Good Faith

[Guest American Woman]

The lie was that only the short form existed. The long form according to these same people never existed. And now all of a sudden it does?

Proof, please.

Even shady is saying it the way it is; the claim, and it was the truth, is that the long form is not produced.

Just one curious thing about the newly released version, is the curling of it on the left side of the document, there is more to it, but only half is showed and made to look like the rest of the background.

And so it continues.

But yeah, it's Americans, and only Americans, who get all hyped up about this kind of thing.

[bloodyminded]

The lie was that only the short form existed. The long form according to these same people never existed. And now all of a sudden it does?

Just one curious thing about the newly released version, is the curling of it on the left side of the document, there is more to it, but only half is showed and made to look like the rest of the background.

This edges pretty close into conspiracy theory, of the "I'm just sayin,'" variety.

Seriously, I have no horse in this race. I'm not an "Obamabot"; I think Bush was at times unfairly maligned, being in most ways fairly usual; and I don't think my opionon of American presidential politics is quite...important. To anyone.

But I think this birther stuff is almost jaw-droppingly comical and ridiculous.

[CANADIEN]

Well, if there was any doubt that Barack HUSSEIN Obama was not born in Hawaii and that all the documents he has produced are forgeries, look no further than the link posted by BC. The imposter declares that he will show the video of his birth. Well... it is does not even show a HUMAN birth. Not only it is a fake, but not even a good one.

The birthers are right! The birthers are right!

Edited May 1, 2011 by CANADIEN

[bloodyminded]

Well, if there was any doubt that back HUSSEIN Obama was not born in Hawaii and that all the documents he has produced are forgeries, look no further than the link posted by BC. The imposter declares that he will show the video of his birth. Well... it is does not even show a HUMAN birth. Not only it is a fake, but not evn a good one.

The birthers are right! The birthers are right!

Oh, wait....his middle name is Hussein? Well, that's an important detail to remember. Thanks for the timely reminder.

[Guest American Woman]

President Obama had a lot of fun with this tonight at the White House Correspondent's Dinner:

He quipped that Michelle Bachmann was born in Canada!

Loved it! Wonder if Trump felt foolish?

[Pliny]

The left is having the most fun with this issue, now why wouldn't they like to keep it and other stupidities, like "Barack is a Muslim", going? They love that smug, arrogant feeling. The MSM can ignore this issue if they like but I notice they don't. It's entertaining, I guess.

I have no faith in Barack Obama and wouldn't trust him a wit. I want proof of everything he claims as fact and I want him held to account on every question, every policy and every statement. I even want the stupid questions addressed to my satisfaction. The left demanded no less of Bush - 911 was an inside job after all. The blind fawning of any President and a display of arrogance from supporters has no bearing on my faith or trust in their word.

[bloodyminded]

The left is having the most fun with this issue, now why wouldn't they like to keep it and other stupidities, like "Barack is a Muslim", going? They love that smug, arrogant feeling.

So, it's "smug and arrogant" to laugh at the demonstrably stupid, paranoid, partisan-soaked screaming meemies who worry about the "socialist non-American Muslim" in the White House?

The left demanded no less of Bush - 911 was an inside job after all.

"The left" never thought 9/11 was an inside job. The paranoid conspiracy theorists--always and forever a heady combination of lefties and righties--like Alex Jones, are the ones who have thought so.

The rest of us never took it at all seriously.

The blind fawning of any President and a display of arrogance from supporters has no bearing on my faith or trust in their word.

You mean Democrats, of course. Certainly not Republicans.

Edited May 1, 2011 by bloodyminded

[CANADIEN]

The left is having the most fun with this issue, now why wouldn't they like to keep it and other stupidities, like "Barack is a Muslim", going? They love that smug, arrogant feeling. The MSM can ignore this issue if they like but I notice they don't. It's entertaining, I guess.

It is indeed, smug and arrogant to make fun of an incredibly stupid line of thought. Well, I am also proud of the fact that I am so smug and arrogant that also laugh at claims that 911 was an insde job and that the Earth is flat. I guess it is better to keep demanding "the proof", then asking again for "the proof" when it has been provided yet once again.

