nittanylionstorm07 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 So the Harper majority is going to have to deal with the Healthcare apocalypse that is going to come in 2014. I can see this easily going very, very badly for them... especially since their opposition is the party that founded universal healthcare in Canada. Let's start a discussion on this. How do you see it playing out? Quote
ToadBrother Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 So the Harper majority is going to have to deal with the Healthcare apocalypse that is going to come in 2014. I can see this easily going very, very badly for them... especially since their opposition is the party that founded universal healthcare in Canada. Let's start a discussion on this. How do you see it playing out? The same way health care always does. It's always right next door to disaster. Quote
Triple M Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 Consevtives will continue to pour billions into a unsustainable system and hope the Provinces deal with the issues. Quote
ninjandrew Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 Consevtives will continue to pour billions into a unsustainable system and hope the Provinces deal with the issues. Is that the major complaint over our healthcare? What exactly is wrong with it?? Quote "Everything in moderation, including moderation." -- Socrates
nittanylionstorm07 Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Posted May 3, 2011 Here's how I see it: This is going to be the penultimate moment for the Harper majority. If they don't take steps towards privatization, they'll alienate the right wing in their party who may threaten to split. If they do take steps towards privatization, they'll alienate the centre that voted for them and shove them off to the NDP. It's a lose/lose situation for Harper. Quote
RNG Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 Pointless to discuss. Say you are making any change to our healthcare and about 80% of the people cry PRIVATIZATION - TWO TIER - THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. Just like in the US when anyone mentions public healthcare and about 80% of the people cry SOCIALISM - DEATH PANELS - THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Triple M Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 Is that the major complaint over our healthcare? What exactly is wrong with it?? We have an aging population and health care cost continue to rise. Health care is continuously eating into government spending each year and the revenue is not growing to sustain other vital programs. Quote
nittanylionstorm07 Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Posted May 3, 2011 Pointless to discuss. Say you are making any change to our healthcare and about 80% of the people cry PRIVATIZATION - TWO TIER - THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. Just like in the US when anyone mentions public healthcare and about 80% of the people cry SOCIALISM - DEATH PANELS - THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. No, it isn't pointless. The healthcare debacle in the United States was one of the main reasons why the democrats lost in 2010... and in Canada, the party in majority power now has a sizeable contingent that want to privatize the healthcare or parts of the healthcare system. Quote
Triple M Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 Here's how I see it: This is going to be the penultimate moment for the Harper majority. If they don't take steps towards privatization, they'll alienate the right wing in their party who may threaten to split. If they do take steps towards privatization, they'll alienate the centre that voted for them and shove them off to the NDP. It's a lose/lose situation for Harper. The CPC is for the Provinces being allowed to experiment on the delivery of care. In this country we already have quite a few private facilities but as long as you are able to gain access with your health card and not a credit card I don't think most Canadians will care. Quote
RNG Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 The CPC is for the Provinces being allowed to experiment on the delivery of care. In this country we already have quite a few private facilities but as long as you are able to gain access with your health card and not a credit card I don't think most Canadians will care. They sure care in Alberta since every time the prov government tried to implement some privately run but publicly funded clinics the unions would mobilize the non-thinkers into mass rebellion. The vindictive rhetoric becomes unbelievable. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
ninjandrew Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 We have an aging population and health care cost continue to rise. Health care is continuously eating into government spending each year and the revenue is not growing to sustain other vital programs. So what would each party likely do to remedy this? Sorry if I ask too many questions, I like to learn. Quote "Everything in moderation, including moderation." -- Socrates
nittanylionstorm07 Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Posted May 3, 2011 They sure care in Alberta since every time the prov government tried to implement some privately run but publicly funded clinics the unions would mobilize the non-thinkers into mass rebellion. The vindictive rhetoric becomes unbelievable. The Wildrose Alliance will be fun to watch when they get into government. Quote
RNG Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 The Wildrose Alliance will be fun to watch when they get into government. One can only hope. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Michael Hardner Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 Is that the major complaint over our healthcare? What exactly is wrong with it?? Expenses increase forever but service is poor and wait times are sometimes unbearable. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Scotty Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 We need to move towards a Western European style health care system. And yes, that includes private for-profit services. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 We need to control costs...unfortunately, no country has managed to do that, whether their system is public, private, or hybrid. There is no real solution right now. We just have to decide how we want to pay for the increases (out of pocket, through insurance premiums, or through taxes). Right now, with the advances in technology and the rise in drug prices, along with the aging population, there isn't much to be done. We can make things more efficient, we can open up more private delivery, but even if that saves some, it will be but a drop in the bucket. Quote
