette was just exercising that right - Even though the privilege that allowed her access to the Senate floor included an oath to be non-partisan. "But she had something to say!" is the response. "She can't let an oath keep her from speaking her conscience!" they say. "If someone has something important to say, they should say it," is the feeling of those supporting her.

So I want to know who has this "right" to speak their views in spite of oaths and obligations and who doesn't. I want to know if a nobody has that right, and is heroic for doing so, but someone of significance must keep their mouth shut.

Edited June 6, 2011 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

...So I want to know who has this "right" to speak their views in spite of oaths and obligations and who doesn't. I want to know if a nobody has that right, and is heroic for doing so, but someone of significance must keep their mouth shut.

Don't hurt 'em AW...you are weaving a deadly web!

[Remiel]

So I want to know who has this "right" to speak their views in spite of oaths and obligations and who doesn't. I want to know if a nobody has that right, and is heroic for doing so, but someone of significance must keep their mouth shut.

If the Queen of Canada decides to exercise her freedom of speech, we can terminate her employment as well. It would be rather more momentous an occassion, however.

[dre]

What about it? Certainly a political act with repercussions, right? Would that be more or less "brave"? I'm sure the queen would understand and be a good sport about it, right?

Well that would be a criminal act, against someone that has almost nothing to do with government policies. Sorta like throwing a pie at Ringo because you dont like the Beatles.

Beyond that its just a really dopey analogy with no bearing on what happened in this case.

[Guest American Woman]

If the Queen of Canada decides to exercise her freedom of speech, we can terminate her employment as well. It would be rather more momentous an occassion, however.

The question is - would she be heralded as a hero, the bravest person on the planet, for doing so? Would people be defending her right to do so? Saying that she should speak her mind? Or would it be seen for what it is - a breach of trust, disrespect, and in violation of her position?

If everyone has a right to speak their mind, people should be objecting to the whole 'must not be partisan' requirement; in and of itself it is contrary to the whole 'everyone should speak their mind if they have something to say' concept. Seems to me if what a page has to say is important enough to breach an oath, what someone as important as the queen or the GG has to say would surely be important enough to breach an oath. And should be encouraged, and applauded. Just as those supporting Brigette are saying everyone should speak their mind and they shouldn't let their position stop them. Right?

Edited June 6, 2011 by American Woman

[dre]

So I want to know who has this "right" to speak their views in spite of oaths and obligations and who doesn't. I want to know if a nobody has that right, and is heroic for doing so, but someone of significance must keep their mouth shut.

Everyone can violate their terms of employment, if theyre willing to be subject to the consequences. I think very few people really think this women is a "hero".

[dre]

The question is - would she be heralded as a hero, the bravest person on the planet, for doing so?

Only 1 Canadian that I know of among 30 million is heralding her as a "hero" or the "bravest person on the planet".

If everyone has a right to speak their mind, people should be objecting to the whole 'must not be partisan' requirement; in and of itself it is contrary to the whole 'everyone should speak their mind if they have something to say' concept.

The "must not be partisan" isnt about the rights of the employee, its about the right of the employer to terminate them. It seems reasonable to me that an employer SHOULD be able to terminate an employee that violates their TOE. It also seems reasonable to me that an employee might CHOOSE to violate that TOE resulting in their dismissal.

So yeah... not much going on here.

Edited June 6, 2011 by dre

[bush_cheney2004]

Well that would be a criminal act, against someone that has almost nothing to do with government policies. Sorta like throwing a pie at Ringo because you dont like the Beatles.

Of course, but pursuant to AW's tack, would it be a more or less "brave act". I'm trying to get some benchmarks for this remarkable circumstance that honors a stop sign protest but not a whipped cream pie? Work with me here....

Beyond that its just a really dopey analogy with no bearing on what happened in this case.

OK...you don't have to play if don't wish to.

[Guest American Woman]

Only 1 Canadian that I know of among 30 million is heralding her as a "hero" or the "bravest person on the planet".

Then evidently you didn't read through this whole thread or leave the forum to read any news sites/any other sites to find out what's going on in your own country.

[pegasus]

Only 1 Canadian that I know of among 30 million is heralding her as a "hero" or the "bravest person on the planet".

Unfortunately, this isn't quite true. Some are calling on her to be our next PM

http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/brigette-depape-prime-minister

[dre]

Then evidently you didn't read through this whole thread or leave the forum to read any news sites/any other sites to find out what's going on in your own country.

Well... its more that I dont equate this nothing story with "whats going on in Canada". Its not a very big or important story, and I can only guess that people looking for news sites about it have a LOT more free time than me.

The only thing I find interesting is the outrage, the reasons beyond it, and the fact the fact that real whistleblowers have been subject to the same kind of thing in the past.