I have no faith in Barack Obama and wouldn't trust him a wit. I want proof of everything he claims as fact and I want him held to account on every question, every policy and every statement. I even want the stupid questions addressed to my satisfaction.

Has this stupid question been answered to your satisfaction?

The left demanded no less of Bush - 911 was an inside job after all

How many proeminent TV or radio commentator has argued, again and again and again, that 911 was an inside job? How many "celebrities" were publicly musing about running for President in 2004 while saying "911 was an inside job"? How many state or federal politician have demanded that Bush come clean about 911?

Edited May 1, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Alan]

Thanks for weighing in and sharing your thoughts everyone. Seems in spite of President Obama's good faith move, here in the States this issue still has two distinct groups, those who believe President Obama, and those who don't. Just hope some of my fellow Republicans realize that attacking him on this issue is counter-productive, and reset their focus upon improving the economy, successfully managing our two wars abroad--Merci Beaucoupe, Oh, Canada for your help--, and shaping policies that enhance the quality of life of the American people. Otherwise, President Obama will be re-elected for four more years.

Safe travels to everyone who ventures out to vote tomorrow...

[Pliny]

So, it's "smug and arrogant" to laugh at the demonstrably stupid, paranoid, partisan-soaked screaming meemies who worry about the "socialist non-American Muslim" in the White House?

Give it a rest. Let's not confuse and distract from the serious issues like huge government spending and growth and keep the stupid issues in the National Enquirer where they belong and not in the headlines where you like them.

"The left" never thought 9/11 was an inside job. The paranoid conspiracy theorists--always and forever a heady combination of lefties and righties--like Alex Jones, are the ones who have thought so.

Or one of your favoirite media types - Michael Moore. The left revelled in Fahrenheit 911, but how soon we forget - or try.

You mean Democrats, of course. Certainly not Republicans.

I mean both. They both have their own stupid paranoid partisan screaming meemies.

[Pliny]

It is indeed, smug and arrogant to make fun of an incredibly stupid line of thought. Well, I am also proud of the fact that I am so smug and arrogant that also laugh at claims that 911 was an insde job and that the Earth is flat. I guess it is better to keep demanding "the proof", then asking again for "the proof" when it has been provided yet once again.

I have the same message for you as I do for the President.. give it a rest. This needs to stay on the fringes and pages of the National Enquirer. It has no place in the mainstream media - where you so proudly like to see it.

[bloodyminded]

Give it a rest. Let's not confuse and distract from the serious issues like huge government spending and growth and keep the stupid issues in the National Enquirer where they belong and not in the headlines where you like them.

What are you talking about? First of all, I scarcely care about any of this, aside from the amusement factor; second of all, it is precisely the birthers et al themselves--the ones you said should remain front and centre with their "stupid" questions--who are keeping this stuff in the headlines.

Notably, Donald Trump (the man who has now claimed that "the world is destroying" America )...he has made it his business to keep this all front and centre, and you're on record defending the Great Man's honour.

I think you want it both ways.

Or one of your favoirite media types - Michael Moore. The left revelled in Fahrenheit 911, but how soon we forget - or try.

Farenheit 911, a fairly shoddy movie in my opinion, made no claims about an "inside job" re 9/11.

And Moore is not one of my favourites; he's one of my least favourites. That is, I don't like him. I don't admire him; I don't generally agree with him.

But I appreciate your inventing opinions for me that I do not hold. It's really awesome.

I mean both. They both have their own stupid paranoid partisan screaming meemies.

Then we have found a point of agreement. But surely we aren't suggesting that this phenomenon is unique to the United States?

[CANADIEN]

I have the same message for you as I do for the President.. give it a rest. This needs to stay on the fringes and pages of the National Enquirer. It has no place in the mainstream media - where you so proudly like to see it.

Isn't the President supposed to answer every question TO YOUR SATISFACTION? Your own words. You should tell the birthers to give it a rest. It is them who keep pushing the issue time and time again.

BTW: has he answered the question to YOUR satisfaction?

[bloodyminded]

Isn't the President supposed to answer every question TO YOUR SATISFACTION? Your own words. You should tell the birthers to give it a rest. It is them who keep pushing the issue time and time again.