ToadBrother Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 We need to control costs...unfortunately, no country has managed to do that, whether their system is public, private, or hybrid. There is no real solution right now. We just have to decide how we want to pay for the increases (out of pocket, through insurance premiums, or through taxes). Right now, with the advances in technology and the rise in drug prices, along with the aging population, there isn't much to be done. We can make things more efficient, we can open up more private delivery, but even if that saves some, it will be but a drop in the bucket. The solution is to try to keep our heads above water as best we can without utterly undermining health care until the Baby Boom is six feet under. The problem will begin sorting itself out in the next ten to twenty years. Quote
Smallc Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 The solution is to try to keep our heads above water as best we can without utterly undermining health care until the Baby Boom is six feet under. The problem will begin sorting itself out in the next ten to twenty years. I know. My point is that privatizing services or introducing a hybrid system is going to do nothing to control costs. It may lower government expenditures, but the same people are really going to be paying one way or another. Quote
blueblood Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 I know. My point is that privatizing services or introducing a hybrid system is going to do nothing to control costs. It may lower government expenditures, but the same people are really going to be paying one way or another. Stuff costs. I remember getting my wisdom teeth pulled, it cost 500 bucks. Money was tight at that time and I was saving up for a new tv. Well I had to give up the tv because I didn't want a mouth full of pain. Wealthy or more well off people are not going to stand in line for healthcare for themselves or loved ones. Instead of sending them to the states, why not set some up here and use the tax revenue generated to help out the public system. Might help with the doctor/nurses going to the states. Our healthcare system is like forcing millionaires to go to a soup kitchen (yes I know we have advanced healthcare, I'm talking about costs) and a poor person who needs that soup kitchen is going to have to wait his turn. I don't understand why it can work in the education system and not for healthcare. Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Smallc Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 Might help with the doctor/nurses going to the states. We don't have a problem with that anymore. For a system to set up, you need doctors and nurses. Since we already have a shortage, and there is a shortage of health practitioners across the western world, where are these people going to come from? Our healthcare system is like forcing millionaires to go to a soup kitchen (yes I know we have advanced healthcare, I'm talking about costs) and a poor person who needs that soup kitchen is going to have to wait his turn. I don't understand why it can work in the education system and not for healthcare. I'm not opposed to private care in principle (well, I am, but I know some people are going to use it no matter what - it's like my policy on weed and prostitution), but I'm not at all convinced that setting such a system up will be good for the public system. Quote
nittanylionstorm07 Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Posted May 3, 2011 Stuff costs. I remember getting my wisdom teeth pulled, it cost 500 bucks. Money was tight at that time and I was saving up for a new tv. Well I had to give up the tv because I didn't want a mouth full of pain. Wealthy or more well off people are not going to stand in line for healthcare for themselves or loved ones. Instead of sending them to the states, why not set some up here and use the tax revenue generated to help out the public system. Might help with the doctor/nurses going to the states. Our healthcare system is like forcing millionaires to go to a soup kitchen (yes I know we have advanced healthcare, I'm talking about costs) and a poor person who needs that soup kitchen is going to have to wait his turn. I don't understand why it can work in the education system and not for healthcare. I'm jealous. It cost me ~$2000 to get my wisdom teeth pulled. Quote
BornAlbertan Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 Stuff costs. I remember getting my wisdom teeth pulled, it cost 500 bucks. Money was tight at that time and I was saving up for a new tv. Well I had to give up the tv because I didn't want a mouth full of pain. Wealthy or more well off people are not going to stand in line for healthcare for themselves or loved ones. Instead of sending them to the states, why not set some up here and use the tax revenue generated to help out the public system. Might help with the doctor/nurses going to the states. Our healthcare system is like forcing millionaires to go to a soup kitchen (yes I know we have advanced healthcare, I'm talking about costs) and a poor person who needs that soup kitchen is going to have to wait his turn. I don't understand why it can work in the education system and not for healthcare. Because you get people terrified of common sense. People think it is queue jumping...but really, if there are two parallel systems you have two different queues: one that's free and one that costs. Obviously those who can and want to pay for treatment NOW will, so now your line is shorter because people moved themselves out of it, what's the problem? I think it's "misery loves company". Quote
Smallc Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 I'm jealous. It cost me ~$2000 to get my wisdom teeth pulled. it cost me $1300 last year. Quote
blueblood Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 I'm jealous. It cost me ~$2000 to get my wisdom teeth pulled. Inflation... Quote "Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary "Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary Economic Left/Right: 4.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77
Smallc Posted May 3, 2011 Report Posted May 3, 2011 I think it's "misery loves company". No, it's that many of us want to improve the system for everyone. Also, we recognize that despite problems, Canada has pretty good outcomes. Quote
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