Why Alberta hates the Liberals/Trudeau

kimmy · May 15, 2011

You live in a pretend land where History doesn't matter. Your provinces demanded and rightfully so a Railroad and grain elevators. The East spent Billions giving you those things, we had plenty of food, plenty of money, and plenty of resources. However we wanted a united Canada so we gave you those things so you could grow and develop. Now all you do is whine because you are paying very little on what you realistically owe the East who spent its riches helping you develop.

That's sheer revisionism. Our provinces didn't demand anything. Our provinces didn't even exist. The prairie provinces were just territories. British Columbia, on the other hand, was a going concern, and there was a real possibility of it becoming part of the United States. The biggest factor in building a national railway was fear of American expansion. To prevent British Columbia from joining the United States.

Don't try and tell it like building the railroad was some big act of altruism for prairie-folk who didn't even live here yet.

-k

RNG · May 15, 2011

That's sheer revisionism. Our provinces didn't demand anything. Our provinces didn't even exist. The prairie provinces were just territories. British Columbia, on the other hand, was a going concern, and there was a real possibility of it becoming part of the United States. The biggest factor in building a national railway was fear of American expansion. To prevent British Columbia from joining the United States.

Don't try and tell it like building the railroad was some big act of altruism for prairie-folk who didn't even live here yet.

-k

Thks.

Smallc · May 15, 2011

Thks.

Don't thank her. That undermines your position just as much as punked. Without Canada, there was no Alberta. Without Canada, it's unlikely that Alberta would be the same place that it is today. I'm not saying it would be a bad place, but it wouldn't be the same province. There would have been a different federal government, and a different group of settles. Alberta is part of Canada. It always has been, and it always will be.

Molly · May 15, 2011

The East spent Billions giving you those things, we had plenty of food, plenty of money, and plenty of resources. However we wanted a united Canada so we gave you those things so you could grow and develop.

The Pacific rail line cost $25 million, and 25 million acres of western farmland complete with rights to the coal and petroleum underneath it.

(For perspective, New Brunswick is only 17 million acres. The entirety of all three maritime provinces is only 33 million acres.)

The East did not 'spend billions' giving anybody anything. The East saw an opportunity to profit, and milked it. The East swapped a few billion $ worth of western Canadian real estate to the CPR to gain themselves a rail link to BC, to beat the US to the punch. There's nothing wrong with having done that, but don't expect anyone to grovel in permanent gratitude over it either.

punked · May 15, 2011

That's sheer revisionism. Our provinces didn't demand anything. Our provinces didn't even exist. The prairie provinces were just territories. British Columbia, on the other hand, was a going concern, and there was a real possibility of it becoming part of the United States. The biggest factor in building a national railway was fear of American expansion. To prevent British Columbia from joining the United States.

Don't try and tell it like building the railroad was some big act of altruism for prairie-folk who didn't even live here yet.

-k

People lived there just not a lot of them. Well not a lot of them until the rail road was built that is.

RNG · May 15, 2011

Don't thank her. That undermines your position just as much as punked. Without Canada, there was no Alberta. Without Canada, it's unlikely that Alberta would be the same place that it is today. I'm not saying it would be a bad place, but it wouldn't be the same province. There would have been a different federal government, and a different group of settles. Alberta is part of Canada. It always has been, and it always will be.

An independent Alberta would be a way more viable entity than an independent Quebec. I honestly can't think of a thing that confederation has done for Alberta, but can think of a whole bunch that has hurt us. And Trudeau led that. The concept of "sea to sea to sea" sort of has an emotional tug kind of but not quite. I want Quebec gone, or Alberta gone. Maybe both.

Edited May 15, 2011 by RNG

punked · May 15, 2011

The Pacific rail line cost $25 million, and 25 million acres of western farmland complete with rights to the coal and petroleum underneath it.

(For perspective, New Brunswick is only 17 million acres. The entirety of all three maritime provinces is only 33 million acres.)