Yep...the President should answer every question, no matter how stupid. Unless he does so...after which, "Enough, already, Mr. President! Give it a rest!"

[Pliny]

Isn't the President supposed to answer every question TO YOUR SATISFACTION? Your own words. You should tell the birthers to give it a rest. It is them who keep pushing the issue time and time again.

BTW: has he answered the question to YOUR satisfaction?

In this case, he should answer it so the MSM can leave it behind and doesn't have to constantly bray about it as if it were important.

You know as well as I do that the lib-left media keeps it going otherwise we would only be reading about it where it belongs - in the National Enquirer; if we had any interest. Bill O'Reilly put the issue to rest two years ago on his show.

Has he answered it sufficiently for me - as long as it serves to keep the issue off the headlines and smug followers from displaying their arrogance it will have. So far, the President hasn't shown anything but arrogantly promoting it with the usual lapdog media feeding on the frenzy, further demonstrating their disingenuous attitude regarding putting the issue behind us all and reporting on the important issues.

There will always be those that will remain unconvinced of anything. Go ahead and revel in the idiocy if you think it helps. I don't think it does but the President obviously enjoys it - it won't prove endearing to him in the long run.

In addition, I don't think Trump is much of a Republican or understands politics in the least and especially goverment. His history of support has been for the Democrats. While I understand his fundamental transformation, fundamental transformation was the promise of Obama and he is very cryptic in his statements and his terms aren't clear. Who knew that funadamental transformation meant democrats would be abandoning the party as vociferously and defiantly as Donald Trump.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Pliny

[Pliny]

What are you talking about? First of all, I scarcely care about any of this, aside from the amusement factor; second of all, it is precisely the birthers et al themselves--the ones you said should remain front and centre with their "stupid" questions--who are keeping this stuff in the headlines.

Notably, Donald Trump (the man who has now claimed that "the world is destroying" America )...he has made it his business to keep this all front and centre, and you're on record defending the Great Man's honour.

I think you want it both ways.

Farenheit 911, a fairly shoddy movie in my opinion, made no claims about an "inside job" re 9/11.

And Moore is not one of my favourites; he's one of my least favourites. That is, I don't like him. I don't admire him; I don't generally agree with him.

But I appreciate your inventing opinions for me that I do not hold. It's really awesome.

Then we have found a point of agreement. But surely we aren't suggesting that this phenomenon is unique to the United States?

This is your usual "I never said any such thing in the first place" argument. The issue really isn't about you it's about the issue.

[bloodyminded]

This is your usual "I never said any such thing in the first place" argument. The issue really isn't about you it's about the issue.

Well, Christ on a cracker; you make declarative sentences about me that aren't true, and I point out they aren't true.

It's "usual" only because you have a fetish for saying things about me that aren't accurate.

[Pliny]

Well, Christ on a cracker; you make declarative sentences about me that aren't true, and I point out they aren't true.

It's "usual" only because you have a fetish for saying things about me that aren't accurate.

I wasn't talking about you in particular. Your proclivity is to exclude or include yourself in the left claiming neutrality and the centrist position at your convenience. You are obviously on the left side of this issue. Of course, you never claimed to be and I am just putting words in your mouth.

[Guest American Woman]

I wasn't talking about you in particular. Your proclivity is to exclude or include yourself in the left claiming neutrality and the centrist position at your convenience. You are obviously on the left side of this issue. Of course, you never claimed to be and I am just putting words in your mouth.

You were responding to his post, quoting him, saying "you" this/that/and the other thing in response, directed at him. Who was he to think you were talking about? His neighbor? Lefty Joe down the street? And if you were, what did any of it have to do with him? Why direct it at him? In particular.

[CANADIEN]

In this case, he should answer it so the MSM can leave it behind and doesn't have to constantly bray about it as if it were important.

He has. so why is it that you are not after the birthers for constantly bringing the issue to the forefront.

Has he answered it sufficiently for me - as long as it serves to keep the issue off the headlines and smug followers from displaying their arrogance it will have. So far, the President hasn't shown anything but arrogantly promoting it with the usual lapdog media feeding on the frenzy, further demonstrating their disingenuous attitude regarding putting the issue behind us all and reporting on the important issues.