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, Michael Moore is ready to hire her straight away.

Michael Moore hearts Brigette DePape - “the best contempt of Parliament ever!”

This will blow a few more wingnut gaskets. Good for Michael Moore for pointing out the facts of our apathetic public participation in voting responsibly. And good for an American to see the good in what DePape did when so much of our media and PINO's have savaged DePape for upsetting the apple cart.

http://letfreedomrain.blogspot.com/2011/06/michael-moore-hearts-brigette-depape.html

Frankly, after watching the entire affair on C-SPAN, it really begs for a Blackadder kind of comic relief, not a stoic stop sign.

[dre]

Unfortunately, this isn't quite true. Some are calling on her to be our next PM

http://rabble.ca/babble/canadian-politics/brigette-depape-prime-minister

Actually it most certainly WAS true. I said "that I know of". I know know of two

I guess you can find a few people that will believe just about anything. But I dont have to view the world through the lense of either the few twits that think this women is the greatest hero in the history of the human race, OR the few other twits that are outraged to their very core about this NOTHING story about NOTHING.

[Guest American Woman]

Well... its more that I dont equate this nothing story with "whats going on in Canada". Its not a very big or important story, and I can only guess that people looking for news sites about it have a LOT more free time than me.

Evidently you had enough time to post repeatedly in this thread about it - and to claim that no one other than WWWTT is calling her a hero. So I'd say it's more like people looking for news sites about it want to actually know what they're talking about before spouting off about it. Fyi, it takes about 2 seconds to type in "Brigette DePape hero" and see how many results come up, so perhaps people doing that don't need as much time as you do to find information about an issue.

The only thing I find interesting is the outrage, the reasons beyond it, and the fact the fact that real whistleblowers have been subject to the same kind of thing in the past.

I find it interesting that you are comparing someone who says they don't like Harper to a whistle blower.

[pegasus]

I'm moving back to Montreal to take care of my ailing mother in a month. Therefore I must quit my job here and find a new one there. This is not a simple task. However, I am now considering options where I could leave my job by causing a media frenzy, therefore a job will be waiting for me when I do move back to Montreal

[Guest American Woman]

I'm moving back to Montreal to take care of my ailing mother in a month. Therefore I must quit my job here and find a new one there. This is not a simple task. However, I am now considering options where I could leave my job by causing a media frenzy, therefore a job will be waiting for me when I do move back to Montreal

Let me just say that it would be very brave of you to do that.

[TimG]

Well... its more that I dont equate this nothing story with "whats going on in Canada". Its not a very big or important story, and I can only guess that people looking for news sites about it have a LOT more free time than me.

Now you are making excuses. There are lots of stories that get the punditry excited that most people dont give a damn about. This is one them. If you find people getting upset at this it is ONLY because they are responding to yahoo claiming she is as hero in the media. If there was no one trying to make a symbol out of her there would be nobody who cared enough to criticized her.

The only thing I find interesting is the outrage, the reasons beyond it, and the fact the fact that real whistleblowers have been subject to the same kind of thing in the past.

What is interesting is your complete blindness. You read through the thread and conclude that people are unfairly attacking the girl. The trouble is you completely ignored all the people calling her a hero which explains the attack. Instead of acknowledging this you up the ante on the hero worship train by associating her with whistle blowers. Edited June 7, 2011 by TimG

[bush_cheney2004]

Point of order please....I would like to go on record as reporting the woman in question is of majority age and clearly a grown woman, not a girl. Accordingly, and at least within the province of liberal Ontario, I look forward to more creative and provocative forms of protest perhaps involving exposed breasts!

[pegasus]

Let me just say that it would be very brave of you to do that.

I'm happy you agree that this is not a selfish act in the least.

[Saipan]

I'm happy you agree that this is not a selfish act in the least.

And I'm happy that you're happy

[ReeferMadness]

Calling for an Arab Spring and civil disobedience sounds like mobs in the street to me. No?

No. She called for a "Canadian version of an Arab Spring". That could easily mean peaceful protests. As others have pointed out here (not that you'd bother to actually read them), many of the Arab protests were peaceful. In all of her media interviews, not once did she mention mobs or violence.

If you can't be bothered to pay attention, do a bit of reading and debate honestly, then stop wasting our fucking time with your inane commentary.

[Scotty]

Like I said... I agree this was a relatively frivalous statement, but society should ENCOURAGE this kind of behavior not discourage it. Otherwise we risk sending the wrong message to real whistle blowers.

We should encourage anarchy? That's what you're suggesting. Imagine if pages did this all the time, jumping in to interrupt question period, perhaps, or to interrupt members talking on bills. Imagine if the messengers and security people joined in.