The East did not 'spend billions' giving anybody anything. The East saw an opportunity to profit, and milked it. The East swapped a few billion $ worth of western Canadian real estate to the CPR to gain themselves a rail link to BC, to beat the US to the punch. There's nothing wrong with having done that, but don't expect anyone to grovel in permanent gratitude over it either.

And the grain elevators?

RNG · May 15, 2011

And the grain elevators?

Built by western farmers and greedy railroaders. The farmers got screwed.

RNG · May 15, 2011

So you lived in Alberta in in the 1800s then, I'm assuming? And you must be aboriginal. Oh yes, and everything in the US is better. Right.

My grandparents lived there in the 1800's, straight from the Ukraine. But then you probably figure it's OK to screw those Ukes.

Smallc · May 15, 2011

An independent Alberta would be a way more viable entity than an independent Quebec.

And since both are fantasies and probably always will be, it doesn't matter...although, Quebec has oil and gas now too. In a few years, it may not be as clear who would survive and who wouldn't.

I honestly can't think of a thing that confederation has done for Alberta, but can think of a whole bunch that has hurt us.

Then you aren't thinking. That isn't really surpassing though.

As I've said, Alberta owes its existence to this federation. It was created from territory of Canada, it didn't join. Alberta owes the fact that it was settled by the people that it was, to this federation. Without Canada, Alberta would be a very different place. Alberta owes it's wealth to this federation. Why? Because it's the laws of this Canada, that allowed the people of Alberta to benefit first, before all others, from the wealth that Alberta is lucky enough to be sitting on. It is also the peaceful, stable, and well governed federation that Canada is that contributes to this.

The fact that there are good transportation links to markets around the world (something an independent Alberta wouldn't have) and trade agreements that allow access to those markets makes Alberta stronger. Alberta owes many things to Canada, and in turn, Canada owes many things to Alberta. just like Quebec, Alberta is stronger as part of Canada than it ever would be on its own.

The concept of "sea to sea to sea" sort of has an emotional tug kind of but not quite. I want Quebec gone, or Alberta gone. Maybe both.

Or, you know, you could just leave. There's always that. I love this country. I don't want any part of it gone. Each region of this country adds to confederation, in ways that are both measurable and immeasurable. People who boil a country down to simple dollars and cents and nothing else don't really have any idea what this country is really about.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Smallc

Smallc · May 15, 2011

My grandparents lived there in the 1800's, straight from the Ukraine. But then you probably figure it's OK to screw those Ukes.

I figure that you're missing some mental ability. My grandparents (on one side) were also Ukrainian. I don't really care who your grandparents were though, You speak as if Canada invaded your home and took it over, and they've been stealing from you ever since. It's beyond absurd.

Smallc · May 15, 2011

And the grain elevators?

Don't even bother. Too many in the west have some kind of complex, thinking their ignored. I certainly don't feel ignored. I understand that most of the population doesn't live here, and I understand that most programs are done on a per capita basis. Yes, there were a couple of questionable decisions in the past that cost the west, including my province, but those decisions weren't nearly as common as some like to try to make out.

Molly · May 15, 2011

And the grain elevators?

What about them? What grain elevators did the east construct in order to provide an oh-so-generous gift to the west?

RNG · May 15, 2011

What about them? What grain elevators did the east construct in order to provide an oh-so-generous gift to the west?

I already answered them on that. But they have their revisionist history firmly tattooed into their mindset.

Molly · May 15, 2011

I already answered them on that. But they have their revisionist history firmly tattooed into their mindset.

Mmmm. He must have something specific and obscure in mind, because the generalized notion that 'the grain elevators' were built by 'the East' is 'through the looking glass' kind of rediculous.

I'd like to know what he's got in mind.

RNG · May 15, 2011

Mmmm. He must have something specific and obscure in mind, because the generalized notion that 'the grain elevators' were built by 'the East' is 'through the looking glass' kind of rediculous.