And how exactly should he respond, pray tell. By not dignifying the whole stupity with an answer? He tried, didn't work. By producing documents that proves he is born American? He tried, didn't work.

You know full well that there is nothing that will stop this because the idiots won't ever be satisfied with any answer. And you will not be satisfied with any answer. Because Barack Obama can never do anything right in your eyes. Should he resign at this very second, you'd most likely complain and argue he should stay in power just so you can dislike him even more.

So do yourself a favour and drop the "it's Obama's fault". At least the birthers are entertaining. You're not.

[Pliny]

You were responding to his post, quoting him, saying "you" this/that/and the other thing in response, directed at him. Who was he to think you were talking about? His neighbor? Lefty Joe down the street? And if you were, what did any of it have to do with him? Why direct it at him? In particular.

I generally don't get personal in my crticisms and generally "you" is intended in the third person, in this case, "you" refers to the lib-left. BM takes exception to be included as a part of the lib-left and likes to point out that fact although he almost always supports the left viewpoint.

But Thank you for pointing this out. I'll remember it next time when I am in a discussion with BM.

[Pliny]

He has. so why is it that you are not after the birthers for constantly bringing the issue to the forefront.

They don't bring it to the forefront. They are a fringe element. You know that but the media, who brings it to the forefront, would have us beleive it is the whole right wing and it appears you lap it up.

And how exactly should he respond, pray tell. By not dignifying the whole stupity with an answer? He tried, didn't work. By producing documents that proves he is born American? He tried, didn't work.

He likes to mention once in awhile that people think he wasn't born in the US, and chuckle. Usually when the story drops on the back burner. Wouldn't want to lose sight of that one.

You know full well that there is nothing that will stop this because the idiots won't ever be satisfied with any answer. And you will not be satisfied with any answer. Because Barack Obama can never do anything right in your eyes. Should he resign at this very second, you'd most likely complain and argue he should stay in power just so you can dislike him even more.

So do yourself a favour and drop the "it's Obama's fault". At least the birthers are entertaining. You're not.

It's all about entertainment, isn't it?

Well, that questions's over now. Can we just forget it and ignore the jokes the media and the President have made and are currently making about it? Or have they not finished gloating about it? As though it was a serious issue in the first place. He got some mileage out of it but as I said it won't pay off in the long run. We can all laugh at idiots I suppose but I have never seen anyone enjoy it as much as Barack Obama seems to enjoy it.

[CANADIEN]

They don't bring it to the forefront. They are a fringe element. You know that but the media, who brings it to the forefront, would have us beleive it is the whole right wing and it appears you lap it up.

Actually, I don't. Why would I believe something that stupid?

But feel free to believe that it will drop of the radar and be relagated to the National Inquirer if only Obama shuts up. I don't.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Well, that questions's over now. Can we just forget it and ignore the jokes the media and the President have made and are currently making about it? Or have they not finished gloating about it? As though it was a serious issue in the first place. He got some mileage out of it but as I said it won't pay off in the long run. We can all laugh at idiots I suppose but I have never seen anyone enjoy it as much as Barack Obama seems to enjoy it.

There is more to it than simple enjoyment...what you are witnessing is the beginning of the Obama/Biden campaign for 2012. He has taken a perceived political liability and turned it upside down for advantage. Most Americans can relate to a birth certificate and/or certificate of live birth at a personal level, so it works quite well. All that was missing were his little infant footprints in black ink! Contrast this with forged military service documents that Dan Rather and his CBS producer (Mary Mapes) paraded against President Bush, who could not redirect with such comical aplomb.

Several states have pending legislation to prove natural born citizenship for presidential candidates, and frankly, I'm surprised it hasn't been required before, along with the minimum 35 year age requirement.

[Moonlight Graham]

There is more to it than simple enjoyment...what you are witnessing is the beginning of the Obama/Biden campaign for 2012. He has taken a perceived political liability and turned it upside down for advantage.

Agreed. They saw this would remain an issue in the 2012 campaign, so they nipped it in the bud. Issue over, except for the obsessed conspiracy types.