Topaz Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Tony Clements has started the war that may break out between Federal unions, one being the Public Service Alliance of Canada. To get the Tories out of the financial hole they have made for themselves they are considering cuts programs and cutting jobs. In the Ottawa area alone, 120,000 public servants may have well helped give the Tories their majority and now they are probably going to lose their jobs. I hate to see anyone lose their jobs, but, they are Federal workers and they have to know that the Tories can't be trusted. They know the Tories tried to freeze their wages at one time but were saved by the opposition parties. The press just announced that Harper is the most powerful PM, well, the most hated PM goes along with that if the power goes to your head too. The one union who does have power on their side is the border servants. Just slow the border and Clemnts will have to buckle. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Unions+rattled+Clement+tough+stance+public+service+cuts/4819463/story.html Quote
noahbody Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Clement maintains that his party's position has not changed and that it said during the campaign that it wanted savings to come mainly by not replacing retiring or departing staff.But Clement told the Citizen on Thursday that programs no longer considered effective could be cut entirely and he would not rule out layoffs of public servants. That sounds like a practical, common sense approach. Quote
Scotty Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Tony Clements has started the war that may break out between Federal unions, one being the Public Service Alliance of Canada. To get the Tories out of the financial hole they have made for themselves they are considering cuts programs and cutting jobs. In the Ottawa area alone, 120,000 public servants may have well helped give the Tories their majority and now they are probably going to lose their jobs. I read nothing like that into his words. He stated the obvious with regard to his review, and also said attrition would be used for virtually all reductions. He simply refused to make an absolute, irrevocable commitment to not doing any layoffs whatsoever, which is understandable. That's not the same as suggesting there'll be mass firings, and I regard that as highly unlikely. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Pliny Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 In the Ottawa area alone, 120,000 public servants may have well helped give the Tories their majority and now they are probably going to lose their jobs. That's a funny line. I'm sure you meant to say 1 or 2 public servants may have helped to give the tories their majority - I don't think many more than that would have voted for the Tories. With baby boomers retiring, attrition seems a plausible way to downsize the Federal government. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Evening Star Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 That's a funny line. I'm sure you meant to say 1 or 2 public servants may have helped to give the tories their majority - I don't think many more than that would have voted for the Tories. Huh? Suburban Ottawa went pretty much entirely CPC. Quote
Pliny Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Huh? Suburban Ottawa went pretty much entirely CPC. so did 1 or 2 public servants vote CPC or 120,000? Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Shwa Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 With baby boomers retiring, attrition seems a plausible way to downsize the Federal government. Indeed and this line of thinking has anticipated the boomer attrition for decades, even before Prime Minister Mulroney. One of the driving forces to prepare for this mass attrition has been the automation and centralization of key processing services in the Federal Government. I would hazard a guess that within a decade, perhaps sooner, all Federal Government administative functions are condensed into a single deparment, likely Public Works. Quote
Evening Star Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 so did 1 or 2 public servants vote CPC or 120,000? The latter figure sounds more likely to me. Baird's, Galipeau's, and Poilievre's ridings are all surely heavily populated by public servants, for starters? Quote
Topaz Posted May 21, 2011 Author Report Posted May 21, 2011 Canadians could save piles of money if we got rid of Ottawa and let the provinces have more authority. Just in those golden pensions alone we would save money. Could we? Quote
Evening Star Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Are you literally talking about dissolving the whole federation into 12 independent countries? Quote
Battletoads Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Are you literally talking about dissolving the whole federation into 12 independent countries? I wouldn't mind ditching Alberta and Quebec... Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Jack Weber Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 I wouldn't mind ditching Alberta and Quebec... Well..The land (and everything on it and in it) is ours... SOME of the inhabitants on that land??? Yeah,if they packed it off somewhere else it probably would'nt hurt this country much at all... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Battletoads Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) Well..The land (and everything on it and in it) is ours... SOME of the inhabitants on that land??? Yeah,if they packed it off somewhere else it probably would'nt hurt this country much at all... I'm being a bit facetious, but if the insane ideologies from those parts of the country disappeared I wouldn't shed any tears Edited May 21, 2011 by Battletoads Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Battletoads Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Tony Clements has started the war that may break out between Federal unions, one being the Public Service Alliance of Canada. To get the Tories out of the financial hole they have made for themselves they are considering cuts programs and cutting jobs. In the Ottawa area alone, 120,000 public servants may have well helped give the Tories their majority and now they are probably going to lose their jobs. I hate to see anyone lose their jobs, but, they are Federal workers and they have to know that the Tories can't be trusted. They know the Tories tried to freeze their wages at one time but were saved by the opposition parties. The press just announced that Harper is the most powerful PM, well, the most hated PM goes along with that if the power goes to your head too. The one union who does have power on their side is the border servants. Just slow the border and Clemnts will have to buckle. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Unions+rattled+Clement+tough+stance+public+service+cuts/4819463/story.html Scarey times for Canadians. Will we still have a public service in five years or will we paying many times more for an unaccountable private corporation to do the same job? Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