I'd like to know what he's got in mind.

Deleted. Violates forum rules. But was damned funny.

Edited May 15, 2011 by RNG

kimmy · May 15, 2011

The grain elevators were some kind of great gift? Weren't most of them operated by private, for-profit enterprises (ie Cargill) or prairie-based co-ops (ie, the various "Wheat Pools")?

-k

dre · May 15, 2011

An independent Alberta would be a way more viable entity than an independent Quebec. I honestly can't think of a thing that confederation has done for Alberta, but can think of a whole bunch that has hurt us. And Trudeau led that. The concept of "sea to sea to sea" sort of has an emotional tug kind of but not quite. I want Quebec gone, or Alberta gone. Maybe both.

An independent Alberta would be a way more viable entity than an independent Quebec.

Well sure... pretty much any morons can get by if theyre born on top of a massive oil deposit during a time of rapidly increasing oil prices :lol: Look at Saudi Arabia or Iran... Im not sure why thats something anyone would brag about. And if the oil runs out, or the price tanks then youre just another Saskatchewan.

You also might want to do a little research into agricultural subsidies to the prairy provinces and the various farm rescue bills throughout the years every time grain prices tank... and the 50 cents per bushel subsidy the government gives Albertan farmers.

And of course the fact that Alberta is a landlocked province that could not even export a single drop of oil without help from ports on the US and Canadian coasts.

Edited May 15, 2011 by dre

kimmy · May 15, 2011

And of course the fact that Alberta is a landlocked province that could not even export a single drop of oil without help from ports on the US and Canadian coasts.

I kinda doubt whether much of the oil that gets piped south ends up heading out to sea.

-k

RNG · May 15, 2011

Well sure... pretty much any morons can get by if theyre born on top of a massive oil deposit during a time of rapidly increasing oil prices Look at Saudi Arabia or Iran... Im not sure why thats something anyone would brag about. And if the oil runs out, or the price tanks then youre just another Saskatchewan.

You also might want to do a little research into agricultural subsidies to the prairy provinces and the various farm rescue bills throughout the years every time grain prices tank... and the 50 cents per bushel subsidy the government gives Albertan farmers.

And of course the fact that Alberta is a landlocked province that could not even export a single drop of oil without help from ports on the US and Canadian coasts.

Are you referring to the wheat board that monopolizes the sale of western grains, but the Ontario and Quebec farmers aren't hampered by the eastern bastards subjugating the western farmer?.

dre · May 15, 2011

I kinda doubt whether much of the oil that gets piped south ends up heading out to sea.

-k

I dunno how much heads out to sea now, but in the last couple of years companies like Sinopec have been spending billions in the oil sand, and gobbling lots of production. Some American multinationals are actually divesting. And Alberta is trying to get a pipeline built so that they can sell oil to development pacific rim nations where consumption is growing the fastest. My guess is that within a decade China will be a majority steakholder.

kimmy · May 15, 2011

Well, everybody likes steak.

-k

August1991 · May 15, 2011

Well, everybody likes steak.
-k

WTF?

Kimmy, I read quickly through this thread and maybe I missed something. In general, I think that you Albertans are rubes.

Albertans vote more innocently than Quebecers.

Edited May 15, 2011 by August1991

kimmy · May 15, 2011

WTF?

re-read the message above mine.

Kimmy, I read quickly through this thread and maybe I missed something. In general, I think that you Albertans are rubes.

Albertans vote more innocently than Quebecers.

How so? How would cagey Quebec voters vote, if they lived in Alberta?

-k

August1991 · May 15, 2011

re-read the message above mine.

Wheat board? Gimme a break.

How so? How would cagey Quebec voters vote, if they lived in Alberta?

I think that there is a perception in Alberta that Quebec voters meet one night, before a federal election, and decide what is best. Quebec - those French guys - they're a conspiracy.

Life does not work so simply.