RNG Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Scarey times for Canadians. Will we still have a public service in five years or will we paying many times more for an unaccountable private corporation to do the same job? How is the public service accountable in any way? Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
CPCFTW Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Why do public service unions even exist? It's not like the governments are going to take advantage of workers and pocket excess profits. Public service unions exist only to extort the canadian taxpayer out of his/her hard earned money. Why are ttc token collectors and litter pickers making $20-30/hr for tgheir unskilled labour? Not only are taxpayers being extorted, jobs are being destroyed by paying ridiculous wages for subpar service. We can hire twice as many people for minimum wage to pick litter and watch people put tokens in a bucket. Or hire the same amount of people and use the savings to upgrade the subway line. Quote
Battletoads Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Why do public service unions even exist? It's not like the governments are going to take advantage of workers and pocket excess profits. They exist to protect workers from the radical ideologies of political parties Public service unions exist only to extort the canadian taxpayer out of his/her hard earned money. I've yet to see any evidence we overpay for the public service. Care to point to another country that provides comparable services to Canada at a far lower rate? (Since we're being extorted I'm expecting to see a massive difference) Why are ttc token collectors and litter pickers making $20-30/hr for tgheir unskilled labour? Not only are taxpayers being extorted, jobs are being destroyed by paying ridiculous wages for subpar service. I'd say you pay that much because your government signed a contract agreeing to pay that much. You Conservative types don't seem to understand how simple processes like these work... Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Scotty Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) Indeed and this line of thinking has anticipated the boomer attrition for decades, even before Prime Minister Mulroney. One of the driving forces to prepare for this mass attrition has been the automation and centralization of key processing services in the Federal Government. Politics works against that. Many departments have had their functions scattered across the country so that each region could "share" in the bounty of well-paid government jobs. ]I would hazard a guess that within a decade, perhaps sooner, all Federal Government administative functions are condensed into a single deparment, likely Public Works. There have been efforts to computerize and centralize administrative functions at the branch level, all, so far as I'm aware, total failures. What happens is that you wind up having higher paid staff doing the job that clerks used to do. And since this combined time spent isn't recorded anywhere this is considered a "cost savings" since you have so many fewer clerks to pay. Of course, the question one might reasonable ask is does it make sense to have people making $70-80-90k a year doing their own photocopies, making their own reservations, filling out their own travel forms, doing their own time entries, etc., instead of $40k per year clerks doing it? Not only do the clerks get paid more but, through repetition, they get far better at it, and so do it much faster. Edited May 21, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Canadians could save piles of money if we got rid of Ottawa and let the provinces have more authority. Just in those golden pensions alone we would save money. Could we? The pay rate and benefits at the provincial level are, so far as I know, just as good as at the federal level. The rates, in case you're wondering, are even better at the municipal level. So you think Dalton McGuinty's government could do things more efficiently than Harper's? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 I wouldn't mind ditching Alberta and Quebec... Right, you hate Alberta because they pay too much money into the federal treasury. I can see that, but why hate Quebec? All they do is consume money and bitch about it? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) I'm being a bit facetious, but if the insane ideologies from those parts of the country disappeared I wouldn't shed any tears Would care to expand on these 'insane' ideologies, and inform us how unique they are to Alberta/Quebec? Because what it sounds like you're really saying is you wish all those people in Canada who don't think like you do would leave. Edited May 21, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 How is the public service accountable in any way? How is NOT accountable in every way? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted May 21, 2011 Report Posted May 21, 2011 Why do public service unions even exist? To bargain on behalf of a group of workers, and to protect those workers against abuses from their managers and employers. It's not like the governments are going to take advantage of workers and pocket excess profits Government is made up of individuals. Those individuals want to look good to higher ups. If they do that in same way which screwed over the lower level employees many would not shed a tear at that. Let me give you an example. A man catches a degenerative disease. His manager is annoyed that he isn't producing as well as he used to, and starts putting pressure on him to leave, to retire, to take long term sick leave. The manager starts calling him out in front of staff, starts accusing him of slacking off, trying to push him out the door. Who do you think is going to stand up for that employee if not the union? Real case, btw. We can hire twice as many people for minimum wage to pick litter and watch people put tokens in a bucket. Or hire the same amount of people and use the savings to upgrade the subway line. Do you really think our society is going to be improved by the governments of the day setting an example to industry that the way they should go is to screw over workers as much as possible, to give them as few benefits and as low a wage as you can possibly get away with? Do you think this type of attitude won't trickle down to you and affect what you get and how you're treated? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Sandy MacNab Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 Right, you hate Alberta because they pay too much money into the federal treasury. I can see that, but why hate Quebec? All they do is consume money and bitch about it? He's just another heart-broken Liberal who can't get over the "totally unfair" results of May 2nd. Quote
Sandy MacNab Posted May 22, 2011 Report Posted May 22, 2011 Would care to expand on these 'insane' ideologies, and inform us how unique they are to Alberta/Quebec? Because what it sounds like you're really saying is you wish all those people in Canada who don't think like you do would leave. From the confines of his (Liberal) rubber room, most everything looks insane. Quote
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